Alphadawg7 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 10 hours ago, NewEra said: I hear ya. I can’t answer for the Op because I’m not him, but I just think that “both” is the answer that he doesn’t want.....or he would’ve included it. He most likely didn’t include both because it wasn’t what he was looking for. The reason I feel that McD is more influential: he was the bigger influencer in changing the culture and mind set in the locker room. the problem I have with “both”: that’s like saying every coach/GM combo has equal influence on a teams success. I don’t believe that to be true in the least. Considering your bolded statement below, you’re saying that there’s no way to compare the two. There have been several teams that had great coaching and a bad gm and vice versa. I don’t think in every case, the coach and GM had equal influence. Who was more influential on the 2016 Kc chiefs, Andy Reid or John Dorsey.? Both? Because they do different things and can’t be compared linearly, that doesn’t mean that one isn’t more influential. It means that we have no way to prove it either way. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have an opinion on the matter. If you think, the HC and GM have the same influence on building every team, you’re entitled to that opinion. I disagree. I do agree that there isn’t a science to it and it can’t be proven. I already said that a HC has more influence to a degree, and the ceiling in that is low. Changing the culture is hugely important, but it only gets you so far if the talent and right players aren’t in the locker room. The question was about getting the Bills to this point. IMO we are far beyond an “over achieving” team and have a very talented roster that McD is also developing and coaching well. That takes a GM getting the right pieces. Not every situation is the same. What if a new HC comes in along with a GM and that team already had a strong roster and had been underachieving? Well then, clearly the coach would be more impactful as the rosters was largely there and needed a coaching change. But we were a total rebuild both with roster and the cap. And that is a different animal. It took both great coaching and a great GM to get to where we are. And I don’t think Buffalo is where it’s at if you remove either one of Beane or McD and to do so is marginalizing the other which I don’t think is fair. So still stand by my original answer that both had a huge impact and it’s not really possible to quantify whose was bigger. We don’t know how much influence McD had over roster decisions, draft picks etc. What we are told is that they worked as a team every step of the way in shaping this roster, creating the right culture, etc...and again points to both being equally important.
PrimeTime101 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 BOTH McD Tells GM what he wants specifically and the GM gets it.. I say Both.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 10 hours ago, NewEra said: I hear ya. I can’t answer for the Op because I’m not him, but I just think that “both” is the answer that he doesn’t want.....or he would’ve included it. He most likely didn’t include both because it wasn’t what he was looking for. The reason I feel that McD is more influential: he was the bigger influencer in changing the culture and mind set in the locker room. the problem I have with “both”: that’s like saying every coach/GM combo has equal influence on a teams success. I don’t believe that to be true in the least. Considering your bolded statement below, you’re saying that there’s no way to compare the two. There have been several teams that had great coaching and a bad gm and vice versa. I don’t think in every case, the coach and GM had equal influence. Who was more influential on the 2016 Kc chiefs, Andy Reid or John Dorsey.? Both? Because they do different things and can’t be compared linearly, that doesn’t mean that one isn’t more influential. It means that we have no way to prove it either way. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have an opinion on the matter. If you think, the HC and GM have the same influence on building every team, you’re entitled to that opinion. I disagree. I do agree that there isn’t a science to it and it can’t be proven. NOTE: I agree maybe my initial response sounded too snarky, so I went back and edited it. I like the OP @Beerball overall and didn’t mean it to sound snarky. I just feel like there are plenty of times where Beane doesn’t get enough credit or McD doesn’t get enough credit. I mean people were talking about firing McD and/or Beane multiple times this year after a loss, even the AZ loss. So when I saw this poll my reaction was more about they both deserve the credit as they were each critical to getting us to where we are today. 1
NewEra Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: NOTE: I agree maybe my initial response sounded too snarky, so I went back and edited it. I like the OP @Beerball overall and didn’t mean it to sound snarky. I just feel like there are plenty of times where Beane doesn’t get enough credit or McD doesn’t get enough credit. I mean people were talking about firing McD and/or Beane multiple times this year after a loss, even the AZ loss. So when I saw this poll my reaction was more about they both deserve the credit as they were each critical to getting us to where we are today. I feel that they are both loved by Billsmafia. Certain posters can’t help but be their negative selves. I’m confidant that both are highly thought of by us, the league and the media. Don’t fret when some Nancy’s show themselves
SinceThe70s Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 I root for two teams that were pretty bad for a long time but turned it around recently. The Bills went with a young unproven coach and GM. The Islanders went with a coach and GM with proven track records. In both cases I feel like there's a shared vision and mutual respect between the two. That's a good place to be and I hope both teams can maintain their upward trajectory with stability at coach and GM. I'm actually most concerned about Lamoriello's age but that's a topic for an Islanders board.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 22 hours ago, wjag said: I went with Beane. Caveat, there was no choice for both. This is like picking your left foot over your right foot. Football is an enterprise and each performs their function in that enterprise. zactly why I didn’t vote one or the other 1 Bring in the right talent ( with HC input) 2 HC has to get the best out of the team
Bob in STL Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 23 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I think what makes their relationship work is I don't think Beane has an ego. McDermott tells Beane what he needs and Beane understands it....McDermott trusts him. Beane does the homework and McDermott gives the thumbs up or thumbs down. Terry Pegula is Don Vito. Sean McDermott is Sonny Corleone. Brandon Beane is Tom Hagen. Don and Sonny don't die in this fictional comparison. Can Daboll be Fat Clemenza?
Bob in STL Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 In this situation they are pretty much equal but I picked Beane as more influential because he is responsible for the bringing in talent. McD can tell him what he wants and needs but if Beane cannot deliver it then McD is stuck. Example: McD - “ Hey Beane we need a franchise QB, Tyrod is limited.” Beane - “ Agree, I think we have a good shot at Josh Rosen, an all American that played in the PAC 10”.
Lfod Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) McDermott was in the building first and is obviously the guy that gets the credit or takes the fall. If you can't tell who runs the show I don't know what to tell you. Edited December 12, 2020 by Lfod 1
ghostwriter Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 The 2017 NFL draft was all McDermott.. So Tre Day, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano were all his choices.. Whaley was pretty much a glorified scout at that time and McDermott was the matter de facto GM.. Think McDermott clearly understands defense at a far greater level than Beane.. So I think as far as our defensive acquisitions goes, McD is caesar.. Also guys like Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer etc were all McD choices .. As far as offense goes, I think Beane is responsible for Josh Allen, Cole Beasley, John Brown, Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, Mitch Morse, Daryl Williams, Cody Ford and Jon Feliciano.. So I think it really depends on the player.. I think these two respect each other greatly and it’s a concerted effort however..
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 God. I wanna thank the Big Guy! Thank God!
Royale with Cheese Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 52 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: Can Daboll be Fat Clemenza? Without a doubt. The gun will be there. 1
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 Interesting quote below from today's BN article on Beane. To me the answer to this question is both. McD needs to understand what the team needs, but Beane needs to figure out how to get it and how to pay for it within the framework they have. And alot goes into comments below Beane is already thinking about next year, but MCd needs to be on board with changes too and be moving in that direction. This may be why last two weeks both Kroft and Murphy were inactive. Can we talk about this guy, getting him in more in lineup because we need to develop him because we’re not going to be able to pay this other player? We can talk about the cap and where I see it going in the offseason. Sometimes it’s play a player to see if this guy has it. If he doesn’t, let’s find out now before we go into the offseason.
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) This is Sean McDermott's ship. I believe he and Beane are aligned, McDermott trusts him and he and Beane have a strong enough relationship that they can disagree and find a resolution. But if it came down to a row and one of them had to win.... and the Pegulas were asked to choose.... Coach McDermott is the captain of the boat. The Bills sail as he commands. Edited December 12, 2020 by GunnerBill
Buddo Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 Why is nobody mentioning the Pegulas? This isn't about the fact that they bought the Bills. It's about how they have supported McDermott and Beane, with their Assistants, Scouts, FO people etc.etc. All of which doesn't come out of the Cap. The additional investment in state of the art training and medical facilities also. Tbh, if Beane hadn't been as successful as he is, then I'm sure that MDermott would have been retained if Beane was 'let go'. In the future, I believe they will stand or fall together.
TPS Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 It's hard to separate these guys....I think this is a pic of them when they were in Carolina....(Sean still had hair)
Don Otreply Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 The GMs job is the building of the team, albeit with input from his staff, the talent scouts, the HC and the O and D Coordinators. Not necessarily in that order of course. It is on the GM to get player that are in keeping with team needs and the financial parameters of the team. It is a group effort, though in the end, the responsibility falls on the GMs shoulders, so he gets the final call. That’s how I see it happening in Buffalo.
Magox Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 I honestly believe it's very 50/50 ish. I think they share the same wave length but ultimately I have to go with Sean if I had to choose. Sean was the one who chose Beane, therefore he gets the nod. But what Beane did by unloading all the overpriced "talent" that were all underperforming and that did not fit in to their vision, despite from the teeth gnashing from some of the resident "experts" of this board and frankly from some of the fan base, they did it anyway. And you know what? They were right and the amateur "experts" were wrong. They built this team and organization about as good as anyone could have possibly have dreamt. This isn't just a flash in the pan team, this is a strong organization that's future looks very bright moving forward. What a home run selection with McD who then hit it out of the park with Beane!
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