Mike Tomlin over or underrated

[Slack_in_MA]

I think he's properly-rated.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

First few years I thought he was overrated .. but last season may have been his absolute best coaching effort. This season, notwithstanding the 11-1 record, he has been ok. not elite not crappy - but decent

 

 

This, with the exception of your last sentence. I think getting this team to 11-1 has been doing a terrific job. They're not as good as that record would make them seem. He's changed the way Roethlisberger operates, and absolutely maximized him as he gets older.

 

Agreed that early in his career he seemed overrated. But he handled guys who have later proved unhandleable. He integrated Antonio Brown into a team. Got them through last year as a respectable team.

 

He's really really good, in a non-flashy way.

[GunnerBill]

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

[Rochesterfan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

 

Perfectly well put.

 

I think he is a phenomenal leader and motivator of players.  He gets just about the most you can out of guys and somehow kept some very strong negative personalities in line for years.  Year in and year out he finds ways to win - even when his team is less talented or missing key guys.

 

The flip side is I think his coordinators and his game day X’s and O’s are not as good as many other coaches - his teams tend to out physical and out emotion the opponent and in games against great coaches (see NE) that was not always enough.  He also struggled against Baltimore another team that tends to be ultra physical and emotional, but Harbaugh brings something to the X&O party.

 

When you get down to it - he trusts his players and asks a lot of them and more often they deliver - therefore in whatever way you want to measure he is a good/great coach - I do not think he is elite (few are), but if let go - he should be snapped up immediately by a team looking to take the next step.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

Perfectly well put.

 

I think he is a phenomenal leader and motivator of players.  He gets just about the most you can out of guys and somehow kept some very strong negative personalities in line for years.  Year in and year out he finds ways to win - even when his team is less talented or missing key guys.

 

The flip side is I think his coordinators and his game day X’s and O’s are not as good as many other coaches - his teams tend to out physical and out emotion the opponent and in games against great coaches (see NE) that was not always enough.  He also struggled against Baltimore another team that tends to be ultra physical and emotional, but Harbaugh brings something to the X&O party.

 

When you get down to it - he trusts his players and asks a lot of them and more often they deliver - therefore in whatever way you want to measure he is a good/great coach - I do not think he is elite (few are), but if let go - he should be snapped up immediately by a team looking to take the next step.

 

Oh if Mike Tomlin was fired it would be an Andy Reid situation. He would be hired by another team before he had chance to pack up his office.

[Billy Claude]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

 

 

Wasn't this what they said about Andy Reid before he won the last Super Bowl -- i.e.., that he was a very good coach but would always get out-coached in the big games?

 

[wjag]

Two things about Pittsburgh.  They always find great defensive players. And somehow they find good WRs too.  

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

he's a darn good coach. has kept the steelers respectable during his tenure. I don't think he is either over or under rated but respected for what he has done.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Wasn't this what they said about Andy Reid before he won the last Super Bowl -- i.e.., that he was a very good coach but would always get out-coached in the big games?

 

 

And Tomlin already has a Superbowl. I think the questions were different though. I think everyone knew Andy Reid could do the Xs and Os the question were things around game management. While there is a bit of that with Tomlin I think the bigger question is can he devise a specific gameplan for a specific opponent. I always think his teams fall more in the "we are gonna line up and do what we do and try and do it better than you do what you do" category.

[Scott7975]

I think he is a good coach. The team always plays hard. They went 8-8 with a guy named Duck. Yes I know he didn't play them all. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Scott7975

[Gugny]

I've always been a Tomlin fan and I consider him a great coach without hesitation.  

[CLTbills]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

Seems like they inexplicably hate their team. It's a little strange to me.

 

First time on Two Bills Drive?

[Billy Claude]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And Tomlin already has a Superbowl. I think the questions were different though. I think everyone knew Andy Reid could do the Xs and Os the question were things around game management. While there is a bit of that with Tomlin I think the bigger question is can he devise a specific gameplan for a specific opponent. I always think his teams fall more in the "we are gonna line up and do what we do and try and do it better than you do what you do" category.

 

Slightly unfair -- since Tomlin came from the defense side he not as involved in the Xs and Os that are more obvious to fans.

 

Of course his defense gave up 45 and 36 points in the last two playoff losses so that doesn't help.

[Mr. WEO]

I'll take the over.  

 

He was handed a stacked SB team, HOF QB, etc.

 

I don't see why a young team with much less talent would hire him.  Is he a great strategist?  A great game planner?  Developer of talent?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Is he a great strategist? 

No

A great game planner? 

No

Developer of talent?

Yes, absolutely.

 

Agree on the strategy and gameplanning and that is what goes against him, but absolutely he is a developer of talent. Steelers are constantly drafting and developing. He has done a great job of that hence even after the team he inherited crumbled he has rebuilt two other generations of the Steelers. I'd say leadership is his #1 quality. Developing talent I'd put #2.

 

He is not the best Xs and Os guy. There is no dispute about that and it keeps him out of that top rank. But the Saints have had losing seasons with Brees. Green Bay have had losing seasons with Rodgers. The Steelers have never had one with Ben and didn't even have one without Ben. An average coach doesn't achieve that. Tomlin is a good football coach. He isn't a great one but he is a good one.

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

Fans are stupid a lot of the time, as we all know.... who said this; if you take the fan’s advice you will soon be sitting with them.... 

[oldmanfan]

Underrated.  Great leader, handles team dynamics well.  And a good winning record.

[Mr. WEO]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree on the strategy and gameplanning and that is what goes against him, but absolutely he is a developer of talent. Steelers are constantly drafting and developing. He has done a great job of that hence even after the team he inherited crumbled he has rebuilt two other generations of the Steelers. I'd say leadership is his #1 quality. Developing talent I'd put #2.

 

He is not the best Xs and Os guy. There is no dispute about that and it keeps him out of that top rank. But the Saints have had losing seasons with Brees. Green Bay have had losing seasons with Rodgers. The Steelers have never had one with Ben and didn't even have one without Ben. An average coach doesn't achieve that. Tomlin is a good football coach. He isn't a great one but he is a good one.

 

He had back to back 8-8 seasons (after back to back 12 wins) --one with a #1 Defense, as well as Big Ben (he was 7-6), AB, Emmanuel Sanders and Mike Wallace.

 

True, "no losing seasons", but had they gone 7-9 in any of those seasons, I don't think it changes the conversation much. 

 

Good coach yes--more of a staff manager and motivator with a solid FO and scouting setting up the roster.  In game, his major contribution seems to be glaring at opponents and refs.  That's why I went with "over".

[Freddie's Dead]

Mike Tomlin will always be my hero because of this (he called the Cheats out loud and clear on their cheating):

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is one of the best leaders in the NFL and I am on record as saying I think that is the single biggest quality you want in a Head Coach. He is also onto basically his third team in Pit, he has taken them to two Superbowls and won one. That said for much of the last decade they couldn't get past New England despite equal if not great talent in many of those years. However, last year was a hell of a coaching job and I even think this year getting this team to 11-0 (I know their schedule was not the toughest) is a significant achievement. He hasn't had a losing season in 14 years in the job. That is pretty great.

 

My take is he is just below the very top rung of NFL coaches - Belichick, Harbaugh, Reid and Payton. He sits in that next bucket somewhere with Pete Carroll as a great leader, with the numbers to back it up.... but who you just feel when it gets down to the Xs and Os can be outdone.

Agree 100 percent with this. This is what I’ve always said about him. Managing NFL personalities is the most underrated part of the job, and it ain’t easy—a lot of players are borderline psychos (the sport draws that type). He is great at it.

Edited December 11, 2020 by dave mcbride