Canceling student loans

[Backintheday544]

58 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

To reimagine the PPP program as similar to Student Loan forgiveness under the Biden proposal requires both a manipulator, and someone easily manipulated.  It would be interesting to engage in dialogue with a manipulator, sadly all we have here are the dupes who are easily manipulated. 
 

You hit key points about the government locking down the economy under threat of criminal and civil penalty, and the havoc that created for most businesses and employees not given special dispensation to thrive.  
 

The PPP program was designed to keep people working, or at least keep paychecks moving to the masses.  
 

To qualify, a business owner filled out an application and provided documentation to support the request.  If approved, a loan was offered based on need and payment disbursed. 
 

If, after meeting the terms and conditions of the program, the business owner met the requirements of PPP, the loan converted to a grant.  
 

If terms and conditions were not met, the loan did not convert and as I recall, repayment was due within 12 months.  
 

The most vital element of the program was keeping employees employed while the govt kept society and the economy locked down. Failure to do so resulted in repayment terms that might be considered predatory if offered by a private bank. 
 

So, successful navigation of the PPP landscape required strict compliance with term and payments as dictated by the government.  
 

Student loan forgiveness, for better or worse, approve of it or not, invalidates terms and conditions of the loan based on the political whims of the party in charge to the level the debt is discharged.  
 

In what can only be described as a tragically ironic scenario, individuals who made their student loan payments during the COVID lockdown may not actually have benefited from the PPP program, and those benefiting from PPP may actually have allowed their student loan debt to grow in anticipation of the Biden buy out. 
 

 

I disagree with several points you make on PPP.

 

1. there were not need based requirements for PPP1. PPP2 did have a drop in gross receipts of 25 percent requirement. 
 

2. PPP has a requirement that just 60 percent of the funds go to wages (including owner wages). The other 40 percent  could go towards items such as rent, mortgage, etc. So the PPP did in fact pay mortgages and expressly allowed for them to be used for mortgage payments.

 

3. You bring in the shut downs but in states where there were no shut downs, people still received PPP loans. Florida for example brags about not being shut down, yet Matt Gaetz had $482,000 in PPP loans forgiven.

[LeviF]

Am I to understand that it's bad, actually, that people cooperated with the government to ensure they could pay their employees? That a cash passthrough that was effectively another means by which to administer unemployment payments and keep businesses from shuttering after forced closures, with defined forgiveness parameters from the outset, is worthy of mockery?

[Doc]

Just vote buying.  Which will fail in court.

[Chef Jim]

4 hours ago, LeviF said:

Am I to understand that it's bad, actually, that people cooperated with the government to ensure they could pay their employees? That a cash passthrough that was effectively another means by which to administer unemployment payments and keep businesses from shuttering after forced closures, with defined forgiveness parameters from the outset, is worthy of mockery?

When you have nothing else…..yeah.  

I didn’t even want to address the idiotic comparison. I considered the source and moved on. 

[Tiberius]

 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

And there it is! Play the race card. Figures. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And there it is! Play the race card. Figures. 

Did you go to college? 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Did you go to college? 

Yes….did you? 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes….did you? 

UB 

[Chef Jim]

Ok so this may exclude some of you but let's look at this logically.  

 

This is nothing but smoke and mirrors or a shell game.  Take your pick.  The money being forgiven has already been spent by the Universities on Champagne and caviar. All this is is the Feds erasing the amounts off the governments Accounts Receivable part of their balance sheet if they had one.  Which of course they don't so it's just piled on the deficit.  So will this help with inflation?  Nope.  I know no one said it would but inflation is the biggest concern today, as is should be, and adding to the deficit at this time is a bad idea.  

 

So let's dig into this a bit deeper.  The ONLY people that will benefit from this are "lower" income people with student loan debt.  Hey good for them.  But how about little Mary and Jonny who are in 10th grade and need to fund THEIR college in a few yearS.  How does this help them?  Well of course it doesn't. They'll be forced into the skyrocketing cost of college.  THIS DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM!   This is just a stupid way for the government to think it's doing good when all it's doing is.....well it's doing NOTHING.

 

Carry on kids. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Chef Jim

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, BillStime said:

Really no different than the Pegulas - billionaires - getting a huge handout from the state for our new stadium. No one here is crying about that 

 

This is patently false.  I have complained a lot about these sweetheart deals where billionaires are given tax payer money to build THEIR place of bidness.  And I think this loan forgiveness is lame.  Somehow Robert Kraft was able to build his without taxpayer money.  Terry has more than money than Kraft does.

 

According to your logic this is all well and good since we now have student loan legalized welching.

 

Everything thing is not either/or.

Edited August 26, 2022 by reddogblitz

[Chef Jim]

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

I disagree with several points you make on PPP.

 

1. there were not need based requirements for PPP1. PPP2 did have a drop in gross receipts of 25 percent requirement. 
 

2. PPP has a requirement that just 60 percent of the funds go to wages (including owner wages). The other 40 percent  could go towards items such as rent, mortgage, etc. So the PPP did in fact pay mortgages and expressly allowed for them to be used for mortgage payments.

 

3. You bring in the shut downs but in states where there were no shut downs, people still received PPP loans. Florida for example brags about not being shut down, yet Matt Gaetz had $482,000 in PPP loans forgiven.

I'm not sure what you think we disagree on.  I didn't suggest there was a pure 'needs based' requirement for PPP, though I'd think when the government shuts the economy down and places restrictions on just about everything, then comes up with a relief plan to keep the economy afloat, it's pretty obvious a needs-based plan. 

 

PPP is an acronym for Paycheck Protection Program.  If you want to argue that point, that it's not a program designed to protect paychecks, have at it, but it's silly.  It's interesting that you included "owners" like it's some sort of hidden, under the radar part of the program. Owners get paychecks, too, and things like "rent, mortgage etc" are part of the cost of running a business.   When paychecks covered under the PPP program were issued to employees, the employees receiving the paycheck presumably used the funds for similar expenses.  

 

PPP is a federal program, not a state program.  "Florida" has nothing to do with it.  That said, if you believe businesses in Florida were not impacted by COVID, you haven't been paying attention.  As for Matt Gaetz qualifying, or not, what does that have to do with anything other than you not liking Matt Gaetz?  

 

The original point was that comparing PPP rules and regs to Joe Biden's student loan debt scheme.  It's a foolish comparison. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

UB 

Go Bulls? And did you pay for it? Or did you pay off any loans you took out? I know I did. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Go Bulls? And did you pay for it? Or did you pay off any loans you took out? I know I did. 

USAF paid my way...until graduate school and I paid that off. 

[Albwan]

deadbeats should just pay their debts. biden is a crooked socialist *&^%.

[Tenhigh]

40 minutes ago, Albwan said:

deadbeats should just pay their debts. biden is a crooked socialist *&^%.

This is a good old fashioned political bribe, plain and simple, nothing to do with socialism. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

USAF paid my way...until graduate school and I paid that off. 

Well done. So I’m going to assume that like me you believe this current debt forgiveness proposal has to be one the absolute worst ideas ever thrown at the proverbial wall. 

[SoCal Deek]

This may have been asked and answered but is this a one time forgiveness or are they proposing that EVERYONE from now on gets a free $10,000 head start on college? 

[Backintheday544]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I'm not sure what you think we disagree on.  I didn't suggest there was a pure 'needs based' requirement for PPP, though I'd think when the government shuts the economy down and places restrictions on just about everything, then comes up with a relief plan to keep the economy afloat, it's pretty obvious a needs-based plan. 

 

PPP is an acronym for Paycheck Protection Program.  If you want to argue that point, that it's not a program designed to protect paychecks, have at it, but it's silly.  It's interesting that you included "owners" like it's some sort of hidden, under the radar part of the program. Owners get paychecks, too, and things like "rent, mortgage etc" are part of the cost of running a business.   When paychecks covered under the PPP program were issued to employees, the employees receiving the paycheck presumably used the funds for similar expenses.  

 

PPP is a federal program, not a state program.  "Florida" has nothing to do with it.  That said, if you believe businesses in Florida were not impacted by COVID, you haven't been paying attention.  As for Matt Gaetz qualifying, or not, what does that have to do with anything other than you not liking Matt Gaetz?  

 

The original point was that comparing PPP rules and regs to Joe Biden's student loan debt scheme.  It's a foolish comparison. 

Just using your words here:

 

Needs based: “If approved, a loan was offered based on need and payment disbursed.” Using the term based on need really sounds like it’s needs based.

 

Yes we know what PPP is an acronym for. So now we just trust the government naming of things? I guess we can all agree the Inflation Reduction Act reduces inflation.

 

Yes, PPP is a Federal program, but your point was “The most vital element of the program was keeping employees employed while the govt kept society and the economy locked down. Failure to do so resulted in repayment terms that might be considered predatory if offered by a private bank.” If Florida didn’t keep society and the economy locked down as you put. So why should a Florida person such as Gaetz get bailed out with over $400,000?  We can use another Florida person Tom Brady, had $1,000,000 of PPP loans forgiven. His net worth is over $400,000,000.

 

If these Republicans don’t believe in the government forgiving loans, they could have just paid back the PPP loans. There is no requirement to ask the government for forgiveness.

 

PPP loans and the student loans are both loans made by the government to US persons. Both have forgiveness aspects built in. The business owners used the legislation to get their forgiveness. The President used his power to grant forgiveness on those loans.

 

If looking at policy, I’d much rather have the government give $300 billion to people making under $125,000 then the huge amounts of PPP money that went to people like Brady and Gaetz who could have used their personal assets to keep their company going (assuming there was even a going concern issue).