BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Your insults are laughable. Yes, I know who Trey Hendrickson is. I knew who he was in college. I didn’t scout him and I didn’t have a strong opinion on him......tell me again.....why are you bringing up Trey Hendrickson? So you can talk smack about the trade up for Zay Jones while patting yourself on the back for scouting a DE? What does he have to do with the Bills? He has nothing to do with this discussion. He is relevant here......only in your imagination. You only brought him up so you can try and demean me while putting yourself on a pedestal. Congrats on being right about Hendrickson. Want a cookie? Way to go off tangent so you can brag about something that nobody gives a rats *** about. Get over yourself. It’s embarrassing Yep.....I wanted a QB. guess what......I was wrong. try it some time. you might gain some respect around here. Respect not based on what you know. Respect based on who you are. 1) Your insinuation is that without the Bills getting a 5th round pick for Gillislee they couldn't have had as much success in the draft.......my point is that they totally wasted two much earlier picks on Zay Jones. A LOTTA things have to happen by the 5th round. I mean, are you one of those revisionist "what were we thinking drafting Leif Larson with Tom Brady on the board!?" people? 2) Yes you were wrong. And you got mad and insulted me when you read my opinion. The proper response to that isn't "guess what.......I was wrong".......it's "I apologize......I was wrong". Honestly I laugh this stuff off and there really is no better response to false narratives/straw men/misremembered takes than laughing at it. But if TSW had to donate a dollar to Oishei Children's Hospital for every time a person first made contact with me here to insult me personally for a football take in the past 22 years...........SDS would have a unit named after him.
BillsVet Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Having $30M in cap space isn't much.........so getting $10M-$15M wiggle room isn't much, Doc. And yes, it's a big issue in 2022.........but in 2021 they will no longer have the options they had in the past two offseasons with $80M in cap space..........things like letting two $10M players go at a position and replacing them with three $8M players...........they are actually going to have to start bringing up depth players to replace proven guys like Milano and Williams and finding some diamonds. Their OL has basically 5 veteran free agent level paid players........their 3 man WR corp are all big dollars........and their starting secondary are all $6M plus players. That kind of excess is not sustainable. They aren't even paying the QB yet and they are up against it so as @Coach Tuesday said........they are going to have to get more efficient. Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster. Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt. As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult. And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed. Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks. It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility. 3
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster. Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt. As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult. And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed. Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks. It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility. How they BUILT this team is not a method that they will have the ability to sustain. Beane has spent and spent and spent in free agency the past 3 offseasons and it's gotten them here but now they gotta' make like the Steelers and Patriots have done for a decade. Find players to fill roles cheaply. The Steelers do it by drafting and developing at a high level. The Patriots have done it despite poor early drafting by having unusual success from late picks, UDFA's and cheap free agents.
NewEra Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Your insinuation is that without the Bills getting a 5th round pick for Gillislee they couldn't have had as much success in the draft.......my point is that they totally wasted two much earlier picks on Zay Jones. A LOTTA things have to happen by the 5th round. I mean, are you one of those revisionist "what were we thinking drafting Leif Larson with Tom Brady on the board!?" people? 2) Yes you were wrong. And you got mad and insulted me when you read my opinion. The proper response to that isn't "guess what.......I was wrong".......it's "I apologize......I was wrong". Honestly I laugh this stuff off and there really is no better response to false narratives/straw men/misremembered takes than laughing at it. But if TSW had to donate a dollar to Oishei Children's Hospital for every time a person first made contact with me here to insult me personally for a football take in the past 22 years...........SDS would have a unit named after him. My insinuation is that letting Gillislee go for a 5th rd pick was a good move for the franchise. You can make up w/e other nonsense you want. I was wrong....and it wasn’t a big deal. Why? Because being wrong is part of life and I’m ok with being wrong. I don’t claim to be all knowing. I live and I learn. is it an insult to say that you can’t admit when you’re wrong? You might be insulted by the notion. Insulted by the truth. There’s a reason people view you in a certain light. In you’re opinion, it’s their fault. Their fault because they are soft and sensitive. In reality, it’s yours. And we all know why. continue on
ghostwriter Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 32 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster. Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt. As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult. And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed. Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks. It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility. Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well.. 1
Doc Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Having $30M in cap space isn't much.........so getting $10M-$15M wiggle room isn't much, Doc. And yes, it's a big issue in 2022.........but in 2021 they will no longer have the options they had in the past two offseasons with $80M in cap space..........things like letting two $10M players go at a position and replacing them with three $8M players...........they are actually going to have to start bringing up depth players to replace proven guys like Milano and Williams and finding some diamonds. Their OL has basically 5 veteran free agent level paid players........their 3 man WR corp are all big dollars........and their starting secondary are all $6M plus players. That kind of excess is not sustainable. They aren't even paying the QB yet and they are up against it so as @Coach Tuesday said........they are going to have to get more efficient. Well the good thing is that the Bills don't have the needs in 2021 that they've have the past 2 off-seasons. They also have quite a few contracts they can off-load without too much loss of talent. As an extreme example, the Bills could release Butler, Jefferson, Addison, Matakevich, Brown and Morse and save $37.45M on the cap. They can pick and choose who from among that list can be cut, asked to take a pay cut or extended. The biggest question is do you keep Milano, and if not, what do you do to replace him? 13 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well.. Yup. GMs have to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go all the time. Especially if they have a huge money QB. It's not limited to just Beane. Edited December 13, 2020 by Doc
Saxum Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 4 hours ago, NewEra said: He was in the front office in the early 2000s. He goes by the name of Tom Donahoe. He knows his stuff, but his ego got in the way. He does look good wearing a paper bag and it is likely as close as he gets to being Tom Donahoe in terms of knowledge and ego.
NewEra Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I didn't advocate a long term contract or a even starting job for Mike Gillislee. It's laughable that folks like you try to cherry pick the tiny fact that I was in favor of placing an earlier round, cheap, ONE YEAR tender on a very productive RB. We can't unwatch the 2017-2018 Bills offenses.........putrid............for stretches some of the worst offense in the history of the franchise. Fortunately 4 seasons later we are finally producing on that side of the ball again..........and now a lot of the pro-tankers like you who loved the late game drama of offensively anemic Jauron Ball........are suddenly appreciative of good offensive football. 😆 You harped on it quite a bit. If you didn’t, I wouldn’t bring it up. I looked for the archive but couldn’t find it on my phone. anyways, I’ll buy you a beer at the super bowl if we’re allowed in. Go Bills! 2 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well.. Agreed. Not at 13+ mill. I’d take him at 8 though.
BillsVet Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: How they BUILT this team is not a method that they will have the ability to sustain. Beane has spent and spent and spent in free agency the past 3 offseasons and it's gotten them here but now they gotta' make like the Steelers and Patriots have done for a decade. Find players to fill roles cheaply. The Steelers do it by drafting and developing at a high level. The Patriots have done it despite poor early drafting by having unusual success from late picks, UDFA's and cheap free agents. Right....and it'll mean being efficient with picks in rounds 3-4 at the harder to find positions. RBs in the 3rd round aren't going to cut it anymore. UFA has bought Beane time to develop younger players behind the veterans. Now the real work for that front office of "future GM" candidates begins. Whatever the method for remaining competitive, be it the NE or Pittsburgh way, the onus remains on the amateur scouting people. 2
Heitz Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) If nothing else this thread proves that TBD is gonna TBD. Edited December 13, 2020 by Heitz
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 10 hours ago, NewEra said: You harped on it quite a bit. If you didn’t, I wouldn’t bring it up. I looked for the archive but couldn’t find it on my phone. I harped on Gillislee being given a few hundred K higher tender the same way I have harped on being OK with extending Beane but thinking he needs to be more efficient. It was basically all in one thread and a bunch of people mincing my words, creating false narratives and straw man arguments because they were outraged that I was being critical of a decision. My logic was that I was thrilled that we had a backfield that averaged 5.5 yards per carry and that trying to turn McCoy back into a 250-300 carry back again was a bad idea. And it was. He ended up dropping a stunning 1.5 ypc in production to well below league average per carry. A good bit of that was on Dennison and his system........but he also took a beating that season that proved to be the end of his usefulness as a semi-regular NFL RB. It was a truly ugly offensive season.
BillsVet Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Doc said: Well the good thing is that the Bills don't have the needs in 2021 that they've have the past 2 off-seasons. They also have quite a few contracts they can off-load without too much loss of talent. As an extreme example, the Bills could release Butler, Jefferson, Addison, Matakevich, Brown and Morse and save $37.45M on the cap. They can pick and choose who from among that list can be cut, asked to take a pay cut or extended. The biggest question is do you keep Milano, and if not, what do you do to replace him? Yup. GMs have to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go all the time. Especially if they have a huge money QB. It's not limited to just Beane. Let's say you cut any of those players mentioned. Now tell us who's coming as their replacement? McD gotta have his DL rotation and at last count it was 51M in 2020 without most of Star's contract. OK. Who replaces Brown at the Z? Or a new center for Morse? And don't say they'll find someone in the draft. That looks awfully similar to the RW years where the draft was used to replace departed veterans and that never worked. Besides, the UFAs you've noted where all signed since 2019. Without some strategic changes to roster building and personnel assessment, they'll keep going down the road of finding types that are a bridge to nowhere, i.e. there's no initial contract type player to step in. There aren't many perennial playoff teams, but the ones who do have an advantage on draft day/UDFA and/or can attract low cost talent in UFA. Buffalo isn't there yet, but if they hope to be it'll be on the back of one of those other methods not signing veterans to market rate contracts. And if you keep trying that method, as @BADOLBILZ noted, it'll show up eventually in the cap balances because you don't cut your way out of that problem.
NewEra Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I harped on Gillislee being given a few hundred K higher tender the same way I have harped on being OK with extending Beane but thinking he needs to be more efficient. It was basically all in one thread and a bunch of people mincing my words, creating false narratives and straw man arguments because they were outraged that I was being critical of a decision. My logic was that I was thrilled that we had a backfield that averaged 5.5 yards per carry and that trying to turn McCoy back into a 250-300 carry back again was a bad idea. And it was. He ended up dropping a stunning 1.5 ypc in production to well below league average per carry. A good bit of that was on Dennison and his system........but he also took a beating that season that proved to be the end of his usefulness as a semi-regular NFL RB. It was a truly ugly offensive season. You were critical of the move. If you were in charge, you would’ve sign Gillislee and not had Milano. You lose. Bad decision 1
Coach Tuesday Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, NewEra said: You were critical of the move. If you were in charge, you would’ve sign Gillislee and not had Milano. You lose. Bad decision This thread seems to have become personal for you.
Doc Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: Let's say you cut any of those players mentioned. Now tell us who's coming as their replacement? McD gotta have his DL rotation and at last count it was 51M in 2020 without most of Star's contract. OK. Who replaces Brown at the Z? Or a new center for Morse? And don't say they'll find someone in the draft. That looks awfully similar to the RW years where the draft was used to replace departed veterans and that never worked. Besides, the UFAs you've noted where all signed since 2019. Without some strategic changes to roster building and personnel assessment, they'll keep going down the road of finding types that are a bridge to nowhere, i.e. there's no initial contract type player to step in. There aren't many perennial playoff teams, but the ones who do have an advantage on draft day/UDFA and/or can attract low cost talent in UFA. Buffalo isn't there yet, but if they hope to be it'll be on the back of one of those other methods not signing veterans to market rate contracts. And if you keep trying that method, as @BADOLBILZ noted, it'll show up eventually in the cap balances because you don't cut your way out of that problem. As I said, it was an extreme example to cut them all. A more realistic approach is that with Star coming back, they RFA Zimmer and keep Jefferson and lower his $8M cap hit to about $6M or so and save $31.5M. Matakevich is just a ST'er. If they think he's worth it, keep him and lower the savings to $28M I think last weekend's game showed that they can survive and thrive without John Brown. And on the OL, if they keep Morse, they lower the savings to $23M. If the cap goes up $15M, that's around $38M in cap room to re-sign Williams, Feliciano and even Milano. 16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: This thread seems to have become personal for you. I can't speak to that, but it's the truth. The pick they got for Gillislee, who flamed out right after being traded and wouldn't have changed the Bills' fortunes one iota, was turned into Milano. Edited December 13, 2020 by Doc
ghostwriter Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc said: As I said, it was an extreme example to cut them all. A more realistic approach is that with Star coming back, they RFA Zimmer and keep Jefferson and lower his $8M cap hit to about $6M or so and save $31.5M. Matakevich is just a ST'er. If they think he's worth it, keep him and lower the savings to $28M I think last weekend's game showed that they can survive and thrive without John Brown. And on the OL, if they keep Morse, they lower the savings to $23M. If the cap goes up $15M, that's around $38M in cap room to re-sign Williams, Feliciano and even Miano. Thing with Brown is.. I know we need a pass rushing DE more than anything but if there is an elite WR prospect available when we pick, yeah Brown could be expendable.. Typically there’s some really darn good WR prospects available in the bottom of the first.. Same could be said for LB and C too! Morse could very well be gone, as could Milano..
Doc Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Thing with Brown is.. I know we need a pass rushing DE more than anything but if there is an elite WR prospect available when we pick, yeah Brown could be expendable.. Typically there’s some really darn good WR prospects available in the bottom of the first.. Same could be said for LB and C too! Morse could very well be gone, as could Milano.. There are a lot of ways to go. But I don't think a WR within the first 3 rounds is a priority given Diggs, Beasley and Davis. Take a speed merchant in the 4th or later. 1
NewEra Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: This thread seems to have become personal for you. Just trying to see if he can man up admit being wrong. I don’t think I’ve seen it happen after almost 20 years. Not that he hasn’t, but I can’t remember an instance. He was wrong about Gillislee. He’s had opportunity to admit being wrong, yet he refuses to. Just changing the narrative, per usual. “Straw man, blah blah blah, straw man” same ****, different day
ghostwriter Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: There are a lot of ways to go. But I don't think a WR within the first 3 rounds is a priority given Diggs, Beasley and Davis. Take a speed merchant in the 4th or later. Most likely.. but you gotta play the hand you’re dealt.. I’m a firm believer in BPA.. Gimme a HOF player at a position that may not exactly be a need for this team over someone who is JAG. TE, WR, C, G, DE, DT, LB, CB, S — Just get me the best player..
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