scuba guy Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) Shaw we are 9--3 But why is everyone such a Debbie downer Are we winning Isn't it fun to watch the bills 17 years of watching junk turning the tv off at the 3rd quarter Waiting for November to hit to see what draft picks we mite get Stop complaining people Drink the cool aid Edited December 11, 2020 by scuba guy
Alphadawg7 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Oh hell they "got lucky" right out of the gate............they made the playoffs in 2017 with the worst point differential of any playoff team in 30 years!...........that is the very definition of a statistical outlier........ie 'lucky". 2) As far as getting to Allen..........it actually was a pretty clear path. It was your army fighting it's way to the the capital city and finding it abandoned and undefended kinda' easy. They had traded away a bunch of assets starting in 2017 to accumulate picks with the thought process that they were going to need a ton of picks to move up for a QB in 2018. As it turned out there was very little competition to get there. Teams were not willing to pay much to move up for the likes of Allen, Rosen or Jackson. Beane didn't even have to use the 2018 first round pick that they acquired in the Mahomes pick swap! What they really did exceptionally well was to take the QB with the highest ceiling. Better to swing and miss on a guy like Mahomes, Watson or Allen than someone with physical limitations to overcome like size or arm strength. That's not to be undersold........it used to be that you took the lower ceiling guy if they seemed more game ready. The 2018 Bills didn't fall into that trap they made the right decision on the most important decision this regime will probably ever make. 3) Beane has had a few big misses($50M for Star.....Ford/Metcalf being some very costly ones)........but he has had A LOT of medium and small face-plants which is why they are up against the cap already and haven't had to pay their QB. Things like cutting Quinton Spain right after you just signed him? There's been a lot of quickly wasted dollars as Beane has tried to throw enough options at the wall to hopefully get some that stick. 4) BB's WR judgment was maligned for a reason........his first two WR corps were among the very worst in the NFL and Bills team history.......seriously check out the WR corps from the Bills 2-14 teams versus Beane's choices. And meanwhile the former Bills WR's McBeane passed on were making noise on the field elsewhere. He totally whiffed on AJ Brown, DK Metcalf and Terry McLaurin in favor of Cody Ford in the 2018 draft and subsequently they now have a WR corps that is fronted by 3 free agents eating up over $30M in cap space and no TE's. That's not genius that's paying the market rate in free agency and trade to correct mistakes. Hopefully Gabe Davis is the start of Beane drafting good WR's. 5) Beane absolutely did not inherit one of the worst OL in league history..........he inherited an excellent group..........they had literally lead the NFL in rushing for the previous two seasons! Wood, Incognito, Glenn........excellent players. Unfortunately they hired an OC with an inflexible plan and then Beane foolishly extended the 31 year old Wood(who was going nowhere) a season ahead of his free agency in an attempt to get him to help pimp the process for McD. That ended up costing them a lot of cap space when Wood retired after the season. And then they strangely nickeled and dimed Incognito for some reason and he quit. Glenn was traded and he then signed some bad OL to replace all of those guys. He CREATED a horrendous OL for 2018. He's done an excellent job since but this is another example of his totally botching his first crack at something. 6) They literally pay more for DL talent than any team in the entire league so excellence is expected.......and they are getting that excellent play of late. I haven't been as critical of the 2020 DL as many. As an advocate for them sticking with more athletic DT's than continuing to throw good money at bad like they did with Star..........it's just another instance where I'm looking mighty right. 7) Bottom line is that they are at a point now where they SHOULD be at their peak as a roster.........cheap QB.......they've spent basically all of their painfully accumulated wad of cap space in free agency..........haven't *had* to make any money choices on any of their own draft picks yet in free agency(they signed Tre and Dawkins early).........and they've managed to assemble a very good roster........but it's not an overwhelming array of talent(and it could have been with less basic mistakes like drafting to patch holes in the 2018 draft etc.). After this season they need to start getting A LOT more efficient with personnel decisions..........and since they have winning and a franchise QB on their side they should be able to bargain shop a lot more efficiently than in the past. Courtesy of luck and actually having the balls to be the guys that took the quarterback they have bought themselves a bunch of time to learn from mistakes. I understand that my blunt assessment seems critical but the reality is that most GM's are hit and miss and it's like a DREAM COME TRUE to have these things fall into place despite that. They've actually crossed many of the barriers to success with little resistance. But where the rubber meets the road is beating Belichick and winning in the playoffs(and a SB). They are 1-8 in their first 9 high leverage opportunities so far........but they have the QB to turn that around. Literally one of the worst takes and posts I’ve read all year. It’s in contention for worst take of the year IMO, and that’s quite an accomplishment considering what gets said around here in hot take moments. I don’t even know how it’s possible to write something this long and have none of it really reflect things accurately. Edited December 11, 2020 by Alphadawg7 5 3
JGMcD2 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I saw this last night, but was too tired to respond. McDermott and Beane took over a largely dysfunctional team. If a completely different scenario had taken place but the Bills ended up in the same place as they are right now, if they had done the things right that you say they did wrong and the team was 9-3 with some guy who is the new franchise QB, if they had lost twice in the playoffs, you would be pointing out OTHER things that McDermott and Beane did wrong. All you're doing is pointing out the things you think they did wrong. All you're doing is saying that anyone could have gotten the things right that they got right. The only scenario where you'd have no complaints is if the Bills were undefeated since the time McBeane took over. Maybe then you'd be signing Billy Buffalo is a bad mascot. Yes, there are things that could have been done differently, and there are things that could have been done better. But getting everything right is not real world. In the real world, mistakes happen, and success is relative. At this point, the Bills are an unqualified success The day after the 2016 season ended, Bills fans would overwhelmingly had said, "Yes. Give me THAT," if you would have offered them: Three out of four winning seasons. Two playoff appearances in three years. Franchise QB rated in the top 10 and MVP candidate. 8-3 in current season, consistently in top 5 in power ratings. Every fan, including you, would have taken that. To consistently talk as though McBeane aren't doing their jobs very, very well says something about you, not about the Bills. You’re so spot on... I heard Bud Selig say numerous times (it was a quote he said his father used to use a lot). “You’re only good or bad by comparison.” Metrics really don’t exist, and analysts really don’t do anything to subjectively compare the value the GMs bring to their organization. They’ll hoot and holler about superstars if it’s good for ratings, or they put up fantasy points. It causes folks to magnify a few transactions. The only metric right now is really wins, which really at the end of the day is all that matters, the Bills are in the top 10 in the NFL since 2017 when McBeane arrived. That’s compared to the rest of the NFL... that’s a pretty solid accomplishment for a team that was lucky to be 9-7 and then went 6-10 the following year in a re-tooling season. Throw in the fact, that subjectively this regime has done better in free agency and drafted better than pretty much every team in the league over that span. Check out this post here for more detail on that claim... it’s true, people don’t realize it, but when compared to the rest of the league (which IMO is all that matters) these guys are killing it. They’re not without flaws, they have things the need to address and clean up, but at the end of the day, when compared to their peers they are elite.
Doc Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Literally one of the worst takes and posts I’ve read all year. It’s in contention for worst take of the year IMO, and that’s quite an accomplishment considering what gets said around here in hot take moments. I don’t even know how it’s possible to write something this long and have none of it really reflect things accurately. Anytime somebody talks about the 2017 season and luck, you know where they’re coming from. 4
TPS Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I get a kick out of some Bills fans nit picking at what this tandem have done so far with player personnel. These were two rookies at their jobs as both are first time HC / GM. Looking at what they have done to build this team and how they got there just shows that they are learning as they go. They inherited Tyrod Taylor and didn't immediately dump him as they wanted to see if they could make things work with him. They inherited a 7-9 team that Rex Ryan screwed up by taking the very best D line pass rush in the league and asking them to stay back and hold position while the crappy LBers attempted to make plays or drop had them drop into pass coverage. Ryan inherited the #4 defense in the league and dismantled it to around 20th. The first thing McD needed to do was fix that defense. The result was an improvement to 9-7 and a playoff berth...with Tyrod Taylor at QB... Bills fans will clearly never let go of the passing on Patrick Mahomes...when nobody on that FO staff was capable of visualizing his future talent. The GM and scouts for that draft where all Doug Whaley and his choice for QB was EJ. I wouldn't let that guy pick a hamburger. There was a real reason he and his entire scouting staff were FIRED right after that draft. Meanwhile, McD found the very best CB in the league in Tre White. He went after the talent he 'knew" was good. LET...IT...GO! The 2020 Buffalo have one of the very best QB's in the league and IMO is a better fit in Buffalo than Mahomes. The Bills have one of the very best, if not the best WR corps in the league with Beasley (who Beane stole from Dallas under Belichick's nose) John Brown, world beater Stefon Diggs who makes opposing DB's look silly as he jukes them outta their cleats play after play. And rookie 4th round pick Gabe Davis who is quietly having a very good season. I wouldn't trade McD / Beane for any other head coach / GM in the league. Best owners too. The best is yet to come... I seriously think in another year or two very few people will be questioning this move. Josh is the better "fit" for Buffalo, and he still has much more room to grow compared to PM.
Freak-O Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 Haven't read the entire thread, I'm too tired really. Are there really people here not happy with the current version of the Buffalo Bills? And if so, what team do they support? Ridiculous.
JGMcD2 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Freak-O said: Haven't read the entire thread, I'm too tired really. Are there really people here not happy with the current version of the Buffalo Bills? And if so, what team do they support? Ridiculous. Summary from those folks... They’re lucky... whether it’s the playoff appearances or something like drafting Josh... pure luck. They don’t draft well, do well in free agency or in trades. Cody Ford over Metcalf, Mahomes, Oliver a bust. Star too much money, too many Panthers, traded Teller, Jefferson is better than Diggs. I don’t think I missed anything? 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I saw this last night, but was too tired to respond. McDermott and Beane took over a largely dysfunctional team. If a completely different scenario had taken place but the Bills ended up in the same place as they are right now, if they had done the things right that you say they did wrong and the team was 9-3 with some guy who is the new franchise QB, if they had lost twice in the playoffs, you would be pointing out OTHER things that McDermott and Beane did wrong. All you're doing is pointing out the things you think they did wrong. All you're doing is saying that anyone could have gotten the things right that they got right. The only scenario where you'd have no complaints is if the Bills were undefeated since the time McBeane took over. Maybe then you'd be signing Billy Buffalo is a bad mascot. Yes, there are things that could have been done differently, and there are things that could have been done better. But getting everything right is not real world. In the real world, mistakes happen, and success is relative. At this point, the Bills are an unqualified success The day after the 2016 season ended, Bills fans would overwhelmingly had said, "Yes. Give me THAT," if you would have offered them: Three out of four winning seasons. Two playoff appearances in three years. Franchise QB rated in the top 10 and MVP candidate. 8-3 in current season, consistently in top 5 in power ratings. Every fan, including you, would have taken that. To consistently talk as though McBeane aren't doing their jobs very, very well says something about you, not about the Bills. The hyperbole about "my complaints" is pretty laughable.........I just give an honest assessment.........and I've probably paraphrased the "you have to be making bad decisions constantly to not be competitive in the NFL" quote from Belichick 50 or more times in the past decade on this site. You don't have to have been anywhere near perfect to be a SB contender in the NFL. But you do make a good point in the first highlighted.......other than drafting Allen their biggest accomplishment is getting the organization functional. The Pegula's were utterly clueless about how to operate an NFL team..........they eschewed good advice from NFL counsel...........they gave a guy with one foot out the door like Rex Ryan $25M guaranteed and undermined years of draft and development work on defense in the process............as you said it was "largely dysfunctional". Say what you want about the process..........but at least there was a process for decision making instead of the mercurial stewardship they walked into. As for the last highlighted point.........I don't think like that.........the objective of this violent and competitive game is to win the SB......not just to finish as 1st loser or 11th loser by one and done-ing in the playoffs. But the journey is the reward. Some people are just a bit too emotionally invested in the game to be objective about it. That's not necessarily how everyone else has to be to enjoy it. Edited December 11, 2020 by BADOLBILZ 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Summary from those folks... They’re lucky... whether it’s the playoff appearances or something like drafting Josh... pure luck. They don’t draft well, do well in free agency or in trades. Cody Ford over Metcalf, Mahomes, Oliver a bust. Star too much money, too many Panthers, traded Teller, Jefferson is better than Diggs. I don’t think I missed anything? I think that pretty well sums up the meat of the arguments. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Hope this doesnt come across as too sensitive but curious to know what Beane did wrong to give up the 16 point lead? Did he drop any passes or give up the 3rd and forever ? At least 3 of Marrone and Rex's teams should have made the playoffs.........greatly underachieving with the talent on hand is why Rex got fired..........sometimes coaching and player errors undermine the work of the personnel departments.........that was mostly the case in the Houston mess. But you could point to a lot of personnel mistakes that greatly contributed in the 6 losses to Belichick........or the loss to Jacksonville in the playoffs. I'm not sure what cherry picking one poorly coached and played game out of 9 accomplishes.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 3 hours ago, scuba guy said: Shaw we are 9--3 But why is everyone such a Debbie downer Are we winning Isn't it fun to watch the bills 17 years of watching junk turning the tv off at the 3rd quarter Waiting for November to hit to see what draft picks we mite get Stop complaining people Drink the cool aid
stevewin Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: That was a great PC - worth the watch 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think that pretty well sums up the meat of the arguments. They most certainly weren't just "lucky" to get Josh Allen. They were lucky that they managed to pass on Mahomes and Watson and THEN got a shot at a player with Allen's skill level at pick #7 the following year. As I've said many times and in defense of Allen when the critics were labeling him a failure..........in many if not most of the 30 drafts prior to his selection Allen would have gone #1 overall. Edited December 11, 2020 by BADOLBILZ 1
RochesterLifer Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I just give an honest assessment You flatter yourself, Sir. You give a skewed narrative, stripping away perspective and misapplying hindsight while creating a dishonest assessment. As a result, you really have become quite boring. 1 1
NewEra Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 49 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Summary from those folks... They’re lucky... whether it’s the playoff appearances or something like drafting Josh... pure luck. They don’t draft well, do well in free agency or in trades. Cody Ford over Metcalf, Mahomes, Oliver a bust. Star too much money, too many Panthers, traded Teller, Jefferson is better than Diggs. I don’t think I missed anything? Trading flr Kelvin Benjamin was bad Trading sammy watkins was bad Trading marcel Dareus was bad every draft pick that isn’t a starter was a bad pick. luck or were they not mentioned in this particular thread. btw, Bill Belichicks entire career is luck. The bills were lucky that Josh allen was available a year after passing on Mahomes. Belichick was lucky because everyone passed on Brady and that Brady was able to progress into the GOAT. Very lucky
ColoradoBills Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) Great PC from Beane. Just a personal comment. IF Brandon Beane was available this off season and interviewed for any of the open GM positions how could anyone think he wouldn't be able to choose were he goes? It just seems to me that if someone didn't their judgement is clouded and/or they know nothing about what is needed to be a successful GM. In the last year or so I feel so strong that the Pegula's/Beane/McDermott team is so right for Buffalo that I have stopped looking at them from a critiquing perspective and enjoy pursuing the "what do I think their up to" inquiries. I'm not saying that the are beyond reproach and for others that don't feel the way I do should stop doing what they do, I'm just satisfied with what I got in them and want to enjoy the ride a little more than in the past. LOL, my recent retirement just might have something to do with that but I don't care. I like where things are going! Go Bills! Edited December 11, 2020 by ColoradoBills 1
WideNine Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 23 hours ago, Logic said: Consistency is great, but consistency in an organization with quality leaders that stay "humble and hungry" who embrace that growth mindset... we may be witnessing the beginnings of something truly special in this franchise. Kudos to the Pegulas. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 50 minutes ago, NewEra said: btw, Bill Belichicks entire career is luck. Are you sure you don't work for The Boston Herald?😄 Belichick is a PRIME example of overcoming a mountain of bad personnel decisions with great coaching and QB play. Seriously some of you would be suicidal if a big market media covered the Bills.........they aren't nearly as even handed as anything I've said in this thread.
Shaw66 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The hyperbole about "my complaints" is pretty laughable.........I just give an honest assessment.........and I've probably paraphrased the "you have to be making bad decisions constantly to not be competitive in the NFL" quote from Belichick 50 or more times in the past decade on this site. You don't have to have been anywhere near perfect to be a SB contender in the NFL. But you do make a good point in the first highlighted.......other than drafting Allen their biggest accomplishment is getting the organization functional. The Pegula's were utterly clueless about how to operate an NFL team..........they eschewed good advice from NFL counsel...........they gave a guy with one foot out the door like Rex Ryan $25M guaranteed and undermined years of draft and development work on defense in the process............as you said it was "largely dysfunctional". Say what you want about the process..........but at least there was a process for decision making instead of the mercurial stewardship they walked into. As for the last highlighted point.........I don't think like that.........the objective of this violent and competitive game is to win the SB......not just to finish as 1st loser or 11th loser by one and done-ing in the playoffs. But the journey is the reward. Some people are just a bit too emotionally invested in the game to be objective about it. That's not necessarily how everyone else has to be to enjoy it. There's no question that the Super Bowl is the objective. I'm with you there. McBeane have stated that the objective is multiple Super Bowls. Where I believe you and I have differed before on this subject is that McBeane want sustained long-term success. They didn't want to get to the Super Bowl fast; they wanted to build a team that stays on top for a long time. They don't subscribe to your theory about getting a cheap quarterback (good QB on a rookie contract) racing to the top, then starting over. (Neither, by the way, do the Saints, the Packers, the Steelers, the Patriots, or the Chiefs.) It's all well and good if you have a different team-building philosophy, but it would be simpler if you just said that, rather than constantly suggesting that what McBeane have done is wrong. It's demonstrably NOT wrong. Maybe different from some other way they might have gone, but not wrong, at least not yet. If they have a competitive team for the next five years and win a Super Bowl along the way, they've been very successful.
Recommended Posts