Diggs proves the trade skeptics wrong

[HOUSE]

I miss chris hogan

[dma0034]

7 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

It’s very clear you don’t understand the whole situation, and that we have better options than just throwing it to Diggs on every play. You don’t understand how valuable it is to be able to lean on more than just one player. What’s Minnesota’s record by the way?

 

I really don't understand why anyone thinks throwing Minnesota's record out there is something! He's won them more games than Diggs has won Buffalo. 

 

Ask Vikings fans:

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38009

 

 

Diggs has more targets and catches but Jefferson has more TDs and yardage. Vikings are run first. Bills are pass first. Jefferson and Allen could have been the best QB-WR for the next decade. Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

Beasley has more yards and catches than Theilen. This isn't including John Brown. 

 

It's very clear many of you haven't watched Justin Jefferson play. 

 

I've watched him play. The kid is balling. I was not high on him coming out because I questioned if he could play outside and while I knew he could play the slot and be really good there I don't think that is ever worth a first round pick. I was wrong the kid can play outside and while he is still an incredible route runner from the slot, his speed and change of direction skills are such that he has been more than capable outside.

 

Where I disagree with you is the Bills being 9-3 with Diggs not because of him. I would argue after Josh Allen no other player is as big of a reason for why the Bills are 9-3 than Stefon Diggs. The reason Beasley is having a career year? Because teams are finding it hard to cover him with Diggs on the field. He doesn't just impact the Bills offense when he catches the ball. Stef impacts our offense every snap. Teams defend us differently. They play less man than teams did last year, in zone coverage they are playing soft to one side of the field because of Diggs.... he has made a huge difference. And while Jefferson might have got to that point, likely even got there quickly (he is now the past three weeks getting what Diggs got in Minnesota - drawing the doubles while teams leave Thielen 1v1) he would not have commanded that respect from the moment he stepped on the field week 1 in the way Stefon Diggs did.

 

It isn't hating on Jefferson, I was wrong on him, I have already waved that white flag... he'd have been a fine use of the 22nd pick... but for what the Bills needed at this stage for the development of the team and Josh Allen now.... I'd still do that trade.

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

I really don't understand why anyone thinks throwing Minnesota's record out there is something! He's won them more games than Diggs has won Buffalo. 

 

Ask Vikings fans:

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38009

 

 

Diggs has more targets and catches but Jefferson has more TDs and yardage. Vikings are run first. Bills are pass first. Jefferson and Allen could have been the best QB-WR for the next decade. Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

This is a trade that has worked out for both sides - Jefferson has played really well in Minnesota, but right now it's still hard to make a comparison in my opinion.  Diggs has been the focal point since day one here.  Jefferson has not faced many double teams until very recently.  Diggs has been getting the other team's top corner more often than Jefferson.  You can't deny that Diggs ability (along with Allen's improvement) has completely changed the offense here.  

 

I'm confused by your statement saying Jefferson has won more games than Diggs though

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

This may end up being true but the draft is uncertain and it's unclear whether Jefferson would be there, would the Bills pick him, and would Jefferson end up being as good as he has so far. I think the point is just that the Bills determined they were in Win-Now mode and the certainty that they would get a top 5 receiver this year was MUCH higher getting Diggs than seeing who they get in the first round and whether that player works out as hoped (which is rare for a rookie WR). 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

 

But the question even then (and I'm convinced Diggs has at least 4 more years of great football left) has to be not just "who is the best player?" or "who has provided the best value for a 1st round pick with contracts included?" For it to be a serious and sensible debate even in 3 or 4 years time it has to be about "who was the better fit for where the Bills were and what they needed?" 

 

If that is the question we are asking I don't really think it matters whether we ask it today or in 4 years time. But maybe I'll be wrong. Let's see.

[DaggersEOD]

The way I see it, JJ would not have commanded the on-field respect / coverage that was absolutely key to our success at the beginning of the year.

 

We'd have had Brown and Beas at #1/2 with JJ potentially seeing the field initially as a #3. That bumps our entire WR corps up a notch (Brown on #1 CB, Beas on #2).

 

Right now JJ is the #2 WR on the team and is only now starting to draw the #1 CB.

 

Diggs always draw the majority of coverage that makes the rest of our WR corps better.  So it's not just apples to apples with SD and JJ.

 

To truly understand the impact of SD, you also have to account for his position at the top of the depth chart from the beginning of the season. This allowed the rest of the corps to compete against lesser competition.

 

IMO SD is a force multiplier:

Established Elite WR that commands special attention (#1 CB / Double coverage) the first day he stepped on the field.

Unquestioned #1 WR the day he walked into the WR room - Knocks JB and Beas down the depth chart to compete against lesser talent

Intangibles - hard worker, expects the best of everyone, high standards; no rookie walks in the door with these assets

Immediate rapport with JA - a rookie has to establish that he can compete at this level and build trust with his QB/OC before he has the opportunity to build that relationship

 

I'm sure there are other positive impacts, but the point is, he did more for this team than ANY rookie could possibly do, and while JJ MAY develop into this kind of force multiplier in the future, SD already is.

 

We knew what this team needed and we knew where to find it.  So we went and got it.

 

The Bills absolutely won in this trade.  That said the Vikings didn't lose either.

Edited December 9, 2020 by DaggersEOD

[Bronxbomber21]

53 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

Anyone that might be saying - OH we could have had Jefferson with our first round pick....

 

1) There was no way of knowing he would be there when we picked

2) There was no way of knowing he would actually be as good as he is

3) As is the case with almost all rookie WRs, he has limitations as a pro - but he has 100% taken advantage of his situation and having Cousins certainly helps (it's not like he's on the Jags/Bear/Jets where the QB situation is..... poor)

 

Trading for a proven 26 yr old and seeing immediate returns not only from his own production but what it has done to increase the production of the team makes us the overall winner. I'd also like to add.... for a rookie as our number 4 WR Davis is having a stellar season :

 

25 rec for 422 yds and 5 tds (Not exactly a slouch for rookie stats)

 

For quick comparison Jefferson is 61 rec for 1039 yds and 7 tds.... While it's not fair to do a strait extrapolation and comparison, just for fun - if we bump Davis up to 50 catches his stat line comes to 50 rec for 850 yds and 10 tds - not a fair comparison but still.

 

We got Diggs AND Davis. Frankly we're stacked.

Davis could have what 8 tds , the drop vs the Patriots the no challenge vs Raiders and penalty vs Jets

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, 27yanks said:

"I want him to be him. I don't want him to be anything else but him," Daboll said. "He's got juice, he's got fiery competitiveness, he's got swagger -- and I want him to have it because it rubs off on our team.

"He's an old throwback. He wants to grind at practice, you've got to take him out because he just wants to keep going. And if it's not right at practice, he gets hot. He's just been such a pleasure to be around."

 

 

Awesome quote.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

The way I see it, JJ would not have commanded the on-field respect / coverage that was absolutely key to our success at the beginning of the year.

 

We'd have had Brown and Beas at #1/2 with JJ potentially seeing the field initially as a #3. That bumps our entire WR corps up a notch (Brown on #1 CB, Beas on #2).

 

Right now JJ is the #2 WR on the team and is only now starting to draw the #1 CB.

 

Diggs always draw the majority of coverage that makes the rest of our WR corps better.  So it's not just apples to apples with SD and JJ.

 

To truly understand the impact of SD, you also have to account for his position at the top of the depth chart from the beginning of the season. This allowed the rest of the corps to compete against lesser competition.

 

IMO SD is a force multiplier:

Established Elite WR that commands special attention (#1 CB / Double coverage) the first day he stepped on the field.

Unquestioned #1 WR the day he walked into the WR room - Knocks JB and Beas down the depth chart to compete against lesser talent

Intangibles - hard worker, expects the best of everyone, high standards; no rookie walks in the door with these assets

Immediate rapport with JA - a rookie has to establish that he can compete at this level and build trust with his QB/OC before he has the opportunity to build that relationship

 

I'm sure there are other positive impacts, but the point is, he did more for this team than ANY rookie could possibly do, and while JJ MAY develop into this kind of force multiplier in the future, SD already is.

 

We knew what this team needed and we knew where to find it.  So we went and got it.

 

The Bills absolutely won in this trade.  That said the Vikings didn't lose either.

 

Exactly this.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

 

The one thing you're likely way understating is how much Diggs being here has helped Allen.  Jefferson never could have provided that as a rookie.  Diggs also likely had helped Davis develop too.

[Buffalo Junction]

The Diggs trade was a rare win/win for both teams. We had a young QB that needed an experience #1 WR. Minnesota needed cap space and a young weapon to replace a guy that didn’t mesh with an expensive veteran QB. Both WRs are balling out. Let’s be honest here about Diggs’ contract..... It’s damn cheap for the performance level. Particularly when you at Hopkins post trade contract.

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

 

Trades are not a zero sum game, both sides can win.  That's actually the ideal outcome as it keeps teams WANTING to trade with you and it's always good to have options and could drive bidding wars to deal with you.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

Jefferson is already very good at running routes (not as good as Diggs). He is better in the Red Zone. He is cheaper and has more potential than Diggs. I'm not saying Diggs is bad by any means I'm not. This is a rare situation where you traded for a top 10 WR and traded away the pick that went towards a WR that will probably will be a top 5 WR in 2 years (he's that talented). Jefferson is going to finish the season with: 80 catches, 1300 yards and 10 TDs.  Those are crazy numbers! Only Boldin and Moss will finish with better rookie seasons.

Its pretty difficult to compare receivers on two different teams in two completely different offensive systems I feel like.  It would be hard to call this anything but a win win for both teams.  We were closer to our window of competing and wanted an established wr...rookie wide outs usually take awhile to develop so we may have not wanted to take a risk on any of the guys available in the draft.  

[Solomon Grundy]

Hope he retires and goes into HOF as a member of the Buffalo Bills. Put his bust right next to Reed and Lofton

Edited December 9, 2020 by Solomon Grundy

[JGMcD2]

6 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

We didn’t trade Justin Jefferson, we traded the pick that became Jefferson. 
 

Who is to say we don’t trade up and CeeDee Lamb? What if they take Dugger in RD1 had they not traded for Jefferson? 
 

Jefferson is great, Jefferson wasn’t going to provide our offense what we needed. He wasn’t. 
 

It’s a win/win for both sides. Minnesota is paying a lot of money for an average QB and minimal money for a very good WR. We’re paying a lot of money for a very good WR and minimal money for a very good QB. Different teams, different situations, different needs and different trajectories. 
 

Answer this question, even if you believe Jefferson is a better receiver than Diggs... would he have been a better receiver for US than Diggs? 

[Just Joshin']

6 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

Please repost when Jefferson has sustained success.  Off to a good start but many players have one good year.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

The Bills had no way of knowing Jefferson would be available and we have no way of knowing that he would have been their pick had they been given the chance (enormously deep WR class). 

 

We traded the pick for Diggs, not Jefferson for Diggs.  Diggs was worth the pick.  You don't analyze draft pick trades by analyzing what the trade partner did with the pick unless it's an extreme case like 1st overall and there's a unanimous best player.

[DCbillsfan]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've watched him play. The kid is balling. I was not high on him coming out because I questioned if he could play outside and while I knew he could play the slot and be really good there I don't think that is ever worth a first round pick. I was wrong the kid can play outside and while he is still an incredible route runner from the slot, his speed and change of direction skills are such that he has been more than capable outside.

 

Where I disagree with you is the Bills being 9-3 with Diggs not because of him. I would argue after Josh Allen no other player is as big of a reason for why the Bills are 9-3 than Stefon Diggs. The reason Beasley is having a career year? Because teams are finding it hard to cover him with Diggs on the field. He doesn't just impact the Bills offense when he catches the ball. Stef impacts our offense every snap. Teams defend us differently. They play less man than teams did last year, in zone coverage they are playing soft to one side of the field because of Diggs.... he has made a huge difference. And while Jefferson might have got to that point, likely even got there quickly (he is now the past three weeks getting what Diggs got in Minnesota - drawing the doubles while teams leave Thielen 1v1) he would not have commanded that respect from the moment he stepped on the field week 1 in the way Stefon Diggs did.

 

It isn't hating on Jefferson, I was wrong on him, I have already waved that white flag... he'd have been a fine use of the 22nd pick... but for what the Bills needed at this stage for the development of the team and Josh Allen now.... I'd still do that trade.

All of this.  Plus I liked Jefferson coming out of LSU.  I was actually hoping the Bills would have drafted him but they traded for Diggs instead.  I understand why.  To me, all you have to do is look at the Houston playoff game.  No way Bills lose that if they had a proven WR1.  Texans forced Allen to throw to Duke Williams because they emphasized stopping Brown and Beasley.  Williams started off well but didn't make plays later on.

[HOUSE]

Back in 1st place for WRs

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2020/REG/all/receivingreceptions/desc