The only thing that can set Josh back, the only thing that can cause him to regress

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

He hasn’t been a DC for four years. He’s been a HC. 
He’s on record multiple times saying he spends as much time with every unit of the team... because he is the head coach... and that is what they do.

He leads all of the men on the roster.... because he is the head coach.

 

This.  I think there were times, his first year and a bit his 2nd, when he did focus more on the D and left the offense alone.

 

That's appropriate in a leader IMO -

Delegate

Let your people perform to their abilities

Determine by results what kind of help and guidance they need

Give it.

 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Josh made Daboll and not the other way around

 

I don't think you can separate the two at this point.  They are busy making each other.  That's the main hope I have for keeping Daboll here - that he'll regard Josh as his masterwork in progress and won't be able to resist staying to see how it all turns out.

[klos63]

17 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Is if Daboll gets a head coaching gig somewhere else and McDermott doesn’t fill the cupboards after Daboll leaves.. It’s looking more n more like Daboll will be gone this offseason.. And Sean McDermott being the defensive minded coach that he is will be charged with the task of finding a new OC and offensive staff.. This will likely determine if coach McD will be here for 5 more years or if he’ll be gone in two.. Will McD embellish the job of being a HC, or will he prove to simply be a glorified DC? Obviously you’d like to see him grow into the role of HC the way Bill Belichick did in New England and master both sides of the ball.. But will McDermott have the knowledge and insight to replace our offensive staff next year in the event that our coaching staff gets gutted? Will he be able to keep the system the same for Josh? Will he hire the next Brian Daboll? Or will he hire the next Rick Dennison? This could very well determine the length of Sean McDermott’s stay in Buffalo..

jesus, really?

[GoBills808]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don't think you can separate the two at this point.  They are busy making each other.  That's the main hope I have for keeping Daboll here - that he'll regard Josh as his masterwork in progress and won't be able to resist staying to see how it all turns out.

I think you can- ask yourself which you'd rather lose?

[MJS]

We'll have OC candidates lining up to come coach this explosive offense. We'll get the cream of the crop.

 

I am not concerned.

[Beast]

10 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I think McDermott has huge potential.. but he can simply no longer be a DC.. He has to have a great understanding of offense as well to be successful long-term.

I laugh when I see takes like yours. If you think McDermott doesn’t have his hands in every aspect of this organization on and off the field when it concerns on-field matters, you haven’t been either, 1-paying attention or 2- you don’t understand what has been built the last four years.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I think you can- ask yourself which you'd rather lose?

 

Not a useful question.  

 

There are more potentially successful OCs around than there are potential star QB who have already flashed ability, and the former are far easier to acquire - just interview and show money vs. draft, cap ramifications, etc., so of course we'd rather lose Daboll than Josh.

 

Ask yourself how Josh would look under Adam Gase or Doug Marrone or any OC who wasn't 1) committed to teaching and helping him learn 2) committed to tailoring an offense to his best strengths

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Look at Wentz.

 

Wentz is not anywhere near the QB Allen is.

[Captain Caveman]

16 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I don’t buy this argument at all. Daboll definitely deserves credit in Josh’s development but Josh is well on his way. He’s not going to all of a sudden forget how to read a defense or not recognize man vs zone. He’s not going to backslide in mechanics because Daboll isn’t there to call some plays. I’d love for Daboll to stay, I think he’s improving as an OC like the rest of the team is improving, but if he moves on we will be fine. Josh is far enough along in his development that changing coordinators will not result in a regression. The OC is important, but franchise QBs can adapt.

I think Daboll gave Josh 2 easy TD passes last night.  Now maybe he still makes those happen on a less well designed playcall, but I don't think you can overstate how much of an impact Daboll had on last night's game.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not a useful question.  

 

There are more potentially successful OCs around than there are potential star QB who have already flashed ability, and the former are far easier to acquire - just interview and show money vs. draft, cap ramifications, etc., so of course we'd rather lose Daboll than Josh.

 

Ask yourself how Josh would look under Adam Gase or Doug Marrone or any OC who wasn't 1) committed to teaching and helping him learn 2) committed to tailoring an offense to his best strengths

I think Allen would have succeeded under Gase or Marrone or any other OC similar to how Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson would have equally succeeded under any given circumstances. 

 

This isn't Jared Goff we have here. This is a legit freak show at QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I think Allen would have succeeded under Gase or Marrone or any other OC similar to how Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson would have equally succeeded under any given circumstances. 

 

This isn't Jared Goff we have here. This is a legit freak show at QB.

 

I disagree.  Allen was very raw clay who needed to be persuaded to change his preparation habits and rewire his reactions in games.  He needed someone who was willing to reach him and teach him.  (I really think Daboll and Josh are like the story of the mule trained with loving-kindness).   He would have flashed for sure, but not clear he'd be where he is today.  OTOH, with a different hand on the throttle, he might have developed sooner.

 

But I'll leave it there, since it's an unprovable proposition, just as it's unproveable how Mahomes would have been under a different coach or Rodgers, or how they would have played if thrown into the fray halfway through their first game rookie year.

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

I think Daboll gave Josh 2 easy TD passes last night.  Now maybe he still makes those happen on a less well designed playcall, but I don't think you can overstate how much of an impact Daboll had on last night's game.

The playcalling and execution on O was a beautiful sight.  Our best offensive performance imo.  

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I think Allen would have succeeded under Gase or Marrone or any other OC similar to how Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson would have equally succeeded under any given circumstances. 

 

This isn't Jared Goff we have here. This is a legit freak show at QB.

I think this is the worst take of the day.  You are completely underestimating the effect of good coaching..... and bad 

Edited December 8, 2020 by NewEra

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I disagree.  Allen was very raw clay who needed to be persuaded to change his preparation habits and rewire his reactions in games.  He needed someone who was willing to reach him and teach him.  (I really think Daboll and Josh are like the story of the mule trained with loving-kindness).   He would have flashed for sure, but not clear he'd be where he is today.  OTOH, with a different hand on the throttle, he might have developed sooner.

 

But I'll leave it there, since it's an unprovable proposition, just as it's unproveable how Mahomes would have been under a different coach or Rodgers, or how they would have played if thrown into the fray halfway through their first game rookie year.

 

It's one of those unknowables for sure, but I would wager that Allen would find much more success than Daboll if they were eventually to go their separate ways.

[dollars 2 donuts]

What the heck are you worried about?

 

The Bills were just as good with Tom Bresnahan when Ted Marchibroda left to be head coach of...

 

...um...

 

...OK, point taken.  

[ProcessYaDigg]

8 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

He hasn’t been a DC for four years. He’s been a HC. 
 

He’s on record multiple times saying he spends as much time with every unit of the team... because he is the head coach... and that is what they do.

 

He leads all of the men on the roster.... because he is the head coach.

This is spot on.  At the end of the day, coordinators come and go.  Having a long tenured HC is the most important aspect of a team.  Just take a look at successful QBs from past and present.  Do you think they've maintained the same OC throughout their careers?  No!  When Bieniemy leaves the Cheifs for a HC job, do you think Mahomes' production will drop off?  Probably not.  Why?  Because he has a great HC in Reid.  Same can be said with Brees, Brady, Kelly, Marino, and the list goes on.  One thing those types of QBs have in common, they didn't have to deal with a head coaching carousel.  Yes, i do believe that Daboll is the biggest reason for the development and success of Allen, but it'll ultimately lie with McD to maintain that upward trend of Allen's success and i'm not worried about that at all.  McD is truly turning into a well-rounded coach, because as you mentioned, he spends time with each unit of the team.

[njodogg]

I believe Beane will pay him almost HC money in an attempt to get him to stay. If that fails, I wouldn't be surprised if Dorsey is given a serious look. 

[ProcessYaDigg]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I disagree.  Allen was very raw clay who needed to be persuaded to change his preparation habits and rewire his reactions in games.  He needed someone who was willing to reach him and teach him.  (I really think Daboll and Josh are like the story of the mule trained with loving-kindness).   He would have flashed for sure, but not clear he'd be where he is today.  OTOH, with a different hand on the throttle, he might have developed sooner.

 

But I'll leave it there, since it's an unprovable proposition, just as it's unproveable how Mahomes would have been under a different coach or Rodgers, or how they would have played if thrown into the fray halfway through their first game rookie year.

 

Well said.

[Mat68]

I have faith Buffalo keeps the same offense.  Now a differant play caller changes tendencies but if Allen is who I think he is, than he will create some coaches.  Allen will attract talented coaches, and Allen will make coaches look better and smarter than reality says they are.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Losing Daboll will definitely impact Allen, Daboll play calling and the way he is setting up plays is top notch this year. The deciding factor will be the age old adage, money over happiness. If some team gives him 7 to 9 mil I think he's gone, Daboll is a very good OC and can develop a QB. There will be a record number of HC jobs available, Daboll will be in one of them. Daboll is probably only making around 1 mil a year as OC, there is no way you can pass up making 7 to 9 mil, I know I couldn't.

[Royale with Cheese]

They are going to do what's best for Josh Allen...period.  He's the franchise QB who they are about to pay a ton of money to...he's priority #1.  They are not going to bring in someone Allen isn't comfortable with.  The thing is, Dorsey might make the most sence.

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Losing Daboll will definitely impact Allen, Daboll play calling and the way he is setting up plays is top notch this year. The deciding factor will be the age old adage, money over happiness. If some team gives him 7 to 9 mil I think he's gone, Daboll is a very good OC and can develop a QB. There will be a record number of HC jobs available, Daboll will be in one of them. Daboll is probably only making around 1 mil a year as OC, there is no way you can pass up making 7 to 9 mil, I know I couldn't.

 

You don't know how it will impact Allen.  A good QB is a good QB.  He will be in year 4 next year so he's a vet.

 

Money will have nothing to do with it, it's the HC opportunity.  Everyone wants that step up and they'll get paid for the level increase.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's one of those unknowables for sure, but I would wager that Allen would find much more success than Daboll if they were eventually to go their separate ways.

 

That is true because top end Quarterbacks are harder to find that top end playcallers. I am with Hapless. The relationship has been symbiotic. Daboll certainly hasn't "made" Josh Allen, but I think the developed him the right way. They threw stuff at him, they never scaled it back they let him see things a first time and get it wrong and make mistakes and learn. Now you still need both Josh's natural talent and his incredible drive to get better for it to pay off.... but it was the right way to develop him and that is exactly why they went to a Brian Daboll type who has tried to mold his scheme around Allen and the talent rather than a scheme first guy who imposes his scheme. Allen has also benefitted from the same OC and a consistent development plan his first 3 years. Not that he couldn't have overcome a scheme change and new verbiage and everything else but it certainly has greatly increased his comfort level that he understands this offense to the finer details now. He is so in control now at the line and that is a guy who just totally understands the system and what he is being asked to do. Josh is outstanding, but the Bills have done a good job developing him too and Daboll has been a part of that.