QLBillsFan Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: I believe at that point they saw Bates and Boettger as more valuable at the time. I wonder if Bills reevaluate their trades and grades on players. Yes they did. Once again Bills felt these guys were better. Super glad for Teller on Browns but I don’t think we can say it’s huge miss. Good teams have good players do well with other teams. Good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 From past games where I have really watched him (and I'd be interested in whether @GunnerBill agrees with this) it looked to me like his lateral movement was very good (which made him effective in pass protection), but that he would consistently get backed up. I don't actually recall which opponents we were facing when I saw this, and suffice to say that he had a better time of it yesterday. But, to me, it seems like a bit of a trade-off, between decent pass-pro, and not so decent run blocking. (Also, full disclosure- I had to work late yesterday, and have only seen last night's game, condensed, on GamePass on my computer, and did not key in on Boettger at all.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 Just now, Rocky Landing said: From past games where I have really watched him (and I'd be interested in whether @GunnerBill agrees with this) it looked to me like his lateral movement was very good (which made him effective in pass protection), but that he would consistently get backed up. I don't actually recall which opponents we were facing when I saw this, and suffice to say that he had a better time of it yesterday. But, to me, it seems like a bit of a trade-off, between decent pass-pro, and not so decent run blocking. (Also, full disclosure- I had to work late yesterday, and have only seen last night's game, condensed, on GamePass on my computer, and did not key in on Boettger at all.) It is fair to say he isn't a straight up power blocker but I think generally he has done a nice job in the run game. He was good in pass pro last night. I think this was his best game overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 agree 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is fair to say he isn't a straight up power blocker but I think generally he has done a nice job in the run game. He was good in pass pro last night. I think this was his best game overall. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 7 hours ago, QLBillsFan said: Yes they did. Once again Bills felt these guys were better. Super glad for Teller on Browns but I don’t think we can say it’s huge miss. Good teams have good players do well with other teams. Good sign. I honestly doubt that last year Teller would have gotten the playing time needed to develop. The Browns O-line play in 2019 was suspect and Teller was allowed to play through his growing pains. In 2019 Spain (who had a good season) and Mongo were in front of him and would have kept him on the bench. The Browns also have an excellent O-line coach so I don't necessarily know if Teller would have had blossomed in the same way here. Ike has been very solid and I think he can deliver at a starting caliber level the rest of the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) Here is his story from the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/2246393/2020/12/08/bills-ike-boettger-journey/ Started as a QB, became a TE, then a tackle. It's an inspiring read. Hard not to root for the guy. Edited December 9, 2020 by SydneyBillsFan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, SydneyBillsFan said: Here is his story from the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/2246393/2020/12/08/bills-ike-boettger-journey/ Started as a QB, became a TE, then a tackle. It's an inspiring read. Hard not to root for the guy. I was honestly so confused as to how he stayed on the roster. I thought in 2019 he was just going to be camp fodder, this team had tons of depth at the O-line. Mongo and Spain were the starting guards, Long, Teller, and a lot of other competition at the backup spot too. Then in 2020 they still had Spain and Mongo and they brought in Winters. But he has hung on for a long time and it has paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 16 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Just wanted to give some real props to this kid. I have been possibly his biggest advocate on this board since he signed here as an UDFA in 2018. He had a really nice pre-season on the 3rd string line that year and was promoted at the end of the pre-season to the 2nd line. The Bills waived him hoping to stash him on the PS but the Chiefs picked him up for their active roster. He only lasted a couple of weeks, was cut and the Bills brought him back. They have hung onto him ever since and have never exposed him to waivers again - naming him to the active roster in 2019 and 2020. His place on the roster has been questioned a lot and I took some heat for saying I thought he was better than Ryan Bates..... well now go look. Beane and McDermott kept this kid around for a reason. He was primarily a tackle at Iowa - where they know a thing or two about developing NFL linemen - but he was always a better NFL fit at guard and their patience is now being rewarded. He filled in pretty well against the Patriots and Cardinals when Morse was out and Feliciano played center, was benched against the Chargers as Winters and Feliciano started at guard but was brought back in Winters' place last night. In his first couple of starts (and in spot duty going back to last year) he has been a good run blocker but struggled a bit in pass pro. I thought last night he was excellent in pass protection even when drawing Arik Armstead (a first round pick, no less) as his assignment on occasion. His worst play was actually a run play in short yardage where he got blown up and Singletary got tackled behind the line but overall, just super impressed and super pleased for the kid and for all those connected with the Bills who have put the time in to develop him. He is an RFA at the end of this season. Tendering him to keep him here is an absolute no brainer, and if he keeps playing like this it should not be a given that Cody Ford waltzes back into the lineup either. He stood out in camp and preseason in 2018 when was physically man-handling the competition. When you are at field level in a quiet preseason atmosphere you can get an extra sense of who the more physical lineman are and Boettger was really roughing up the suspects. I was disappointed when they let him get away. He's been a bit more inconsistent than I'd hoped he'd be but Winters is on skates at this point. The flip-side of us being glad Boettger is still with the team is that Wyatt Teller is not. I blame that on the Ford pick though. Unless you are talking about a legit LT quality blocker or Quentin Nelson type interior blocker you can pretty much figure on it taking 3 seasons to develop an offensive lineman. Boettger is in year 3 but he hasn't had the in-game development snaps that Teller or Ford have been given. Good teams gotta' develop some cheap OL like Boettger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 17 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Just wanted to give some real props to this kid. I have been possibly his biggest advocate on this board since he signed here as an UDFA in 2018. He had a really nice pre-season on the 3rd string line that year and was promoted at the end of the pre-season to the 2nd line. The Bills waived him hoping to stash him on the PS but the Chiefs picked him up for their active roster. He only lasted a couple of weeks, was cut and the Bills brought him back. They have hung onto him ever since and have never exposed him to waivers again - naming him to the active roster in 2019 and 2020. His place on the roster has been questioned a lot and I took some heat for saying I thought he was better than Ryan Bates..... well now go look. Beane and McDermott kept this kid around for a reason. He was primarily a tackle at Iowa - where they know a thing or two about developing NFL linemen - but he was always a better NFL fit at guard and their patience is now being rewarded. He filled in pretty well against the Patriots and Cardinals when Morse was out and Feliciano played center, was benched against the Chargers as Winters and Feliciano started at guard but was brought back in Winters' place last night. In his first couple of starts (and in spot duty going back to last year) he has been a good run blocker but struggled a bit in pass pro. I thought last night he was excellent in pass protection even when drawing Arik Armstead (a first round pick, no less) as his assignment on occasion. His worst play was actually a run play in short yardage where he got blown up and Singletary got tackled behind the line but overall, just super impressed and super pleased for the kid and for all those connected with the Bills who have put the time in to develop him. He is an RFA at the end of this season. Tendering him to keep him here is an absolute no brainer, and if he keeps playing like this it should not be a given that Cody Ford waltzes back into the lineup either. I still like Ryan Bates a lot......we dont miss a beat when he is playing Center 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: He stood out in camp and preseason in 2018 when was physically man-handling the competition. When you are at field level in a quiet preseason atmosphere you can get an extra sense of who the more physical lineman are and Boettger was really roughing up the suspects. I was disappointed when they let him get away. He's been a bit more inconsistent than I'd hoped he'd be but Winters is on skates at this point. The flip-side of us being glad Boettger is still with the team is that Wyatt Teller is not. I blame that on the Ford pick though. Unless you are talking about a legit LT quality blocker or Quentin Nelson type interior blocker you can pretty much figure on it taking 3 seasons to develop an offensive lineman. Boettger is in year 3 but he hasn't had the in-game development snaps that Teller or Ford have been given. Good teams gotta' develop some cheap OL like Boettger. I think Teller was a victim of two things.... one is the change of OL coaching, the other that Beane was so conscious of the atrocious line he gave McDermott to field in 2018 that he was over cautious in 2019 and essentially decided he needed that extra vet protection of Spencer Long over developing Teller. That said at this point Ike doesn't look like a bad consolation prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 21 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Just wanted to give some real props to this kid. I have been possibly his biggest advocate on this board since he signed here as an UDFA in 2018. He had a really nice pre-season on the 3rd string line that year and was promoted at the end of the pre-season to the 2nd line. The Bills waived him hoping to stash him on the PS but the Chiefs picked him up for their active roster. He only lasted a couple of weeks, was cut and the Bills brought him back. They have hung onto him ever since and have never exposed him to waivers again - naming him to the active roster in 2019 and 2020. His place on the roster has been questioned a lot and I took some heat for saying I thought he was better than Ryan Bates..... well now go look. Beane and McDermott kept this kid around for a reason. He was primarily a tackle at Iowa - where they know a thing or two about developing NFL linemen - but he was always a better NFL fit at guard and their patience is now being rewarded. He filled in pretty well against the Patriots and Cardinals when Morse was out and Feliciano played center, was benched against the Chargers as Winters and Feliciano started at guard but was brought back in Winters' place last night. In his first couple of starts (and in spot duty going back to last year) he has been a good run blocker but struggled a bit in pass pro. I thought last night he was excellent in pass protection even when drawing Arik Armstead (a first round pick, no less) as his assignment on occasion. His worst play was actually a run play in short yardage where he got blown up and Singletary got tackled behind the line but overall, just super impressed and super pleased for the kid and for all those connected with the Bills who have put the time in to develop him. He is an RFA at the end of this season. Tendering him to keep him here is an absolute no brainer, and if he keeps playing like this it should not be a given that Cody Ford waltzes back into the lineup either. Good post GB, and I remember you cheerleading for him. He has a great opportunity over the next four games plus playoffs to cement his starting role, and Ford may just be a back up for the starting Guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 They need to find a way to resign Mongo and Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) It's really nice we have options: Feleciano, Boettger, Ford, even Winters (he's not good, but an NFL starter) and I would add Bates (all he does is produce no matter what position he plays -- Wow! That is great value trade Beane pull off there). I think all five of that line-up are starters in the NFL, and all five can play multiple positions--something the Bills greatly value as well. To put this in perspective, two of the most notable releases/trades the last two seasons, Teller and Spain, are starting and playing well on new teams. But both were expendable in Buffalo. Another angle: There are two guys on the Practice Squad that the Bills have gone out of their way to get and keep, and who I think will be given a serious look next season: Jonatthan Harrison and Trey Adams. Harrison was a starter for the Jets (cue the Jets jokes here) and Sam Darnold was really disappointed when they let him go [It seemed more Cap related than performance?]. The Bills picked him up immediately thereafter. That tells me something. I think they are evaluating weather he could be good depth for a change at Center next season? . . . Adams, while we have no body of work to go on, they quickly signed him after the draft. He needs to get stronger and he needs to be given time to fully recover from some pretty huge injuries while in college. But early in his college career he was in serious first-round quality discussions. Clearly this is a Red-Shirt developmental season for him. It will be interesting to see if he can take full advantage of it and if the Bills reap the rewards of taking a flier on him. Given time, and assuming he is back to 100% physically, and gets bigger and stronger, I think he could end up being a great find at RT. ... I know, a lot of assumptions going there, but again, there's a reason they kept him around. Edited December 9, 2020 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think Teller was a victim of two things.... one is the change of OL coaching, the other that Beane was so conscious of the atrocious line he gave McDermott to field in 2018 that he was over cautious in 2019 and essentially decided he needed that extra vet protection of Spencer Long over developing Teller. That said at this point Ike doesn't look like a bad consolation prize. Agreed - I also believe that with the O-line depth they brought in - that gave Beane a chance to recoup some picks to make other moves. Once they settled on a line - I believe they looked at versatility to maintain depth and then who can we maybe spin off for picks. Teams were more interested in trading for a guy like Teller than a guy like Long. I think they knew Teller had potential to be a good guard, but that was his only position (he was not a center or tackle flex player) - so as flexible depth he was not it and he could bring back assets that a guy like Long could not. The goal was to have someone up and coming to replace what they might potentially lose in Teller and that is where Ike (and Bates) come in. Those are the young and up and coming guys that begin to replace the Vets to maintain some growth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvlevydraftdaygenius Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 23 hours ago, hemma said: Yup, Ford might be in a tough spot. Possible that we can't hold onto Williams and he gets another chance at RT. One way or the other, I'm happy for Ike. He is the only player I have ever tweeted (in his rookie year) and he actually responded. When picking kids out of school, Iowa linemen are a somewhat safer 'bet'. Williams, reminds me alot of Howard Ballard, when Ballard developed. When I watch the games he is another lineman when he gets his hands on you it is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Bronxbomber21 said: They need to find a way to resign Mongo and Williams Might be a financial decision not to, and for the first time I can remember we have decent depth along the oline, especially in the interior. I expect we make lower contract offers to each and if they want to test the market they will. This will become the norm for us, we will not be able to keep every player and will need to have quality guys in the development pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think Teller was a victim of two things.... one is the change of OL coaching, the other that Beane was so conscious of the atrocious line he gave McDermott to field in 2018 that he was over cautious in 2019 and essentially decided he needed that extra vet protection of Spencer Long over developing Teller. That said at this point Ike doesn't look like a bad consolation prize. Yeah that free agent OL class in 2018 that Beane brought in was trash...........and as @Rochesterfan said if versatility was a factor Boettger had reportedly worked pretty hard to be able to play the other positions on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Now that he has enough snaps to qualify, PFF has him as the 11th best guard in the league this season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, gobills404 said: Now that he has enough snaps to qualify, PFF has him as the 11th best guard in the league this season. Nice find. He was excellent on MNF. His best game so far. Just keep it rolling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Nice find. He was excellent on MNF. His best game so far. Just keep it rolling! ' Would you already say Boettger is already better than Quentin Nelson? I think I'm there now...watcha think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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