Fraud or no fraud? that is the question...

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Assumptions are often misleading, hence the scientific method.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The protestors should have distanced more.  They were outside and the ones I watched the participants were masked.  So not perfect to be sure.  Better than inside with no masks.

 

Data means something.  Guesses don’t.

Integrity means something as well.  
 

Have a good day. 

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Integrity means something as well.  
 

Have a good day. 

Indeed.  I’m comfortable in that regard.  And you?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Indeed.  I’m comfortable in that regard.  And you?

100% comfortable.  

[DrDawkinstein]

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

[shoshin]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

Taking the other side on stupid conspiracies is no way to go through life son. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by shoshin

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Taking the other side on stupid conspiracies is no way to go through live son. 

 

It's not. It's asking why arent Republicans, and even posters here, concerned about those machines or elections if this truly is about the bigger picture like they claim.

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's not. It's asking why arent Republicans, and even posters here, concerned about those machines or elections if this truly is about the bigger picture like they claim.

It’s all baseless. Just like Dems not admitting the chasms in Russiagate accusations. 

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

 

My problem with the Democratic party has been the mentality that's summed up in a famous phrase from one of its heroes:

 

"When they go low, we go high."

 

I love Michelle Obama and actually would have loved to see her run for political office, but no.  The Democrats need to stop bringing knives to these gunfights.  The issue with the Democratic party as the "big tent" party is getting everyone to coalesce and act as one entity.  Since the Republican Party is just a bunch of rich white dudes, it's much easier to get them to go with the gameplan.

 

But yeah, this push "there was fraud that only affected the Republican candidate negatively!!!" was just silly.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

Wait...you’re arguing that there’s “tomfoolery”, alleging election fraud and complaining about the machines and software from various venders?

 

I’m a Republican and I’m hear to say :  Look at all those machines closely.  
 

(And you’re nutso cookoo if you think the Dems don’t know how to go on the offensive!)
 

 

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Wait...you’re arguing that there’s “tomfoolery”, alleging election fraud and complaining about the machines and software from various venders?

 

I’m a Republican and I’m hear to say :  Look at all those machines closely.  
 

(And you’re nutso cookoo if you think the Dems don’t know how to go on the offensive!)

 

Hand recounts of paper ballots verified the results of Dominion machines in Georgia.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Just now, Scraps said:

 

Hand recounts of paper ballots verified the results of Dominion machines in Georgia.

Talk to your boys here.  
 

I’ve never doubted that people will vote for Biden even in his present condition.  Tribalism, protectionism, liberal guilt and protecting the home field all contribute to people overlooking some stunningly obvious issue with this member of the ruling class.  Transpy just commented about how the Rs are all old rich guys while pulling the lever loudly and proudly for...a rich old white guy. 
 

I was fully prepared for this eventuality.  
 

That said, it seems for some that the argument that there was no election fraud and the machines and software we flawless has morphed into something else entirely.  I’m onboard with complete and total transparency and quite frankly would advocate declassifying just about everything we’ve got.  

[Scraps]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Talk to your boys here.  
 

I’ve never doubted that people will vote for Biden even in his present condition.  Tribalism, protectionism, liberal guilt and protecting the home field all contribute to people overlooking some stunningly obvious issue with this member of the ruling class.  Transpy just commented about how the Rs are all old rich guys while pulling the lever loudly and proudly for...a rich old white guy. 
 

I was fully prepared for this eventuality.  
 

That said, it seems for some that the argument that there was no election fraud and the machines and software we flawless has morphed into something else entirely.  I’m onboard with complete and total transparency and quite frankly would advocate declassifying just about everything we’ve got.  

 

So are you saying there was wide spread fraud?  Enough to flip the election?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

 

So are you saying there was wide spread fraud?  Enough to flip the election?

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

 

Based on history here, I don't answer people who dodge by avoiding answering my questions.  Answer mine and I will answer yours.

[shoshin]

9 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

 

You want to prove something for which there is no evidence. Why is this the first election ever where we don't accept the winner? 

 

I suspect because Trump keeps up this narrative and these court cases that are getting laughed out of every court. 

 

I ask the Occam's Razor query again specifically of you only:

 

Republican SC justices including Kavanaugh, Gorsich, and Barrett, Republican PA Legislature, 4 R governors, Multiple R federal court judges and many Trump appointees, as well as all the dem operatives, all engaged in the biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which do you think happened? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

25 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You want to prove something for which there is no evidence. Why is this the first election ever where we don't accept the winner? 

 

I suspect because Trump keeps up this narrative and these court cases that are getting laughed out of every court. 

 

I ask the Occam's Razor query again specifically of you only:

 

Republican SC justices including Kavanaugh, Gorsich, and Barrett, Republican PA Legislature, 4 R governors, Multiple R federal court judges and many Trump appointees, as well as all the dem operatives, all engaged in the biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which do you think happened? 

Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  

 

Nope. Answer my question. Don't dodge. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Nope. Answer my question. Don't dodge. 

You've attempted to accomplish three goals here.  

 

1. Ask an either/or question, framed as you see fit, with a subjective and incendiary narrative;

2. You've refused to respond to a query  that better frames the argument so I understand your perspective;

3. You've accused me of dodging a question, thereby creating the appearance that the question is valid in form and I am unwilling to answer;

 

I reject the question in both content and form.  

 

 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You've attempted to accomplish three goals here.  

 

1. Ask an either/or question, framed as you see fit, with a subjective and incendiary narrative;

2. You've refused to respond to a query  that better frames the argument so I understand your perspective;

3. You've accused me of dodging a question, thereby creating the appearance that the question is valid in form and I am unwilling to answer;

 

I reject the question in both content and form.  

 

 

 

It's not complicated and I'll make it easier and less incindiary for you: 

 

Biden winning is (one of, if not THE) biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which is it? 

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by shoshin