Is there a way to measure the “violence” level of a defense?

[All I Need is Hope]

I’m a three decade Bills fan, but I was also raised in Pittsburgh and always admired the way they play defense.  Regardless of year, talent level, record; they play defense with a violence level that seems slightly above the rest of the league.

 

They aren’t dirty, but they deliver hit/blows that sometimes other teams might not attempt.  They also seem to always swarm to the ball carrier with consistently high intensity. It’s kind a a hardwired element of their approach.  I appreciate watching it.

 

With all of the sophistication in analytics, I wonder if/wish there was a way to measure “violence”.

 

Anyone agree or have other teams that play with consistent violence levels (Ravens?).

[BuffaloBillies]

Violence has no place in the NFL.

 

- Gregg Williams

[Beast]

I think you answered your own question. The way to measure it is to see it. When you see it, you know it.

 

The Steelers and Ravens come to mind when I think of violent defenses.

[Figster]

43 minutes ago, Beast said:

I think you answered your own question. The way to measure it is to see it. When you see it, you know it.

 

The Steelers and Ravens come to mind when I think of violent defenses.

Steelers at the top of the rankings on turnover differential this season at 12+

 

Titans ranked second at 11+  in combination with playing smash mouth football on Offense.

 

(Dolphins in top 5 at 6 +)

 

Bills about middle of the pack at 1+ 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Figster

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

I’m a three decade Bills fan, but I was also raised in Pittsburgh and always admired the way they play defense.  Regardless of year, talent level, record; they play defense with a violence level that seems slightly above the rest of the league.

 

They aren’t dirty, but they deliver hit/blows that sometimes other teams might not attempt.  They also seem to always swarm to the ball carrier with consistently high intensity. It’s kind a a hardwired element of their approach.  I appreciate watching it.

 

With all of the sophistication in analytics, I wonder if/wish there was a way to measure “violence”.

 

Anyone agree or have other teams that play with consistent violence levels (Ravens?).

 

Ravens definitely do...the Seahawks used to, hence their Legion of Boom moniker...Bucs used to with Derrick Brooks in their SB winning days...Eagles when they had Reggie White and the Buddy Ryan led D...Bills used to as well when they had Spikes, and to a lesser degree Bradham. Last year we played violent at times also...

 

Most of the time good defenses tend to look more violent because in general they are in closer proximity to where the football is leading to more big hits when the player may not be ready for it or more "bang bang" type plays where the defender and ball get to the receiver at the same time

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

I’m a three decade Bills fan, but I was also raised in Pittsburgh and always admired the way they play defense.  Regardless of year, talent level, record; they play defense with a violence level that seems slightly above the rest of the league.

 

They aren’t dirty, but they deliver hit/blows that sometimes other teams might not attempt.  They also seem to always swarm to the ball carrier with consistently high intensity. It’s kind a a hardwired element of their approach.  I appreciate watching it.

 

With all of the sophistication in analytics, I wonder if/wish there was a way to measure “violence”.

 

Anyone agree or have other teams that play with consistent violence levels (Ravens?).

AWS is doing a ton of really intense player movement metrics using body sensors. I don't know if they've released the full picture of what they're capturing yet. It seems possible to place pressure sensors helmets, shoulder pads ect... Something tells me though that that's the exact type of metric the NFL wouldn't be too keen on promoting in the aftermath of the concussion scandal. 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Motorin'

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Violence has no place in the NFL.

 

- Gregg Williams

Injuries are part of it. It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play.

 

-Doug Whaley

[clayboy54]

Ask Vontaze Burfict.

[All I Need is Hope]

54 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Ravens definitely do...the Seahawks used to, hence their Legion of Boom moniker...Bucs used to with Derrick Brooks in their SB winning days...Eagles when they had Reggie White and the Buddy Ryan led D...Bills used to as well when they had Spikes, and to a lesser degree Bradham. Last year we played violent at times also...

 

Most of the time good defenses tend to look more violent because in general they are in closer proximity to where the football is leading to more big hits when the player may not be ready for it or more "bang bang" type plays where the defender and ball get to the receiver at the same time

Appreciate the perspectives.  I think the turnover +/- is a good surrogate metric for aggressiveness and maybe violence.

 

I agree that some players just have it, like some that have been mentioned.  I would say that the Bills that play with violence are Milano and Hughes... maybe Oliver. 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, All I Need is Hope said:

Appreciate the perspectives.  I think the turnover +/- is a good surrogate metric for aggressiveness and maybe violence.

 

I agree that some players just have it, like some that have been mentioned.  I would say that the Bills that play with violence are Milano and Hughes... maybe Oliver. 

As do I,

 

I remember how it used to be going up against a Ray Lewis led Ravens D. If the game was close in the final minutes more often then not the Ravens D was taking the football. Sometimes very violently. It was an amazing show of force and how one mans strong leadership, will and yes, savagery conquers the opposition.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

The only real game this year we looked "violent" probably was the Seattle win. We don't really have any players like Ray Lewis that will cut you in half but when we blitz we can bring our own version of chaos. Not having a 1tech this season does hurt what Sean likes to do. Maybe with AJ, Tremaine and Matt on the field all at once might bring with it more big hits?

[Mr. WEO]

seemingly unmeasurable in the second half...

[muppy]

violence level of a defense eh....well you might look at penalties of the personal variety as one metric.....players put on concussion protocols after they play your team might be another.....Violence to me equates dirty not tough but thats just me. Certain players get a reputation for being hard hitters but frankly if you are in the NFL you are no softie and ANY of them can lay the wood depending on the circumstance and any given play

[brianb386]

1 hour ago, clayboy54 said:

Ask Vontaze Burfict.

you beat me to it!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Police records.

*
*
Oh, on field.

[Figster]

20 minutes ago, Muppy said:

violence level of a defense eh....well you might look at penalties of the personal variety as one metric.....players put on concussion protocols after they play your team might be another.....Violence to me equates dirty not tough but thats just me. Certain players get a reputation for being hard hitters but frankly if you are in the NFL you are no softie and ANY of them can lay the wood depending on the circumstance and any given play

Lawrence Taylor is one of the hardest hitters the NFL has ever seen involved in the most violent play I have ever witnessed to a QB.

 

Considered one of the greatest of all time...

Edited December 5, 2020 by Figster

[Saint Doug]

I think turnover number (not differential, which adds in the offensive turnover wrinkle) is a good measure. Usually turnovers occur when chaos is being dealt on the field. Certainly when there is a fumble, but also interceptions when the QB is being harassed. 

[Figster]

13 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I think turnover number (not differential, which adds in the offensive turnover wrinkle) is a good measure. Usually turnovers occur when chaos is being dealt on the field. Certainly when there is a fumble, but also interceptions when the QB is being harassed. 

From what I can see the top 5 teams in differential doesn't change much If any from the the top 5 in turnover numbers IMO.

[Patrick Duffy]

5 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

I’m a three decade Bills fan, but I was also raised in Pittsburgh and always admired the way they play defense.  Regardless of year, talent level, record; they play defense with a violence level that seems slightly above the rest of the league.

 

They aren’t dirty, but they deliver hit/blows that sometimes other teams might not attempt.  They also seem to always swarm to the ball carrier with consistently high intensity. It’s kind a a hardwired element of their approach.  I appreciate watching it.

 

With all of the sophistication in analytics, I wonder if/wish there was a way to measure “violence”.

 

Anyone agree or have other teams that play with consistent violence levels (Ravens?).

I'm not sure how one would determine the "violence" level of a defense. In any event the Steelers have always took pride in their Defense for as long as I can remember. They always seem to be one of the top Defense year in and year out.

 

I would think that it comes from good coaching for one thing, and they have had consistency on Defense (for the most part anyways) and again that franchise prides themselves on defense.

 

I mean I don't know about you but for me when someone mentions the Steelers, I immediately think Defense ( and Big Ben of course). But their D has been good for years if not great at times. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Bills have a few too many guys out there making ‘business decisions’ to be considered a violent defense.  Steelers and Ravens seem to have zero tolerance for guys who don’t lay the wood on every play.  Has more to do with their culture than any specific player.