AJ Klein: Tremaine Edmunds "a True Mike"

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This op Ought to bring all the negative nancies out of the wood work explain how Klein must not understand McDermotts defense and that Edmunds should br some olb role that doesn’t exist or a dime Will or safety or some other non sense 

 

 

Lorenzo Alexander 2018 playing "some olb role that doesn't exist" 😆

 

2 interceptions

9 passes defensed

2 forced fumbles

1 fumble recovery

6.5 sacks

74 tackles

11 TFL

10 QB hits

 

Now imagine putting a player there who can actually physically match up in coverage.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

I searched for this before posting, and was surprised not to find it her on the boards yet. Mods, if I missed something, please feel free to fold it into another thread.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/12/bills-matt-milano-almost-back-impact-on-aj-kleins-role-tremaine-edmunds-a-true-mlb.html

 

"Last week against the Los Angeles Chargers, Klein was the star, finishing with a game-high 14 tackles and 1.5 sacks. But Edmunds was arguably just as good. Pro Football Focus gave Klein a 91.0 grade in run defense and Edmunds just barely lower at a 90.7. In Edmunds last three games he’s received overall grades of 62.3, 63.6, and 74.2. The highest single-game grade he registered in his first 7 games was a 55.5.

 

"Klein played with 5x first team All Pro middle linebacker Luke Kuechly in Carolina and watched him play the position as well as anybody has done it this century. He said Edmunds is a smart player whose preparation and leadership make him stand out. He said Edmunds is a true “Mike” linebacker.

 

“ 'When you watch him on film not many guys that are his size can move and cover like he does,' Klein said. 'To be able to be that downhill, physical guy that he is, not only his skill set physically but his skillset mentally. How he approaches the game and how he understands the game, how he studies - he is a true ‘Mike’ linebacker and that’s where he belongs. You can see him, he’s sideline to sideline making plays all across the field. ... He really is something special to watch. It’s fun to be able to play with him.' ”

 

-------------

 

 

This should end the discussion. But it won't. There are plenty of people who think they're way smarter and know more about the Bills defense than guys who play on it or coach for it. We'll doubtless hear from them.

 

But let's hear none of the "Well, he had to say that," nonsense, because it's just not true. All he had to say was - and this is true of every player or coach - is the Crash Davis cliches. Yeah, you can't say bad things of a teammate. But it's totally fine to restrict yourself to the usual, "He gives 110% eight days a week and 25 hours a day," or "I want him beside me in an alley fight," or "He's a good good player. Works hard and it shows," or "I want him in my foxhole with me," or "I love going to war with that guy" or "True Buffalo Bills spirit. A tough guy who always brings it," the usual copy-and-paste sayings. Those are what you have to say. When you get very specific about things, you're going far beyond what you have to say and you're saying what you believe. Klein wasn't asked about whether Tremaine is a Mike. He simply said what he sees and knows.

 

Definitely happy that his play has improved a good amount the last few games. Seems the injury effected him a lot more than some may have believed. It's very noticeable how he has played the last few games post injury compared to earlier.

 

I have read some posters that have said they think he should be moved to outside, however I don't necessarily agree with that. He has been in this same role on the same Defense the whole time and I'd like to think he knows what he's doing in his position especially by now. Also think he will still get better, especially if the Dline improves. That will obviously help him also.

 

 

[KCNC]

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

All of those things may be true,  but he’s not a playmaker nor game changer.  All of those comments would be fine if he weren’t a first round pick, that has certain expectations with it.  

Last "big" play I can remember him making is the safety on Baker Mayfield last year.  Never catches balls that hit his hands.  Love the effort but he just does not seem to make game changing plays.

[Ya Digg?]

3 hours ago, 27yanks said:

Fans need to remember these comments are made to the media, you know, the ones always looking for an angle and something to put down on paper(oops, wait, we are of the digital age now). It's a chess game, teammates will beef up their brothers in arms. As i mentioned in another thread, I don't get to see any Bills games and have to rely on what Iread or highlites. So I can't make a knowledgable assessment of the teams play.

 

I agree with Edmunds needing to be more physical, hey I'm old school. Jack Tatum, Willie Lanier, Butkus. That kind of physicality is long gone(unfortunately). Edmunds has to command the defense with guile and intell from video. Keep these boys in the trenches together for the rest of season and you'll see a continuity that results in whoop$$%%^!! Oh and never show your hand to the enemy. Every team on the schedule is the enemy. 

As good as those players were, their style wouldn’t get them in the field the way the game is played today. They had to be physical because they weren’t athletic enough to keep up with the running backs back then. I have watched enough film of these guys to think they didn’t play the game the right way-the amount of cheap shots, late hits, etc that they would give so guys wouldn’t go o we the middle to me is embarrassing. But to each their own, I would want my linebackers to be able to go from sideline to sideline as well as being able to cover someone in the passing game. Those guys couldn’t do that

[Patrick Duffy]

15 minutes ago, KCNC said:

Last "big" play I can remember him making is the safety on Baker Mayfield last year.  Never catches balls that hit his hands.  Love the effort but he just does not seem to make game changing plays.

Yes that is very frustrating. Think he has had, I want to say 2 times that a ball has hit him directly in his hands and he dropped the INT. He can be frustrating sometimes, but IMO there is just no denying that his play has improved since the injury.

 

It may not be the improvement that we all want for a 1st round pick, but nevertheless his play has gotten better. The whole Defense has gotten better thankfully. They were down right awful for a bit there.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy

[BuffaloRebound]

Let’s see how he plays Monday night.  49ers have an extremely physical running game.  Will be a good test for him.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Lorenzo Alexander 2018 playing "some olb role that doesn't exist" 😆

 

2 interceptions

9 passes defensed

2 forced fumbles

1 fumble recovery

6.5 sacks

74 tackles

11 TFL

10 QB hits

 

Now imagine putting a player there who can actually physically match up in coverage.

 

And! RIGHT ON QUEUE!!!! 

Lorax last listed at outside linebacker position in 2016 😂 😂 played a fraction of snaps at LLB or RLB when the team was not in nickel or rotated in at DE under McDermott who is the coach of the bills now and brought his coverage palms scheme to buffalo in 2017

 

you never let me down.  Why not tight end or punter?? 😂 

 

imagine putting a player in coverage at that left inside under zone spot instead of the right one.  JUST IMAGINE?!?!! 😆 

 

Now I’d love to hear about how the strong safety free safety differ in this defense. I’ll hang up and listen. 

 

psst hint: they don’t 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Food_Pyramid_Wrong]

Watch 49ers Fred Warner Monday Night. That's a true MLB.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Lorax last listed at outside linebacker position in 2016 😂 😂 played a fraction of snaps at LLB or RLB when the team was not in nickel or rotated in at DE under McDermott who is the coach of the bills now and brought his coverage palms scheme to buffalo in 2017.

 

 

Nice try with the hysterics, Over....

 

But...

 

1) Lorax was a LB who rushed the passer a lot........which is exactly the point of wanting Edmunds playing on the edge..

 

2) The Bills do not use a "base" DE on the strong side.   That player basically profiles as an "edge" player like most 3-4 defenses use.

 

Trent Murphy was an OLB at Washington and is just a lean pass rusher.   Lorax filled that role frequently.    6'2" 250# Jerry Hughes has been getting a lot of snaps there with Lorax gone and Murphy sometimes inactive.  The assumption was that AJ Epenesa might be that "base" DE.........but he instead appears to be being groomed as the RDE of the future.  

 

I don't know for a fact that Edmunds will be a bigger TJ Watt on the edge in Buffalo and put up 14-16 sacks and cause a bunch of turnovers............but what I do know is that guys like Watt......or even Lorax at that spot.........can make a TON of plays and are worth a fortune on the open market.    

 

And that's the Bills biggest weakness on defense...........an individual play maker that they likely aren't going to be able to afford in UFA the next couple offseason.

 

Replacing Edmunds in the middle........I don't think that's nearly as difficult..........Preston Brown literally lead the NFL in tackles in this defense in 2017......and in the games that Edmunds has missed entirely or left with injury he has been replaced with little or no drop-off by the likes of journeyman Julian Stanford and first year player Tyrel Dodson.

 

The optics on how much of a difference Edmunds provides in the middle are not that great......it's decision time on his big $ option for 2022 after this season.......and the Bills desperately need a playmaker on the edge to help finish these games.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Nice try with the hysterics, Over....

 

But...

 

1) Lorax was a LB who rushed the passer a lot........which is exactly the point of wanting Edmunds playing on the edge..

 

2) The Bills do not use a "base" DE on the strong side.   That player basically profiles as an "edge" player like most 3-4 defenses use.

 

Trent Murphy was an OLB at Washington and is just a lean pass rusher.   Lorax filled that role frequently.    6'2" 250# Jerry Hughes has been getting a lot of snaps there with Lorax gone and Murphy sometimes inactive.  The assumption was that AJ Epenesa might be that "base" DE.........but he instead appears to be being groomed as the RDE of the future.  

 

I don't know for a fact that Edmunds will be a bigger TJ Watt on the edge in Buffalo and put up 14-16 sacks and cause a bunch of turnovers............but what I do know is that guys like Watt......or even Lorax at that spot.........can make a TON of plays and are worth a fortune on the open market.    

 

And that's the Bills biggest weakness on defense...........an individual play maker that they likely aren't going to be able to afford in UFA the next couple offseason.

 

Replacing Edmunds in the middle........I don't think that's nearly as difficult..........Preston Brown literally lead the NFL in tackles in this defense in 2017......and in the games that Edmunds has missed entirely or left with injury he has been replaced with little or no drop-off by the likes of journeyman Julian Stanford and first year player Tyrel Dodson.

 

The optics on how much of a difference Edmunds provides in the middle are not that great......it's decision time on his big $ option for 2022 after this season.......and the Bills desperately need a playmaker on the edge to help finish these games.

 

Preston Brown... a run stuffer in a completely different defense and they couldn’t wait to unload him because of the poor fit and his horrendous coverage abilities. Beautiful reference to exemplify the point of misunderstanding this defense.

 

edmunds like tj watt..  hmm... comparing a 3-4 olb Elite pass rusher to a prototypical McDermott D mlb.. just don’t understand what if any point is to make here. 
 

 these are some optics all right 

 

also point 1 and 2 are both imo incorrect.
 

The front four almost religiously are traditional 4 down lineman with a few disguise exceptions.  
 

I have seen the pattern of trying to drum up arguments as a contrarian before but is it pathological? 

 

Tremaine Edmunds is a solid starting MLB in the NFL (a pro bowler in fact) and an extremely good Fit in Sean McDermotts defense. Reality has spoken, even if you believe since he is roughly the same weight and height as Calvin Johnson he should play wide receiver... doesn’t mean that’s what he’s good at. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was and the fact he is healthy certainly seems to have improved his play and he is back to his 2019 level. The confusing thing for me is the parts of the game he was struggling with were not necessarily the parts you would immediately put down to the injury he had. More than shedding blocks he struggled with reads and drops against play action. Maybe he was just so physically comfortable that it affected everything. It can happen. Regardless, it is just good to see him back to his best. Our D is much better when he is on form.

 

Edit: and just to add given the subject of the thread I have never wanted to move him from the mike. Some people have really old fashioned views of what a Mike should be.

 

I agree and will add not only was he hurt, but Milano was hurt also - so the defense was playing with Edmunds and then filling in with Klein, and Dodson with Milano sprinkled in.  Then they even played some 4-1-6 with Marlow and Johnson being the extra LBs.

 

I think he had a lot on his mind above and beyond the injury.  He was trying to get guys that were out of position or new to the team into position and sometimes that gets you overthinking or even worse trying to do 2 or 3/11ths and therefore not in your position.

 

What I have noticed is as Frazier has gotten more comfortable with the abilities of the players - the calls have been more consistent and therefore the players on D have been more comfortable and back into their disguising mode - where they are on top.  Therefore both Klein and Edmunds have looked better and are fitting better; White has played better on the outside; and overall they all look more like they have the last 2 years.

[Luka]

As soon as someone says "Edmunds was a Pro Bowler" I know their opinion is worthless. Winning a popularity contest among fans means absolutely ZERO.

 

29 years and you can't understand how people want to see arguably the best athlete on the defensive side of the ball moved around in this defense and put in positions to make big plays instead of standing in the middle of the field waiting to see if a running back leaks out of the backfield.

 

I think the rampant alcoholism amongst Bills fans really prevents some of them from understanding what they are watching.

 

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Preston Brown... a run stuffer in a completely different defense and they couldn’t wait to unload him because of the poor fit and his horrendous coverage abilities. Beautiful reference to exemplify the point of misunderstanding this defense.

 

edmunds like tj watt..  hmm... comparing a 3-4 olb Elite pass rusher to a prototypical McDermott D mlb.. just don’t understand what if any point is to make here. 
 

 these are some optics all right 

 

also point 1 and 2 are both imo incorrect.
 

The front four almost religiously are traditional 4 down lineman with a few disguise exceptions.  
 

I have seen the pattern of trying to drum up arguments as a contrarian before but is it pathological? 

 

Tremaine Edmunds is a solid starting MLB in the NFL (a pro bowler in fact) and an extremely good Fit in Sean McDermotts defense. Reality has spoken, even if you believe since he is roughly the same weight and height as Calvin Johnson he should play wide receiver... doesn’t mean that’s what he’s good at. 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

 

I think the rampant alcoholism amongst Bills fans really prevents some of them from understanding what they are watching.

 

 

Almost as bad as the alcoholism problem in Russia “Лука“.
 

At least it is nice to appreciate that none of the visionaries that ‘know how to better use the bills personnel than they do’ have their influence beyond  a few posters that never watch games, their own aliases they invent to agree with themselves and their pets. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Haha. What should be say? That Edmunds doesn’t read things as fast as way less talentedMKB and could be an absolute monster at OLB.

 

fir the record, I’m fine with Tre at MLB and think he is growing. But do I think he would be a better OLB and destroy offenses there? Absolutely. 

19 hours ago, SaratogaMike said:

Watch 49ers Fred Warner Monday Night. That's a true MLB.

And it’s not even a knock on Tre. One of the least athletic guys I played with was a great MLB.  I always think we you have a great athlete like Tre and focus him to overthink, it takes away from his game.  Dude would destroy at OLB.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha. What should be say? That Edmunds doesn’t read things as fast as way less talentedMKB and could be an absolute monster at OLB.

 

fir the record, I’m fine with Tre at MLB and think he is growing. But do I think he would be a better OLB and destroy offenses there? Absolutely. 

And it’s not even a knock on Tre. One of the least athletic guys I played with was a great MLB.  I always think we you have a great athlete like Tre and focus him to overthink, it takes away from his game.  Dude would destroy at OLB.

Josh Allen might be an excellent tight end... I don’t understand the fixation on projecting guys starting at their position as ideal fits in their team to other either less impactful spots or their ‘ideal’ positions from a fan perspective insinuating the coaches are clueless. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Watkins90]

On 12/5/2020 at 8:09 AM, Virgil said:

All of those things may be true,  but he’s not a playmaker nor game changer.  All of those comments would be fine if he weren’t a first round pick, that has certain expectations with it.  

At this point you throw away draft status and just go with the status of his position. Him being drafted first means nothing at this point. Is he playing the position well.

[vincec]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:10 AM, Back the Blue said:

In terms of his run defense,  either you have the instincts or you don’t.  He clearly doesn’t, and another year or two or three, isn’t going to change that.  
 

Most of the time, he looks like a man without a position...too big to be a safety, poor instincts to be a MLB, and not physical enough to be a pass rushing OLB. 

 

 

Buyer beware...come contract time. 

I think he would look a lot better vs the run if he had better 1T DTs in front of him. If that improves next season then I think you'll see Edmunds play vs the run mysteriously improve too.

[machine gun kelly]

On 12/5/2020 at 9:48 AM, matter2003 said:

 

Something we forget...run stuffing middle LBs are probably gone forever...Edmunds' physical skill set is likely what virtually all teams are looking for

Matter, you have a knack for saying what matters (sorry couldn’t resist). The days of Ray Lewis MLB’s is over.  The league has moved much more to fast, mid size, LB’s who can cover TE’s, proficient against the run, and are very versatile.  The kid is 23, has honest praise by Kyle, now AJ, and is actually almost oversized for the position at 256lbs. By last count.  He played with a messed up wing for the first 6-7 games and never complained.  Klein, Edmunds, and Milano if healthy tomorrow are exactly where they are supposed to be.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

...and is actually almost oversized for the position at 256lbs.

Considering his height, how much do you expect him to weigh...220 lbs?

[billsfan89]

I think Edumonds needs good play in front of him to be effective. But when he has that good play he is a beast because he is very good in coverage over the middle and out on the flats. He is able to sniff plays out and make the right read when he has some room and good play in front of him. I think Edumonds will be a long term piece to this defense but McD needs to have a good one tech in front of him at all times.