PromoTheRobot Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Belichick Tomlin Vrabel Reid Payton Shanahan These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform. McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future. And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all. This is a common affliction among Bills fans. What we have is never as good as some other team. It's related to BBFS.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Belichick Tomlin Vrabel Reid Payton Shanahan These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform. McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future. And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all. I agree that McD is not a elite coach right now but he is very good. I see him adapting to a more aggressive play style on offense and defense. I really believe McD will develop into a top 8 HC, he is learning and is not afraid to trust his coordinators to do their jobs. McD is the type of guy that you want to play for and work for. I think we will be fine.
machine gun kelly Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What if I told you that when we eliminate truly nonsensical threads and send crusading offenders about their business....we are regularly tucked-into as a board where negative viewpoints are censored and not allowed? 😱 Hap, I agree with you, but be honest as a poster who you are. If you’re a fan of team x, y, or z, no problem. Have a dissenting point if you, no problem. Just be straight about what you are doing, and I have no issues at all. If a Bills fan doesn’t like their opinion, don’t respond, or give you’re counter point. The annoying thing one poster having discussions with himself, or acting passive aggressive. Saying one fleeting thing positive and then trashing the team trying to rile people up. That is maybe what matter is trying to say. I don’t know as I can’t speak for him. Ottom line is we have an excellent management and coaching staff, and if people fans of other teams want to say differently, no worries at all. I respect them for being honest. Then I’ll choose whether I respond or not. Anyway, you mods do a great job and yes, we should respect the good things you do, including respecting dissenting views of fans from other teams. I can only speak for myself, but deceipt, and a passive aggressive attitude I have little patience for in this world. I choose not to want to be around people with these intentions. Again, thank you for you’re tolerance. 1
section122 Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) Here is some interesting info for you. Sean McDermott took over before the 2017 season. Since that time the only teams to have finished with an equal or better record each year than him are: Minnesota - will be tough this year New England - will be tough this year New Orleans - good chance and Payton is on your list KC - good chance and Reid is on your list Baltimore - will be tough this year Seattle - possible but Carroll is interestingly absent That's it. That is the entire list of coaches who have had a better record than the Bills each year since McD took over. Not on this list? Tomlin - miracle but 8-8 last year Vrabel - tied in 2017, better in 2018, worse in 2019, likely worse in 2020. Better record 1 out of 4 years. Shanahan - how quick we forget the 6-10, 4-12 start to his career. Again looking like a better record 1 of 4 years. It is possible and even likely that there are only going to be 2 or 3 teams left at the end of this year that can say they have had a better record than McD since he came into the league. All 3 are excellent, super bowl winning coaches. Check out how their careers started though: Payton - 10-6, 7-9, 8-8 (identical w/l record), then 13-3 in the 4th year which McD can tie (unlikely but the chance exists) Belichick- 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 (worse w/l record), then 11-5 which McD has a great chance to tie or beat Carrol - 6-10, fired after one season, 10-6, 9-7 (identical w/l record), then 8-8 and fired. McD has a very good chance to beat his record through 4 years. So it looks like he is on pace with 3 of the best coaches in the NFL. What is the problem with that? Edited November 30, 2020 by section122 1 2 2
folz Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: The reason I say this about Vrabel is he clearly motivates that team to just come out and stomp people semi-regularly. They come up big in big games, and they just crush teams sometimes. McDermott's Bills do not do this. I hope you're right! I think sometimes fans see one or two games from a different team and then have a skewed view. So, let's look at Tennessee's season (and all of these blowouts): They beat the 4-7 Broncos by 2 points They beat the 1-10 Jaguars by 3 points They beat the 5-6 Vikings by 1 point They crushed Buffalo by 26 in the COVID game They beat the 4-7 Texans by 6 points They lost to the Steelers They lost to the 2-8 Bengals by 11 They lost to the Colts They beat the 5-6 Bears by 7 They beat the 6-4 Ravens by 14 They beat the 7-4 Colts by 19 So, they blew out the Bills (under strange circumstances), beat the Colts by 19 (but also lost to that same team just two weeks prior), and beat the Ravens by 14. Those are their three "blow-out" wins? If this were McDermott's record, you would be saying, "Come on, we barely beat Jax, Denver, Minnesota...and we lost to the Bengals...McD sucks." But since it is another team, this coach is a future HOFer. We get so laser-focused on the Bills and generally see only highlights and box scores for other teams that we think other teams don't have issues and close wins (against bad teams) too. We forget that other QBs make bad throws, other RBs fumble the ball, other coaches make mistakes. How bout them undefeated Steelers? They beat the 4-7 Giants by 10 They beat the 4-7 Broncos by 5 They beat the 4-7 Texans by 7 They beat the 3-6-1 Eagles by 9 They crushed 8-3 Browns by 31 They beat 8-3 Titans by 3 They beat the 6-4 Ravens by 4 They beat 3-8 Cowboys by 5 They beat 2-8 Bengals by 26 They beat 1-10 Jaguars by 24 So, the Steelers have 3 blow-out wins. One against a 2-win team, one against a 1-win team, and one against the Browns. By your standards though, they also almost lost to two 3-win teams and three 4-win teams. So, are you saying that you would feel much better about McD if we had three blow-out wins? So, let's say instead of beating the Jets by 10 and 8 points in our two games, we won by say 19 and 24, and then beat the Chargers by 14 instead of 10...all of a sudden McDermott would be one of the great coaches? That seems to be your standard here. Edited November 30, 2020 by folz 1 1
BuffaninSarasota Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) Just wanted to throw some qualitative things out there which I admire about McDermott >>>> yes, he's built a strong culture and you can tell the guys on the roster love each other, love playing for him, and playing for each other. He puts a premium on family and seems to read the team's pulse, e.g., when an unexpected day off is needed. He holds everyone accountable, including himself. I love that he is always trying to improve, both personally and professionally. He does not throw anyone under the bus...I could list more. There's a correlation between all of the above and the reason why potential free agents and trade acquisitions are viewing Buffalo as a great place & organization to come to. The word has gotten out. Do you all remember the endless posts about why players would turn down Buffalo? It was pure self-flagellation. Now, we are expecting good players to come here.....all of this to say the championship will come with McDermott. Book it. Edited November 30, 2020 by BuffaninSarasota 1
NoSaint Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is just nonsense. McDermott has more wins against teams currently with winning records than any other coach this season. The three teams he has lost to are 24-9.... pretty sure that is the best win % of any collection of victorious opponents too. If he loses again in the first round of the playoffs there will be a legitimate reason to ask if that is his ceiling as a coach but so far this regular season he is doing as good a job as any coach in the NFL and I include Mike Tomlin and the 10-0 Steelers in that. I know it’s hard to say as a bills fan, but we are in the window where we can overstock talent. generally his record should be among the best as in theory this should be one of the seasons he has the most advantages compared to peers. I don’t think he’s far behind anyone but have a hard time thinking he’s the cream of the crop and best in the entire league. Edited November 30, 2020 by NoSaint 1
Don Otreply Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 Omg..dude, get yourself layed, enjoy a nice single malt scotch and a smoke, it will likely help your psyche a whole lot... Go Bills!!! 1 1
JGMcD2 Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, section122 said: Here is some interesting info for you. Sean McDermott took over before the 2017 season. Since that time the only teams to have finished with an equal or better record each year than him are: Minnesota - will be tough this year New England - will be tough this year New Orleans - good chance and Payton is on your list KC - good chance and Reid is on your list Baltimore - will be tough this year Seattle - possible but Carroll is interestingly absent That's it. That is the entire list of coaches who have had a better record than the Bills each year since McD took over. Not on this list? Tomlin - miracle but 8-8 last year Vrabel - tied in 2017, better in 2018, worse in 2019, likely worse in 2020. Better record 1 out of 4 years. Shanahan - how quick we forget the 6-10, 4-12 start to his career. Again looking like a better record 1 of 4 years. It is possible and even likely that there are only going to be 2 or 3 teams left at the end of this year that can say they have had a better record than McD since he came into the league. All 3 are excellent, super bowl winning coaches. Check out how their careers started though: Payton - 10-6, 7-9, 8-8 (identical w/l record), then 13-3 in the 4th year which McD can tie (unlikely but the chance exists) Belichick- 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 (worse w/l record), then 11-5 which McD has a great chance to tie or beat Carrol - 6-10, fired after one season, 10-6, 9-7 (identical w/l record), then 8-8 and fired. McD has a very good chance to beat his record through 4 years. So it looks like he is on pace with 3 of the best coaches in the NFL. What is the problem with that? The response is most likely going to be something about the level of competition, without citing the level of competition those coaches faced over the periods of time you presented. There will also be some thing about the numbers of blowouts for and against. Something about being super conservative and not managing the game well. Someone might sneak something in there about McDermott’s successful challenge% Solid post overall... puts things in perspective across the league and McDermott against his peers. 5 minutes ago, folz said: I think sometimes fans see one or two games from a different team and then have a skewed view. So, let's look at Tennessee's season (and all of these blowouts): They beat the 4-7 Broncos by 2 points They beat the 1-10 Jaguars by 3 points They beat the 5-6 Vikings by 1 point They crushed Buffalo by 26 in the COVID game They beat the 4-7 Texans by 6 points They lost to the Steelers They beat the 2-8 Bengals by 11 They lost to the Colts They beat the 6-4 Ravens by 14 They beat the 7-4 Colts by 19 So, they blew out the Bills (under strange circumstances), beat the Colts by 19 (but also lost to that same team just two weeks prior), and beat the Ravens by 14. Those are their three "blow-out" wins? If this were McDermott's record, you would be saying, "Come on, we barely beat Jax, Denver, Minnesota...McD sucks." But since it is another team, this coach is a future HOFer. We get so laser-focused on the Bills and generally see only highlights and box scores for other teams that we think other teams don't have issues and close wins (against bad teams) too. We forget that other QBs make bad throws, other RBs fumble the ball, other coaches make mistakes. How bout them undefeated Steelers? They beat the 4-7 Giants by 10 They beat the 4-7 Broncos by 5 They beat the 4-7 Texans by 7 They beat the 3-6-1 Eagles by 9 They crushed 8-3 Browns by 31 They beat 8-3 Titans by 3 They beat the 6-4 Ravens by 4 They beat 3-8 Cowboys by 5 They beat 2-8 Bengals by 26 They beat 1-10 Jaguars by 24 So, the Steelers have 3 blow-out wins. One against a 2-win team, one against a 1-win team, and one against the Browns. By your standards though, they also almost lost to two 3-win teams and three 4-win teams. So, are you saying that you would feel much better about McD if we had three blow-out wins? So, let's say instead of beating the Jets by 10 and 8 points in our two games, we won by say 19 and 24, and then beat the Chargers by 14 instead of 10...all of a sudden McDermott would be one of the great coaches? That seems to be your standard here. Solid post. One correction, they actually lost to the 2-8 Bengals by 11 points.
TheCockSportif Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 Also, slightly unrelated, but maybe the OP will fix the title of this thread? It's kinda embarrassing that it's still tagged as a vague title.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Groin said: Also, slightly unrelated, but maybe the OP will fix the title of this thread? It's kinda embarrassing that it's still tagged as a vague title. He's been reminded politely to do so in PM. 1
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He's been reminded politely to do so in PM. I tried to hours ago, figuring it was under Moderation Actions. Didn't realize I could do it by editing the OP.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: Hap, I agree with you, but be honest as a poster who you are. If you’re a fan of team x, y, or z, no problem. Have a dissenting point if you, no problem. Just be straight about what you are doing, and I have no issues at all. If a Bills fan doesn’t like their opinion, don’t respond, or give you’re counter point. The annoying thing one poster having discussions with himself, or acting passive aggressive. Saying one fleeting thing positive and then trashing the team trying to rile people up. That is maybe what matter is trying to say. I don’t know as I can’t speak for him. Ottom line is we have an excellent management and coaching staff, and if people fans of other teams want to say differently, no worries at all. I respect them for being honest. Then I’ll choose whether I respond or not. Anyway, you mods do a great job and yes, we should respect the good things you do, including respecting dissenting views of fans from other teams. I can only speak for myself, but deceipt, and a passive aggressive attitude I have little patience for in this world. I choose not to want to be around people with these intentions. Again, thank you for you’re tolerance. I appreciate the kind word. The point I wanted to make is that it all depends upon perspective. Some people have the perspective that negative or dissenting viewpoints are not welcome or even allowed here. Other people have the viewpoint that the board is overly cluttered with negative and dissenting viewpoints to the point where it's degraded and they don't want to be here. My viewpoint is 🤷♂️ I can tell I'm a born moderate, I can usually get both sides of an argument mad at me 😜 1 1
HappyDays Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 The Bills have 2 top end talents on the team - White and Diggs. They also have a few 2nd tier players in Allen, Poyer, Dawkins, and D. Williams. Otherwise most of the roster has been average or replacement level. Going 8-3 against this schedule with meh talent level is pretty impressive if you ask me. I don't question McDermott's ability to get the most of out of his talent. I think there is a legitimate reason to question Beane's ability to fill the roster with talent.
london_bills Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Belichick Tomlin Vrabel Reid Payton Shanahan These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform. McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future. And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all. I know what you are saying but I think it's too early to know if we will be a playoff team and that's all.. Looking back and seeing we had winning records but only made the playoffs (like the Dalton era bengals) would indeed be depressing. I'm not convinced Mcdermott and Allen are Marvin and Dalton yet, they may be better than that.. we have to see. We are winning games when we are not playing consistently well. We could be worse than 8-3 but also be better than 8-3. The eliteness you mention to win it all comes from the combination of head coach, QB (and team) . I think you could also add mcvay to that list if shanahan is on there, mcvay and shanahan didn't win with goff or garopolo. We have seen Allen and McDermott be mediocre at times, make mistakes, but we have seen a coach who is a good leader make the playoffs twice, beat good teams and have a winning record. We have seen Allen make high level plays under pressure and continually improve. We have come along way in recent years to be concerned that it won't be enough for the superbowl whilst sure we are at least in the playoffs. I would agree that Mcdermott and Allen are not in the 'elite' class of reid/mahomes, payton/brees, tomlin/rothlesburger but I think they are in the next group down at the moment. I think the coach and QB have done really well and am pleased, wouldn't want to swap them for any other pairing right now... My 'concern' would be that there is a mistake in the QB and coach which could cost us a big game. Edited November 30, 2020 by london_bills
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I tried to hours ago, figuring it was under Moderation Actions. Didn't realize I could do it by editing the OP. Click and hold on the thread title. Should bring up a text window with the title in it, that you can then edit. It may need to be done on a PC, it can be hit-or-miss from mobile devices. Goes for everyone here: hit me (or any mod) in PM if you have trouble figuring out how to do something, it may be over our pay grade but we'll have a try 2
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, folz said: So, [the Titans] blew out the Bills (under strange circumstances), beat the Colts by 19 (but also lost to that same team just two weeks prior), and beat the Ravens by 14. So, the Steelers have 3 blow-out wins. So, are you saying that you would feel much better about McD if we had three blow-out wins? Exactly, and yes, I would.
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I know it’s hard to say as a bills fan, but we are in the window where we can overstock talent. generally his record should be among the best as in theory this should be one of the seasons he has the most advantages compared to peers. I don’t think he’s far behind anyone but have a hard time thinking he’s the cream of the crop and best in the entire league. I didn't say he was the best coach in the league to be clear. But looking at performance this year he is right up there. Before you can put him properly in the conversation as the overall best coach he has to win Championships.
folz Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: The response is most likely going to be something about the level of competition, without citing the level of competition those coaches faced over the periods of time you presented. There will also be some thing about the numbers of blowouts for and against. Something about being super conservative and not managing the game well. Someone might sneak something in there about McDermott’s successful challenge% Solid post overall... puts things in perspective across the league and McDermott against his peers. Solid post. One correction, they actually lost to the 2-8 Bengals by 11 points. 👍Thanks...fixed it. (I forgot their 7-point win against the Bears as well, so added that too).
Charles Romes Posted November 30, 2020 Posted November 30, 2020 The way the rules cater to the offenses these days it’s almost impossible for your team to ever have that look of a classic dominant team. Even the best teams get scored on at will through long periods of games. The look of a dominant team under in the current NFL is one that can put up points in bunches almost by accident. Our Bills are starting to have that look.
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