Figured out why I feel amazing as a fan currently... Sean McDermott is an elite head coach.

[Stanley Lombardi]

The Bills have had two great coaches.  One has a gold jacket; the other will have a jacket and a ring to match.

[Don Otreply]

7 minutes ago, Blue on Blue said:

The Bills have had two great coaches.  One has a gold jacket; the other will have a jacket and a ring to match.

One can only hope so, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I know I'm really late to this post, but the op should go watch the 2007 highlight of the Buffalo Bills on YouTube. I think fans tend to forget how bad this team used to be. I think the current bills will contend for an afc championship by 2022, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that happened this year. 

 

 

I didn't give back and look, but I've had a similar thought lately.  I've watched a lo tr of football, and I'm amazed at how bad some of the teams look, especially on offense. The Eagles last night. The Bears.  

 

It seems to me now like it's impossible to be that inconsistent, that flawed.  Then I realize that that is how the Bill's used to look.  

 

It's coaching.  There was a dramatic change from Rex's last season to McDermott's first.  

 

Bulls had a dysfunctional ownership/management/coaching structure for a couple of decades. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Could you say more about what you're feeling here?

 

This is the drive summary, for reference.  We went into the 4Q up 2 scores, and went up 2 scores again  with 3:26 left.

 

I'm sure the fumbles and the INT had McD pulling out his hair, but giving up 38 yds of defense and 3 points on 3 turnovers, one short-field until a final drive where 1 score wouldn't have won the game, seems like it ought to warm the cockles of McDermott's coaching heart to the point where the team could toast marshmallows vs "pulling at the leash".  I'm sure he would live more happily without Singletary and Morse/Allen putting the ball on the ground, but that seems more like two single-player screwups than a team "pulling against his leash".

 

So I'm just curious how you're seeing it.

 

 

They were effective enough yesterday against a Chargers team that is just unreal at making mistakes late in games...........but turnover stats are as reliable of a predictor as any.........you lose MOST games where you are -2.

 

And the Bills are also the most scored on second half team in the entire NFL this year and the second most penalized.

 

Those let downs and mistakes are not reflective of the meticulous McDermott.  

 

Remember.........the context of this branch of the discussion is why Vrabel had stood out in big games..........and why McD struggles in them.

 

McD is 1-6 vs Belichick and 0-2 in playoffs.    

 

He's a last second Cam Newton fumble from 0-9 in what I would argue are his 9 highest leverage games as a Bill.

 

I don't think he and his players are on the same page the way Belichick and Vrabel(and increasingly Flores) are...........the Bills players don't entirely trust the process and it hurts them even more in emotionally charged matchups...........which is  probably NATURAL when you as a HC haven't proven somehow or somewhere that you help tilt the scale for your team in big games.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They were effective enough yesterday against a Chargers team that is just unreal at making mistakes late in games...........but turnover stats are as reliable of a predictor as any.........you lose MOST games where you are -2.

 

And the Bills are also the most scored on second half team in the entire NFL this year and the second most penalized.

 

Those let downs and mistakes are not reflective of the meticulous McDermott.  

 

Remember.........the context of this branch of the discussion is why Vrabel had stood out in big games..........and why McD struggles in them.

 

McD is 1-6 vs Belichick and 0-2 in playoffs.    

 

He's a last second Cam Newton fumble from 0-9 in what I would argue are his 9 highest leverage games as a Bill.

 

I don't think he and his players are on the same page the way Belichick and Vrabel(and increasingly Flores) are...........the Bills players don't entirely trust the process and it hurts them even more in emotionally charged matchups...........which is  probably NATURAL when you as a HC haven't proven somehow or somewhere that you help tilt the scale for your team in big games.

 

Obviously the key nature of the turnover ratio is inarguable.

 

Where do you find data on penalties specifically in the 2nd half?

 

But I was honing in on Sunday's 2nd half as an indicator that McDermott's teams are "pulling at the leash" rather than buying his process in the second half of games.  A kind of fluky fumbled center-QB exchange by a veteran center, and poor ball security by an RB combined with some stout "shut down" defense don't strike me particularly strong evidence for that.

 

Interesting theory though.

[Nick the Greek]

McDermott is the man. Best coach we’ve had in 20 years hands down. Long live McClappy! 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Nick the Greek

[Buffalo03]

You're depressing 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is a process of maturation from players. Josh Allen is still a young guy who will make mistakes. Singletary remains a work in progress. Gabe Davis made a mistake for one of the picks in Arizona.... I think we have some young guys out there in the skill positions who are making some of these errors. Some of it is just a natural maturation. If it was lots and lots of mistakes from the more season vets I think I'd be more worried. Tennessee is a pretty grizzled veteran team that had already been to the playoffs before Vrabel arrived. That is part of it IMO.

 

That said, I don't deny a playoff win would help no end. It is like anything in life.... someone can be telling you that you are doing all the right things and you are on the right track but if you keep getting to a point where you hit a brick wall it diminishes your trust in that message. Same for an NFL player trying to be part of a Championship team as for the mail clerk trying to get promoted to the office manager or whatever it might be.

 

 

 

I think we've seen some blatantly disconnected situations under McD where a lot of players on the defense have just gotten frustrated with some game plans and gone off script........often leading to horrendous results.    The worst 3 game defensive stretch in team history in 2017.    Plenty of quit in the first half of 2018.   Lot's of free lancing in the struggles early this year(specifically Jerry Hughes).    It seems like every season they go thru periods where McD struggles to rein them in at times.

 

They are not a particularly mentally disciplined team on either side of the ball..........which has to be a source of frustration for someone like McD who works so hard to tie up every loose end.

 

And yes winning some playoff games this season would be absolutely huge for McD going forward.

 

A bunch of educated 35-75 year old white males on a message board can poo-poo the idea but the reality is that a 25 year old football player doesn't have as much life experience and they fill in the blanks of what they don't understand with mythology like "Shula can take his and beat yours and yours and beat his".

[Albany,n.y.]

On 11/30/2020 at 12:37 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Vrabel is not an elite coach. Shanahan is a work in progress, and the jury is still out there as well. Might as well include McVay who just went to a Super Bowl, and who was also out-coached by McD this year.

 

The other guys have all been Head Coaches for over a decade.

And all those veteran coaches have lock HOF QBs or in Reid's case a potential HOFer if he remains healthy.  

[Niagara]

On 11/30/2020 at 12:29 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

As to the coaches you identify, it has nothing to do with coaching.  None of those guys win their SB without superstar QB play. Our chances of a Super Bowl rest solely on Josh Allen's hands.  QB's win Super Bowls. 

Always thought Levy rode Kelly's coat tails to the HOF.

[Albany,n.y.]

15 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

McDermott is the man. Best coach we’ve had in 20 years hands down. Long live McClappy! 

McDermott is the only Bills head coach who was a 1st time hire HC that has ever had success in Bills history.  All other successful Bills coaches were retreads.  I think part of the reason for this was Ralph was always looking to cheap out on coaches.  

42 minutes ago, Blue on Blue said:

The Bills have had two great coaches.  One has a gold jacket; the other will have a jacket and a ring to match.

Chuck Knox was a great coach but Ralph drove him away. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Obviously the key nature of the turnover ratio is inarguable.

 

Where do you find data on penalties specifically in the 2nd half?

 

But I was honing in on Sunday's 2nd half as an indicator that McDermott's teams are "pulling at the leash" rather than buying his process in the second half of games.  A kind of fluky fumbled center-QB exchange by a veteran center, and poor ball security by an RB combined with some stout "shut down" defense don't strike me particularly strong evidence for that.

 

Interesting theory though.

 

 

They are the second most penalized team in the NFL for the most yardage.

 

Not sure about just the halves........a lot of the memorable stuff is second half though like the Ed Oliver double yesterday or the second half nonsense against the Chiefs.

 

Blowing a 16 point lead in the second half of the playoff game in Houston is going to loom over the discussion leading up to the first playoff game and it will be in the back of the minds of the players.

 

McD needs to get off that schneid.    

 

A better performance and another win over New England would be very helpful going forward as well...........don't want to split and have only won the first one on a last second reprieve going into next season when Belichick has a re-tooled roster.

[Lfod]

If you actually fire McDermott you don't have top tier options to come in to replace him. You are either taking a chance on another unknown up and comer or a fired HC from another team. 

 

I love McDermott, but if I didn't I would still have to acknowledge that you are not guaranteed a better HC if you replace him. 

[Bob in STL]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:19 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Belichick
Tomlin
Vrabel
Reid
Payton
Shanahan

 

These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform.

 

McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future.

 

And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all.

Belichick is the best ever. 
 

Reid has 1 Super Bowl win in 22 years.  He is a great coach for a lot of reasons - but with a playoff record of 15-14.  Reid’s history tell us to give McDermott a little more than 3 years before you rush to judgement.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bob in STL

[Max Fischer]

Let’s see, what do all of these coaches have in common?

Belichick - Hall of Fame QB (but easily the best of the lot)
Tomlin - Hall of Fame QB (He goes as far as Ben carries the team)
Reid - Future Hall of Fame QB (He was “good” but now great with Mahomes?)
Payton - Hall of Fame QB (Saints teams have ridden Drew Brees)

I’d argue McDermott is as good as these two. None of them have had long term success yet. 

Vrabel 
Shanahan 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 12/1/2020 at 2:19 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Figured out why I feel depressed as a fan currently... McDermott is good, but not good enough.

 

 

I suspect your depression may spring instead from an unconscious realization of your own limitations in terms of ability to start threads that are worth a crap.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Belichick is the best ever. 
 

Reid has 1 Super Bowl win in 22 years.  He is a great coach fir a lot of reasons - but with a playoff record of 15-14.  Reid’s history tell us to give McDermott a little more than 3 years before you rush to judgement.  

 

 

Yup. The other thing the OP (dopily) said was giving a list of great coaches.

 

Out of his list, one had won a Super Bowl in his first three years, one, (Belichick first won one in year seven, after five years in Cleveland. Tomlin was the only one) and Tomlin was taking over a team that had won a Super Bowl two years earlier under Cowher.

 

This thread is wooden-headed.

[BobbyC81]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:36 AM, Bferra13 said:

Vrabel, lol thats a good one. Look on the bright side pal, it could have been Anthony Lynn.

 

Speaking of Lynn, what the heck has happened with him?  He was 9-7 his first year with the Chargers, then an impressive 12-4 the next season.  Now, he’s followed up a 5-11 in 2019 with a 3-8 so far.  Yes his record could be affected by injuries and the players lost and acquired but the way he looked this past week wasn’t very good.  They’ve also blown several double-digit leads.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see him fired after the season.

[Rochesterfan]

21 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'm going to ah, go ahead and disagree (in Bill Lumbergh voice).

 

KC defeated SF's excellent defense in the SB and scored 21 points in the 4th quarter to do so.  They racked up 117 points in 3 playoff games last year against 3 very good or better teams. 

 

You don't out-defense elite offenses in the modern NFL many game.  Defense now is about impact plays like sacks and turnovers.  Teams like KC are going to score and  the only way to stop them is have more possessions. 

 

Going conservative just means you reduce the score in games you'll lose.  And that's what McD did on 10/19.  

 

Yes, but the Raiders had already done that and beat KC on the year.  The difference in the Raiders game versus the Bills game - was Reid decided to stay with the run against Buffalo.  The Raiders played passive defense and clock control and kept the game close and won (almost did it a second time).  The Bills did the same thing and were in the game to the end.  The fumble was the exact play they needed to win that game and by a split second a knee goes down.

 

Heck even TB figured it out when the switched after the first quarter from and aggressive defensive to a more passive shell and shut KC down for the final 3 quarters and nearly won the game.

 

Teams out defense good/elite offenses all of the time - the outcome is just different.  You are not holding them to 3 points for a game, but if you force them to try and be methodical and run more than pass - you increase the likelihood you can win the game.  
 

There are many ways to win, but the most important is complementary play between your offense and Defense.  As @GunnerBill said the defensive game plan was not bad (they needed to make a few plays at key times), but to me the lack of offense that game was the issue.  If you are going to play a conservative defensive scheme - you need to balance that with a ball control offense and points.  The running game was blah, but Josh also struggled on short passes to keep drives alive.  
 

Better offense forces KC to open up and that plays into the scheme you were running on defense.

[HOUSE]

We could trade McDermott for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog