Figured out why I feel amazing as a fan currently... Sean McDermott is an elite head coach.

[BillsVet]

8 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Why a portion of this fanbase is so terrified of success, I'll never know.

 

I've long believed that many fans derive their identity from sports teams they follow.  Therefore, being critical of the team is, ipso facto, a criticism of self.  And most people will never be self-critical in public, meaning you've got to defend the team, i.e. self, to the hilt. 

 

Having high expectations for either the team or self is scary because they may not be met.  Therefore, shoot for a safe goal and don't risk failure.  Complacency with self and team (EDIT: are) wind up being the goal. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by BillsVet

[Mat68]

8 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

It doesn't lend credence to your argument employing the word "if" to so many conditions. 

 

Its one of those not all them.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'm going to ah, go ahead and disagree (in Bill Lumbergh voice).

 

KC defeated SF's excellent defense in the SB and scored 21 points in the 4th quarter to do so.  They racked up 117 points in 3 playoff games last year against 3 very good or better teams. 

 

You don't out-defense elite offenses in the modern NFL many game.  Defense now is about impact plays like sacks and turnovers.  Teams like KC are going to score and  the only way to stop them is have more possessions. 

 

Going conservative just means you reduce the score in games you'll lose.  And that's what McD did on 10/19.  

Good assessment.  When you act conservatively you inherently shorten the game and reduce possessions and opportunities for your offense. 

[BigBuff423]

On 11/30/2020 at 12:19 PM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Belichick
Tomlin
Vrabel
Reid
Payton
Shanahan

 

These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform.

 

McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future.

 

And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all.

 

So, I guess the irony here is that you're citing Vrabel, who hasn't won a Championship, Shanahan (Kyle I presume since all others are contemporaries) who hasn't won a championship as a HC, and Reid, who until last year was the poster boy for "THIIIIIIIIIS Close, But Not Yet" for championships. Reid is the perfect example of a terrific coach who needed the team built the way it is in order to achieve the intended result. So, this list might not be what you thought it was in your mind when you typed it out. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

There can't be many better coaches in the NFL from Monday thru Saturday than McD............but try as he might the team is always pulling against his leash.

 

I mean..........in that Chargers game in the 4th quarter it felt like they were the anti-McD's.........and McD was watching from afar without much he could do to stop it.

 

Could you say more about what you're feeling here?

 

This is the drive summary, for reference.  We went into the 4Q up 2 scores, and went up 2 scores again  with 3:26 left.

 

I'm sure the fumbles and the INT had McD pulling out his hair, but giving up 38 yds of defense and 3 points on 3 turnovers, one short-field until a final drive where 1 score wouldn't have won the game, seems like it ought to warm the cockles of McDermott's coaching heart to the point where the team could toast marshmallows vs "pulling at the leash".  I'm sure he would live more happily without Singletary and Morse/Allen putting the ball on the ground, but that seems more like two single-player screwups than a team "pulling against his leash".

 

So I'm just curious how you're seeing it.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think Vrabel is a great coach..........but he does an extraordinary job of getting his players to assume his personality/mindset.    So in big games they are galvanized and a united front.   It's something Belichick is GREAT at.  

 

There can't be many better coaches in the NFL from Monday thru Saturday than McD............but try as he might the team is always pulling against his leash.

 

I mean..........in that Chargers game in the 4th quarter it felt like they were the anti-McD's.........and McD was watching from afar without much he could do to stop it.

 

I think the only way to correct that is for him to win some playoff games and garner that last level of trust from the players.

 

I think it is a process of maturation from players. Josh Allen is still a young guy who will make mistakes. Singletary remains a work in progress. Gabe Davis made a mistake for one of the picks in Arizona.... I think we have some young guys out there in the skill positions who are making some of these errors. Some of it is just a natural maturation. If it was lots and lots of mistakes from the more season vets I think I'd be more worried. Tennessee is a pretty grizzled veteran team that had already been to the playoffs before Vrabel arrived. That is part of it IMO.

 

That said, I don't deny a playoff win would help no end. It is like anything in life.... someone can be telling you that you are doing all the right things and you are on the right track but if you keep getting to a point where you hit a brick wall it diminishes your trust in that message. Same for an NFL player trying to be part of a Championship team as for the mail clerk trying to get promoted to the office manager or whatever it might be.

[Figster]

47 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Why a portion of this fanbase is so terrified of success, I'll never know.

Well,  you have to admit Coffee, (with a little cream and sugar)

 

Bills fans have been body slammed  a few times with a reality check after getting our collective hopes up to high...

 

...I'm just saying...

[Captain Hindsight]

Vrabel has proven absolutely nothing besides having the biggest RB on the planet and he's smart enough to hand him the ball 30 times a game. He has two 9-7 seasons as a HC

 

Shannahan has shown he can have a Creative run game and then blow a huge lead. He also has one winning season in 4 years as a HC

 

Tomlin is 8-7 in the playoffs his last loss being to BLAKE BORTLES in 2017

 

These are the guys that keep you up at night?

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Well,  you have to admit Coffee, (with a little cream and sugar)

 

Bills fans have been body slammed  a few times with a reality check after getting our collective hopes up to high...

 

...I'm just saying...

 

Yeah, but it gets real dull.  It's time to worry about how we win the Cadillac El Dorado instead of ending up with a set of steak knives.  Instead, too many people are waiting to get fired.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it is a process of maturation from players. Josh Allen is still a young guy who will make mistakes. Singletary remains a work in progress. Gabe Davis made a mistake for one of the picks in Arizona....

 

Can you say more about that last?  I had not seen or heard that...

 

Pretty sure that muffed snap is on Morse, not Allen.  Morse said as much in his postgame presser (which is not up on Buffalobills.com but is available on their facebook and twitter "live" feed.  Morse doesn't have the young guy pass.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The one thing that is a constant is you need a Quarterback. Ideally an elite one but at least a very good one. After that.... you need to have 4 or 5 elite players.

 

This is the Bills biggest problem right now, not coaching or game planning but a lack of elite talent. Our only elite players are White and Diggs. After that I think you have Allen and Dawkins right outside the elite category, and then a few 2nd tier players in Poyer, Morse, and D Williams. Outside of that every other player has been average to replacement level. There are a lot of coaches that would not even reach the playoffs with this group and I think it speaks to McDermott's coaching that we have even an outside shot at a Super Bowl.

Edited December 1, 2020 by HappyDays

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you say more about that last?  I had not seen or heard that...

 

Pretty sure that muffed snap is on Morse, not Allen.  Morse said as much in his postgame presser (which is not up on Buffalobills.com but is available on their facebook and twitter "live" feed.  Morse doesn't have the young guy pass.

 

Yea I was talking more about the INT than the fumble fair cop - Morse is a vet. 

 

I think it was the second pick in Arizona (long time ago now) Josh throwing to his left I think Davis was a bit lazy in his route allowed the underneath defender to cut across his face and pick it. A bit of a miscommunication but also just a bit of a rookie lacking awareness of what is going around him on the play. Again just the sort of small detail that you get with young players at times.

 

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

This is the Bills biggest problem right now, not coaching or game planning but a lack of elite talent. Our only elite players are White and Diggs. After that I think you have Allen and Dawkins right outside the elite category, and then a few 2nd tier players in Poyer, Morse, and D Williams. Outside of that every player has been average to replacement level. There are a lot of coaches that would not even reach the playoffs with this group and I think it speaks to McDermott's coaching that we have even an outside shot at a Super Bowl.

 

Agree. I said something similar earlier. I have White with Diggs and Allen just outside then Dion just in that next group but to an extent that is semantics I agree entirely with the point.

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the Bills biggest problem right now, not coaching or game planning but a lack of elite talent. Our only elite players are White and Diggs. After that I think you have Allen and Dawkins right outside the elite category, and then a few 2nd tier players in Poyer, Morse, and D Williams. Outside of that every other player has been average to replacement level. There are a lot of coaches that would not even reach the playoffs with this group and I think it speaks to McDermott's coaching that we have even an outside shot at a Super Bowl.

Nobody wants to hear it but Edmunds is elite

 

this squad isn’t far away

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

This is the Bills biggest problem right now, not coaching or game planning but a lack of elite talent. Our only elite players are White and Diggs. After that I think you have Allen and Dawkins right outside the elite category, and then a few 2nd tier players in Poyer, Morse, and D Williams. Outside of that every other player has been average to replacement level. There are a lot of coaches that would not even reach the playoffs with this group and I think it speaks to McDermott's coaching that we have even an outside shot at a Super Bowl.

 

Is this "elite" thing a bit like the term "franchise QB", where we argue endlessly about who is or is not elite, then it turns out different people are using the word differently?

 

Could we save time now and cut to the chase of explaining exactly what  "elite" means to you?

[HappyDays]

43 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Nobody wants to hear it but Edmunds is elite

 

this squad isn’t far away

 

Edmunds is an elite TALENT, he is not an elite PLAYER. He has looked back to form the past few weeks so hopefully his injury has fully recovered, but even now he is playing like 2019 Edmunds so he's taken a lateral step at best this year. He does take away passing lanes but he needs to gain a reputation as a nasty hitter if he wants to he an elite MLB. I'm not sure that will ever be his game, we'll see.

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Could we save time now and cut to the chase of explaining exactly what  "elite" means to you?

 

Sure, I think elite means clearly in the conversation for top 5 at his respective position. That's Diggs and White on this team, and no one else. Allen and Dawkins I have as clear top 10 players but not elite at this point.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Sure, I think elite means clearly in the conversation for top 5 at his respective position. That's Diggs and White on this team, and no one else. Allen and Dawkins I have as clear top 10 players but not elite at this point.

 

Fair.  Thank you!

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it was the second pick in Arizona (long time ago now) Josh throwing to his left I think Davis was a bit lazy in his route allowed the underneath defender to cut across his face and pick it. A bit of a miscommunication but also just a bit of a rookie lacking awareness of what is going around him on the play. Again just the sort of small detail that you get with young players at times.

 

Hey, Gunner, I only have a vague recollection of that play, but I thought it was on Allen, who didn't see the underneath guy.  Do you think Allen saw him and was supposed to throw it because Davis was expected to make a better play on the ball?   I get what you're saying about Davis, but it looked to me like a ball Allen shouldn't have thrown.  

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gunner, I only have a vague recollection of that play, but I thought it was on Allen, who didn't see the underneath guy.  Do you think Allen saw him and was supposed to throw it because Davis was expected to make a better play on the ball?   I get what you're saying about Davis, but it looked to me like a ball Allen shouldn't have thrown.  

 

So I think it was a risky throw but remember we were down in the 4th at that point and he was trying to bring us back. I think it was a a justifiable chance and I just think Davis kind of sleep walked through the route. It becomes a question of who shows more urgency to get to the spot. Put it this way.... if that is Stefon Diggs running that route I think it is at worst an incomplete pass. Not saying Josh doesn't ultimately have to take some of the blame there but it was a mistake by Davis too IMO. 

[Shaw66]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think it was a risky throw but remember we were down in the 4th at that point and he was trying to bring us back. I think it was a a justifiable chance and I just think Davis kind of sleep walked through the route. It becomes a question of who shows more urgency to get to the spot. Put it this way.... if that is Stefon Diggs running that route I think it is at worst an incomplete pass. Not saying Josh doesn't ultimately have to take some of the blame there but it was a mistake by Davis too IMO. 

Thanks.  That's interesting.

 

Not many rookies learn that stuff in college, in part because it isn't very often that even have a defender around them.  In the NFL, playing the ball should be second nature; the best play the man, too. 

 

It kills me when I see a guy on a deep route, behind the defender, who doesn't come back to high point the ball and/or create the INT.  

[Steptide]

I know I'm really late to this post, but the op should go watch the 2007 highlight of the Buffalo Bills on YouTube. I think fans tend to forget how bad this team used to be. I think the current bills will contend for an afc championship by 2022, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that happened this year.