Big Gun Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: I run hot and cold on Coach McD....but didn’t he actually win a challenge on Sunday? There’s some real progress right there! Yeah me too, I'm hot and cold on him. That said, I like alot of his non gameday stuff but to me, some, not all but some of his gameday x's and o's and other decisions (take foot off gas) leave me scratching my head and hopeful he will learn and get better at that.
Protocal69 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: What those other coaches have in common is they've done something of note in the playoffs...........4 of them have won SB's..........Shanahan advanced to one last season and Vrabel won playoff games against the defending champ and #1 seed in last year's playoffs. Until McD actually does these things his legitimacy as one of the best will be suspect............people can be mad about it but that's how it goes............if you don't make a bunch of noise when it matters the league and it's observers don't hear you. So by that logic Rex Ryan was one of the best coaches in the league when the Jets went to 2 straight AFC Championship games and beat Belicheat in the playoffs. Can we please wait before we crown some of these guys.
BillsVet Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 After the trade for Diggs and seeing Allen's improvement this season there's no way I'd accept a playoff appearance. And I don't think anyone at OBD would be satisfied with that either. Nor is winning the division without at least 1 playoff win exceeding expectations. OP said he's concerned about McD because after 60 games as Buffalo's HC he's seen some trends. For me, the game-plan against KC at home 6 weeks ago was indicative of who McD is. It was weak, unimaginative and no one with a pulse believes you can win in the playoffs that way against an elite offense. If you assume Miami, LA Rams, Tennessee, KC, and Seattle make the playoffs, McD will be 6-19 career against teams in the playoffs or who later made the post-season. By contrast, he's 27-9 against non-playoff teams. The AFC is going to feature some excellent QB's in the next few years. There's Burrow, Mayfield, Watson, Mahomes, and perhaps Herbert. You can't pack it in against elite offenses and come out conservative like they did against KC.
GunnerBill Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, BillsVet said: After the trade for Diggs and seeing Allen's improvement this season there's no way I'd accept a playoff appearance. And I don't think anyone at OBD would be satisfied with that either. Nor is winning the division without at least 1 playoff win exceeding expectations. OP said he's concerned about McD because after 60 games as Buffalo's HC he's seen some trends. For me, the game-plan against KC at home 6 weeks ago was indicative of who McD is. It was weak, unimaginative and no one with a pulse believes you can win in the playoffs that way against an elite offense. If you assume Miami, LA Rams, Tennessee, KC, and Seattle make the playoffs, McD will be 6-19 career against teams in the playoffs or who later made the post-season. By contrast, he's 27-9 against non-playoff teams. The AFC is going to feature some excellent QB's in the next few years. There's Burrow, Mayfield, Watson, Mahomes, and perhaps Herbert. You can't pack it in against elite offenses and come out conservative like they did against KC. I disagree on the KC defensive gameplan. It was hard to watch but I don't think it was unimaginative at all. It was going against the prevailing wisdom that against those teams you have to try and control the ball, run clock and keep them on the sideline. It was let them restrict their scoring by making them run the clock themselves and keep their score down. And it nearly worked. If our O could have just played a little bit better or if the D could have made a couple of plays it just missed on the near turnover and the long 3rd down where Mahomes just escaped and found Pringle. I get it most fans hate conservative. I don't. There is no single way to win in the NFL and I didn't mind that plan albeit I completely accept it was hard to watch. 1
teef Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree on the KC defensive gameplan. It was hard to watch but I don't think it was unimaginative at all. It was going against the prevailing wisdom that against those teams you have to try and control the ball, run clock and keep them on the sideline. It was let them restrict their scoring by making them run the clock themselves and keep their score down. And it nearly worked. If our O could have just played a little bit better or if the D could have made a couple of plays it just missed on the near turnover and the long 3rd down where Mahomes just escaped and found Pringle. I get it most fans hate conservative. I don't. There is no single way to win in the NFL and I didn't mind that plan albeit I completely accept it was hard to watch. this seem to be lost a lot on this board. 1
GunnerBill Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Just now, teef said: this seem to be lost a lot on this board. Agree a lot of people have their stylistic preferences about how to win. I have mine too. I am not a big fan of blitz heavy defenses for example. But people are successful doing it ways other than the way I'd do it and I respect that. I don't pretend you have to be playing my preferred way to win. The one thing that is a constant is you need a Quarterback. Ideally an elite one but at least a very good one. After that.... you need to have 4 or 5 elite players. Where they play on the field or what scheme you play or whether you are offense led or defense led.... none of that is fixed. 1
JohnNord Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 22 hours ago, BillsFanSD said: Tomlin, Vrabel, Payton, and Shanahan have two SB wins between the four of them. Not sure why you're putting those guys in the same category as Belichick and Reid, and I'm also not sure why you think McD is somehow on a lower rung than them. I mean, Tomlin is like the platonic form of "good but not great." Andy Reid won his first Super Bowl title and was largely thought of as a “good playoff coach” that couldn’t win in the post-season for over a decade. Everything changed once he found a QB.
JohnNord Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 I can agree that currently has established himself as a good coach, and has yet to establish himself as a great coach. But to make that determination now seems incomplete, unless of course, you’re already penciling him the Bills to lose in the Wildcard round....I’m not. So far, McDermott has a 2 game sample size of post season games. The Bills 2017 team were a group of overachievers. They probably were not among the best 6 teams in the AFC but despite this they won enough games to get in the playoffs - something no Bills coach had done in 2 decades. They lost 10-3 to Jacksonville largely because Tyrod Taylor (with a very poor receiving core) struggled to move the ball against a good Jacksonville defense. McDermott’s defense held Jacksonville to their lowest postseason point total. If you remember they scored 45 versus the vaunted Steeler defense the next week. They lost because of offense - not coaching and he acted accordingly. I think it’s tough to fault him for losing with this team. You can argue that 2019 is a little different. There were moments when his defense let down the team. People love to blame McDermott, Frazier or Daboll because it’s easy. I think the bigger reason they lost was because of Josh Allen. He completely unraveled and was just (if not more) culpable in blowing the lead, than the defense was. To his credit his scratched and clawed his way into overtime. In the end Houston won, because they had the better QB....at least on that day. If you want to fault McDermott for losing this game, against a team that the Bills were evenly matched against, I feel it’s a little more fair. So I’m not sure if McDermott should be viewed in the same Andy Reid or Marvin Lewis were after 1 postseason loss
Helpmenow Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Is McDermott like former bill head coach Chuck Knox. He gets you so far then that’s it.
BillsVet Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree on the KC defensive gameplan. It was hard to watch but I don't think it was unimaginative at all. It was going against the prevailing wisdom that against those teams you have to try and control the ball, run clock and keep them on the sideline. It was let them restrict their scoring by making them run the clock themselves and keep their score down. And it nearly worked. If our O could have just played a little bit better or if the D could have made a couple of plays it just missed on the near turnover and the long 3rd down where Mahomes just escaped and found Pringle. I get it most fans hate conservative. I don't. There is no single way to win in the NFL and I didn't mind that plan albeit I completely accept it was hard to watch. I'm going to ah, go ahead and disagree (in Bill Lumbergh voice). KC defeated SF's excellent defense in the SB and scored 21 points in the 4th quarter to do so. They racked up 117 points in 3 playoff games last year against 3 very good or better teams. You don't out-defense elite offenses in the modern NFL many game. Defense now is about impact plays like sacks and turnovers. Teams like KC are going to score and the only way to stop them is have more possessions. Going conservative just means you reduce the score in games you'll lose. And that's what McD did on 10/19.
Greg S Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Is McDermott like former bill head coach Chuck Knox. He gets you so far then that’s it. Looking back at 1980, I think if Ferguson isn't playing on basically one leg the Bills beat the Chargers. They probably beat the Raiders in AFC championship game at home and go on to the Super Bowl to play the Eagles. Knox was a good coach and he also like McDermott turned the culture around for the Bills.
GunnerBill Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I'm going to ah, go ahead and disagree (in Bill Lumbergh voice). KC defeated SF's excellent defense in the SB and scored 21 points in the 4th quarter to do so. They racked up 117 points in 3 playoff games last year against 3 very good or better teams. You don't out-defense elite offenses in the modern NFL many game. Defense now is about impact plays like sacks and turnovers. Teams like KC are going to score and the only way to stop them is have more possessions. Going conservative just means you reduce the score in games you'll lose. And that's what McD did on 10/19. There you go see saying there is one way to play defense. It isn't true. There is no single way to win in the NFL. I agree you have to outscore KC. And I don't think the Bills offensive plan that night was good enough... but had it been the defensive plan was certainly giving them a chance. And I don't expect it is the way McDermott ideally would have wanted to play that game either. But he was looking at the pieces he had to match up. He had problems up front on the defensive line, was missing corners and was banged up at linebacker. You might not have liked the plan. That is personal preference. That's fine. I don't accept it was a plan that can simply never succeed. Again most fans hate conservative..... but that doesn't mean it is always the wrong play. 1
Shaw66 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BillsVet said: I'm going to ah, go ahead and disagree (in Bill Lumbergh voice). KC defeated SF's excellent defense in the SB and scored 21 points in the 4th quarter to do so. They racked up 117 points in 3 playoff games last year against 3 very good or better teams. You don't out-defense elite offenses in the modern NFL many game. Defense now is about impact plays like sacks and turnovers. Teams like KC are going to score and the only way to stop them is have more possessions. Going conservative just means you reduce the score in games you'll lose. And that's what McD did on 10/19. I think this is wrong. After their first quarter explosion against the Bucs, the Chiefs had a lot of trouble moving the ball and scoring. They had three punts in the second half, including two three and outs. The average point total for the Super Bowl winner is under 29 points. Only three winners went over 40. That's not a point explosion. And you're wrong about the effect of going conservative. When you go conservative, ball control, run the clock, yes, you reduce the score. But reducing the score has one very important effect, which is that it also reduces the size of the lead in the fourth quarter. If you outscore me 4 to 3, late in a high-scoring game I'm down 40-30. In a low-scoring game I'm down 20-15. Keeping the score low is a time-honored way to stay in games, and being in the game at the end is what coaches want. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And that is for sure a fair question. Especially if they go 1 and done in the post-season again. But putting a below .500 career Head Coach and Mike Vrabel in a list of "elite coaches" come on now. I don't think Vrabel is a great coach..........but he does an extraordinary job of getting his players to assume his personality/mindset. So in big games they are galvanized and a united front. It's something Belichick is GREAT at. There can't be many better coaches in the NFL from Monday thru Saturday than McD............but try as he might the team is always pulling against his leash. I mean..........in that Chargers game in the 4th quarter it felt like they were the anti-McD's.........and McD was watching from afar without much he could do to stop it. I think the only way to correct that is for him to win some playoff games and garner that last level of trust from the players.
hondo in seattle Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 23 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Belichick Tomlin Vrabel Reid Payton Shanahan These are the best coaches in the NFL... They either have next-level smarts or an elite ability to motivate players to perform. McDermott is a solid playoff coach, but not a championship coach, I fear... So Bills fans are like, "We're 8-3! Enjoy it!" But I see a frustrating period of good-but-not-good-enough on the horizon for the foreseeable future. And that's depressing. I am absolutely not of the "Hey, it's Buffalo; at least we're winning" type of mentality. It's championships or nothing. That is the life goal. And with McDermott signing a long-term contract, I almost feel as hopeless as I would if we sucked. If we sucked, at least there would be hope of striking coaching gold on an imminent hire. In this case, though, I feel like we'll just be a solid playoff team for the next many years, but not elite enough to win it all. Guys grow into jobs. Let's remember... McD inherited a crappy Rex Ryan team that Beane dismantled as fast as he could when he came onboard. Still, McD has gone to the playoffs in 2 of 3 years. Belichick, arguably the best coach in NFL history, didn't make it to the playoffs even once his first three years as a head coach. McD is off to a better start. Tomlin inherited a good roster with a strong Bill Cowher culture and a great scouting staff - and kept the machine rolling. Vrabel inherited a 9-7 Mularkey coached teams and brilliantly transformed it into a 9-7 (2018, 2019) Vrable coached team. He's made the playoffs 1 in his first 2 years as a HC. Reid is one of the very best coaches in the NFL and admittedly McD hasn't yet earned the right to be considered in his class. Payton only made the playoffs once in his first three years. And with Payton comes the argument: do QBs make HCs look good or do HCs make QBs look good. Brees is one of the best QBs ever. Shanahan made the playoffs once in his first three years. Incidentally, I can remember when Bills fans didn't want Kyle anywhere on our coaching staff. McD is doing fine. Hopefully, like Belichick and many others, he continues to get better as he gains more experience.
Figster Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnNord said: Andy Reid won his first Super Bowl title and was largely thought of as a “good playoff coach” that couldn’t win in the post-season for over a decade. Everything changed once he found a QB. Reid , Belicheat, Payton, Carroll, Tomlin and the list goes on all have one thing in common. Franchise QB's It took Buffalo almost 2 decades to draft a franchise QB in combination with a top notch HC with a GM on the same page and OP's depressed? The Buffalo Bills are uplifting to me...
Mat68 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: After the trade for Diggs and seeing Allen's improvement this season there's no way I'd accept a playoff appearance. And I don't think anyone at OBD would be satisfied with that either. Nor is winning the division without at least 1 playoff win exceeding expectations. OP said he's concerned about McD because after 60 games as Buffalo's HC he's seen some trends. For me, the game-plan against KC at home 6 weeks ago was indicative of who McD is. It was weak, unimaginative and no one with a pulse believes you can win in the playoffs that way against an elite offense. If you assume Miami, LA Rams, Tennessee, KC, and Seattle make the playoffs, McD will be 6-19 career against teams in the playoffs or who later made the post-season. By contrast, he's 27-9 against non-playoff teams. The AFC is going to feature some excellent QB's in the next few years. There's Burrow, Mayfield, Watson, Mahomes, and perhaps Herbert. You can't pack it in against elite offenses and come out conservative like they did against KC. If the defense makes a play thats a toss up. If Bass played more consistent thats a toss up game. If you keep KC in the 20s thats a game you want. That was a bold strategy, 9 times out of 10 Ried doesnt stay with the run.. He did. 1 possession game when Allen was a little off was actually a good gameplan.
Starr Almighty Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 11:25 AM, BillsFanSD said: Tomlin, Vrabel, Payton, and Shanahan have two SB wins between the four of them. Not sure why you're putting those guys in the same category as Belichick and Reid, and I'm also not sure why you think McD is somehow on a lower rung than them. I mean, Tomlin is like the platonic form of "good but not great." And Reid has 1 not sure why you are putting him with BB
Coffeesforclosers Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Why a portion of this fanbase is so terrified of success, I'll never know.
BillsVet Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 18 minutes ago, Mat68 said: If the defense makes a play thats a toss up. If Bass played more consistent thats a toss up game. If you keep KC in the 20s thats a game you want. That was a bold strategy, 9 times out of 10 Ried doesnt stay with the run.. He did. 1 possession game when Allen was a little off was actually a good gameplan. It doesn't lend credence to your argument employing the word "if" to so many conditions.
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