A Few Thoughts About the Chargers Game, in no particular order

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

 

To throw my two cents in...

 

In real time, I said we were getting a flag the moment I saw Tre hit Herbert. I was surprised to hear they called it on Oliver, and thought they might simply be mistaken, since both were in on the play.

 

The one thing I want to see on a replay is how Ed lands on Herbert.

 

Refs have been flagging defenders for falling directly on the QB and not taking him down to a side.

 

It could be that Ed drove Herbert directly into the ground, and that is why he got flagged. And they let Tre's go because Herbert was outside/running.

 

I cant find a replay anywhere though.

[RevWarRifleman]

Virgil, another good post. I always look for your post after Bills games. Thanks.

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

To throw my two cents in...

 

In real time, I said we were getting a flag the moment I saw Tre hit Herbert. I was surprised to hear they called it on Oliver, and thought they might simply be mistaken, since both were in on the play.

 

The one thing I want to see on a replay is how Ed lands on Herbert.

 

Refs have been flagging defenders for falling directly on the QB and not taking him down to a side.

 

It could be that Ed drove Herbert directly into the ground, and that is why he got flagged. And they let Tre's go because Herbert was outside/running.

 

I cant find a replay anywhere though.

I had the same initial reaction to thinking Tre had just drawn a flag until the pocket rule popped into my head.

 

And I never saw a replay anywhere either; that seems to be a common thread during games this year.

Maybe somebody who recorded the game with one of those DVR thingamjigs can get a better look for us? It was a killer penalty on 3rd down.

 

I will note that I loved Oliver's reaction to the back to back penalties. A lot of young players might hang their heads or complain or do something stupid. But Ed just shut up, nutted up and started making even more plays. That's good stuff right there.

 

[Locomark]

So can anyone yet rationalize why they keep trotting Winters out there week after week ? He sucked yesterday as he does every game. So if we can’t run right then why can’t we find a way to get Ike in there? Is this what Spain meant by there were some weird things going on?  What is Winters in McD’s prayer group ...because he is easily the worst lineman we have in the top 8. 

[TheCockSportif]

Hope you got some rest, @Virgil, and always enjoy reading these.

 

Regarding item #10, for me picking a good QB remains a total crapshoot, and it isn't just the player.  Allen is good, make no mistake in my assessment here, but I'm on the same page with folks like @Shaw66 about there being a combo of things like a good FO, a capable HC, and a QB with the competitive spirit, who works hard, and who tries their best to get this done when it comes to potential QB success or failure.  Ultimately it's slot in the draft, and even then it's a crapshoot.  The Bills, thankfully, didn't pick the BQA, but whatever their model or hunch or whatever -- it seems that they picked correctly.  Whatever the reasons, glad that luck shined on the Bills for a change!

[Like A Mofo]

Bottom Line:

 

The Buffalo Bills are a very good NFL team with a very good coaching staff and GM. A team that has found their QB for the foreseeable future and a  guy to truly build around. They have a true #1 WR, a true #1 CB,an emerging MLB, a DT that can be great down the line (Oliver) and other really good pieces. They have some holes but I believe the heavy lifting has been done to ensure that this franchise can be a contender in 2020 and the next few years. The issues ARE fixable and won't take an act of God to rectify.

 

As for the 2020 version, a division title and a playoff win would be great.

 

Rejoice Bills fans. It hasn't been this good around here in MANY years.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Like A Mofo

[jkeerie]

16 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Good post. 

 

Looked like Edmunds played better today as well... Getting Milano back might push this D over the edge.

Would love to see all 3 LBs on the field, rather than a 5th DB.

[2003Contenders]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think on the question about the offense the plan had to change quickly. I mentioned in the week from watching the Chargers that the deep ball is there against them. It has been in most games they play but they are happy to tease you by leaving it open because they want you taking deep drops to give their edge rushers a shot to make a play. 

 

I think the Bills were trying to take advantage of the deep ball in their plan. But after the first drive with the big PI the next couple of drives brought sacks and they switched to a concerted effort to run aggression beaters. The Chargers ends play the run on the way to the Quarterback so there was an emphasis on using run plays that took advantage of that with the plays where Josh moved the pocket before executing the hand off, the zone reads and then in the pass game the screens and the double pass. It was really well done because it definitely backed the rush off a bit. The Chargers only had one sack in the 2nd half. 

Excellent point. It was clear in the first half that Bosa was going to be a disruption and that Josh would not have the time to get the ball downfield. That probably explains the play that resulted in the INT -- Bosa was out on the field for that play (after having just served up a TFL on the previous play), and the Bills decided to be more aggressive knowing he was on the seideline.  Too bad the protection broke down with the the blind-side blitzer.

[NickelCity]

57 minutes ago, Locomark said:

So can anyone yet rationalize why they keep trotting Winters out there week after week ? He sucked yesterday as he does every game. So if we can’t run right then why can’t we find a way to get Ike in there? Is this what Spain meant by there were some weird things going on?  What is Winters in McD’s prayer group ...because he is easily the worst lineman we have in the top 8. 

 

I can't figure it out. Maybe that they like Feliciano on the left and don't think Ike is much good on the right? I'm dying to see Dawkins-Ike-Morse-Feliciano-Williams

[WideNine]

16 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I thought that the passing game was pretty bad today - I'm not sure how much of that can be chalked up to Brown's absence - but on the INT,  it looked to me as if Allen's arm was hit on the release.

 

It was - Bosa again... I think. Either way someone on the defensive line knocked Allen's arm during his release and on the slow-mo replay you could see this wobbly duck kind of ball fall short of his target. The Bolts have a good 1Tech DT or DTs (wasn't watching rotation) who was getting a lot of push and consistently occupying CG combos freeing up their other DTs and Bosa.

 

They have a pretty good front and did not give Allen a ton of time to wait for deep routes to open up.

 

Not much Allen could do about that one pass - I was fuming at Allen as we were giving the ball back AGAIN till I saw the replay. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by WideNine

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, Like A Mofo said:

Bottom Line:

 

The Buffalo Bills are a very good NFL team with a very good coaching staff and GM. A team that has found their QB for the foreseeable future and a  guy to truly build around. They have a true #1 WR, a true #1 CB,an emerging MLB, a DT that can be great down the line (Oliver) and other really good pieces. They have some holes but I believe the heavy lifting has been done to ensure that this franchise can be a contender in 2020 and the next few years. The issues ARE fixable and won't take an act of God to rectify.

 

As for the 2020 version, a division title and a playoff win would be great.

 

Rejoice Bills fans. It hasn't been this good around here in MANY years.

Actually I’m already getting greedy and I want 2 playoff wins... 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Groin said:

Hope you got some rest, @Virgil, and always enjoy reading these.

 

Regarding item #10, for me picking a good QB remains a total crapshoot, and it isn't just the player.  Allen is good, make no mistake in my assessment here, but I'm on the same page with folks like @Shaw66 about there being a combo of things like a good FO, a capable HC, and a QB with the competitive spirit, who works hard, and who tries their best to get this done when it comes to potential QB success or failure.  Ultimately it's slot in the draft, and even then it's a crapshoot.  The Bills, thankfully, didn't pick the BQA, but whatever their model or hunch or whatever -- it seems that they picked correctly.  Whatever the reasons, glad that luck shined on the Bills for a change!

I think you say it well, and I think it's more of a crapshoot.   I think the whole point of McDermott's system is to identify the kind of person - the work ethic, the commitment, the selflessness - etc. is necessary to succeed at the job he's being asked to do.  Yes, he has to meet some minimum physical standards, but if he's God awful slow, he's not going to be you cornerback.  But once you meet the raw physicality minimums, that McDermott wants you to be the right kind of person. 

 

What McBeane did (that Cleveland, the Giants, maybe the Jets, and the Broncos didn't) was figure out that Allen was the right kind of person.  It was a bonus that his raw physicality was off the charts.  

 

I don't think it was luck.  

 

The opposite is true, also, as you say.  If you're the right package at QB, you still have to land in a place that will nurture you properly.   How you need to be nurtured varies from QB to QB.  I feel really bad for Darnold.  As a rookie, I thought he and Allen were indistinguishable, and I thought they both had bright futures.  From day one, however, Darnold has lived in a dysfunctional environment, and Allen has had mentors building his skills.  Here we are, one and a half seasons beyond their rookie seasons, and the difference in their capabilities couldn't be more apparent.  I think that's in part due to who the two guys are, but I think most of the disparity is caused by the environment created by the owner, GM, HC, and OC.  

 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

It was - Bosa again... I think. Either way someone on the defensive line knocked Allen's arm during his release and on the slow-mo replay you could see this wobbly duck kind of ball fall short of his target. The Bolts have a good 1Tech DT who was getting a lot of push and consistently occupying CG combos freeing up their other DTs and Bosa.

 

 

 

 

I think this making excuses for Allen.  I've watch the replay several times, and yes the defender got a finger or possibly two fingers on Allen's arm, but it's very hard to imagine that the force of that finger made the ball fall two yards short of where it needed to be.  

 

Allen threw the ball under extreme duress to a double covered receiver.   That's a bad decision, all day, every day.  His priority at that point is to throw the ball someplace where only his receiver can touch it, and if he can't find a place where only his receiver can touch it, throw it where NO ONE can touch it.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this making excuses for Allen.  I've watch the replay several times, and yes the defender got a finger or possibly two fingers on Allen's arm, but it's very hard to imagine that the force of that finger made the ball fall two yards short of where it needed to be.  

 

Allen threw the ball under extreme duress to a double covered receiver.   That's a bad decision, all day, every day.  His priority at that point is to throw the ball someplace where only his receiver can touch it, and if he can't find a place where only his receiver can touch it, throw it where NO ONE can touch it.  

 

I agree. Not one to be overly concerned about in the grand scheme but bad decision. Back foot, looked to me at least like he was leaning back, into double coverage.... just a poor decision overall. It happens. QBs, especially ones with a gunslinger mentality like Josh, ocassionally make bad decisions.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this making excuses for Allen.  I've watch the replay several times, and yes the defender got a finger or possibly two fingers on Allen's arm, but it's very hard to imagine that the force of that finger made the ball fall two yards short of where it needed to be.  

 

Allen threw the ball under extreme duress to a double covered receiver.   That's a bad decision, all day, every day.  His priority at that point is to throw the ball someplace where only his receiver can touch it, and if he can't find a place where only his receiver can touch it, throw it where NO ONE can touch it.  

 

We can agree to disagree. Allen rarely throws a ball that wobbles that badly. I don't lean towards making excuses for Allen making bad throws or bad reads, but if your arm is hit on the forward throwing motion, it does throw off a pass.

 

If anything I will say that it was off platform as he was getting pushed and threw off his back foot, but he makes so many of those off platform completions after protection breaks down it is hard to fault him for those that don't get there.

 

Just my take.

Edited November 30, 2020 by WideNine

[Shaw66]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

We can agree to disagree. Allen rarely throws a ball that wobbles that badly. I don't lean towards making excuses for Allen making bad throws or bad reads, but if your arm is hit on the forward throwing motion, it does throw off a pass.

Fine with me.   It was a bang-bang play.   I just think in terms of QB decision making, that was a bad decision. 

 

It would be interesting to know what Allen he thinks.   He knows what effect the hit had on the accuracy of throw.  If he's asked publicly, he'll just say he didn't throw it well enough.  He'll take the blame.   But the truth may be, and knows the truth, exactly what you say - that if that finger hadn't fallen on his arm, he completes that pass. 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Fine with me.   It was a bang-bang play.   I just think in terms of QB decision making, that was a bad decision. 

 

It would be interesting to know what Allen he thinks.   He knows what effect the hit had on the accuracy of throw.  If he's asked publicly, he'll just say he didn't throw it well enough.  He'll take the blame.   But the truth may be, and knows the truth, exactly what you say - that if that finger hadn't fallen on his arm, he completes that pass. 

 

Just edited my post Shaw and included that I did agree that he was throwing off his back foot with poor form, but just that there are so many times he has to throw off platform because of rushers coming free and makes those throws, it is hard to fault him when they don't have enough on them to get there.

 

All in all I think he is taking less of those chances that are really bad, but has not exercised those demons entirely.

 

I can see your point - and the other usual suspects

[Virgil]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this making excuses for Allen.  I've watch the replay several times, and yes the defender got a finger or possibly two fingers on Allen's arm, but it's very hard to imagine that the force of that finger made the ball fall two yards short of where it needed to be.  

 

Allen threw the ball under extreme duress to a double covered receiver.   That's a bad decision, all day, every day.  His priority at that point is to throw the ball someplace where only his receiver can touch it, and if he can't find a place where only his receiver can touch it, throw it where NO ONE can touch it.  

I’m with you.  That was a 2018 Allen mistake.  But, everyone has them.  He’ll get over it 

[Da webster guy]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:44 PM, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

One of those replays that mysteriously got lost.  From what I saw White dragged Herbert down by the ankles from behind as Herbert was running away which is absolutely not the same as illegally hitting the QB low in the pocket.

It was cbs.   Theyre too lazy to run replays.  Its like a high school tv production class only worse.

[Bad Things]

I just finished watching the game and have a thought of my own.

 

The friggin' stadium train horn really needs to go.  It's gotten totally out of hand.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Bad Things