A Few Thoughts About the Chargers Game, in no particular order

[BillsFan619]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

I'm going to be really upfront and say that my brain capacity for this game and thoughts are not 100%.  I pulled an all-nighter for work and slept about 3 hours before kickoff, didn't take notes, and then slept again right after.  With that, I apologize for any blatant misses.

 

1 - Incomplete Games - If there's been one over-arching concern for most fans and the players this season, it's our inability to play 4 full quarters of NFL football.  Typically, we fall asleep in the 3rd quarter, but maybe the bye week has us practice transitioning to the 4th.  In an almost comically bad game of "Who wants to lose it more", the Bills coughed up multiple turnovers in the 4th quarter, with one being an inexcusable interception by Allen.  Fortunately, the Chargers were up to the task and gave the ball right back a few times and going for the 1st when a FG was right there for the taking to make it a one score game.  The refs even got in on the action with some really questionable calls.  This was a game where you have to be thankful we were playing a Chargers team who is still figuring out how to win, or else this could have been another heart breaker.  We are also really lucky we were up by 10 at the end, as defending the hail mary was something Frazier deemed irrelevant somehow after last games loss.

 

2 - Rushing attack - I want to take a moment and assume full responsibility for the Motor's fumble.  After having a couple of strong runs that broke the second level, I was in the process of thinking how great it is he doesn't seem to fumble anymore when....whammo.  That aside, Motor got stronger as the game went on and had one of his better games this season.  But while Motor had the most good runs, Moss had the run of the season in this game.  Moss split the left side of the line, got lost in the trenches, and then somehow emerged with a solid burst.  From there, he put the jets and the moves on for a really great rush.  If we can figure out how to maintain the 4th quarter rushing game, then we will be in much better shape closing out this season.

 

3 - Bosa - It was hard to watch this kid destroy his blocks and not wonder "what if" he were on the Bills.  His disruptive play was almost unfair to our unsuspecting innocent line and he was a terror on Josh too.  We can talk about win rates all we want, but Bosa was the kind of difference everyone wants on their team, and it was obvious all game.  For the offensive line, who had a rough day at times, you just have to tip your cap to the defensive line effort and move on.

 

4 - You keep me up just one more night, I can't sleep here no more.

Little Ben clock says quarter to eight; You kept me up 'till four.

I gotta get down, I gotta get down, Or I can't work there no more.

 

5 - Tre - While I understand that mixing up zone and man defense, and disguising your looks is important, I will always struggle not having Tre shadow the opposing team's #1 receiver.  I thought Tre did a great job when covering Keenan and he only saw success once we transitioned to zone.  Keenan made a few catches, but Tre didn't make them easy.  Of course, the play of the game, which brought the 4th quarter back in order, was the Tre pick.  Interceptions feel a little too rare on this team, and sometimes you need your money guys to make plays, so it was nice to see Tre get that done today.  Solid overall game

 

6 - Receivers - I'm curious to know if the game plan was setup this way, or if the Chargers just took them away from us, but our receivers were never really involved in the game during the first half.  Granted, if you want to count the PI as a passing gain, there was those yards, but there was little else.  Daboll clearly made Diggs a focus coming out of the half, but with Beasley also quiet, Davis ended up being the best receiver on the field.  He did a great job selling the block on the Beasley TD and made a great high-point catch on the deep ball from Josh.  But overall, really pedestrian day for the receivers and passing game today. 

 

7 - Klein - It looks as though Frazier finally figured out how to use Klein, and his skill set is showing because of it. Klein looks so much faster on the field and had a great open field pursuit and tackle on a toss play.  He was solid when rushing the QB and again, just looks a lot more comfortable out there.  When Milano comes back, I like the idea of a LB rotation that puts him on the field in situations that take advantage of his abilities.  I'm still not sold on him in coverage, but I think that's why he struggled to start the season.  Either way, in this new high-pressure defense we are running, Klein is earning that paycheck.

 

8 - Oliver - This might be the first week I've called Oliver out in a positive light.  I would have to see the PF replay again, but I didn't see what the flag was for on first glance.  Oliver was a true disruptor today and was shedding blocks consistently.  He made Herbert have to re-adjust his feed quite a few times and contributed to some negative plays.  I don't know the Chargers track record for their offensive line, but Oliver coming on strong down the stretch would also be a big win for us.

 

9 - McD - Our coach is now 4-0 when coming off the bye, and you could see the team was ready from the start.  The way this team's scheme has evolved throughout the season on offense and defense continues to impress me and I think McD's flexibility and giving autonomy to his coaches really goes a long way.  We've won 8 games in a variety of different ways and this one was no different.  Statistics on offense weren't great, but we still put up 27 points and our defense did well enough to never make the game feel uncomfortable, and more-so responded when the offense tried to give it away.  I'm very curious about a non-challenge though.  Mike William caught a 4th down pass on the sideline and appeared to come down on the ball.  I didn't see if the ball moved, as the camera replay was blocked by players, but I was really surprised that didn't get more attention.  Anyone else have thoughts on that?

 

10 - Beane - Follow me down this rabbit hole please :-).  They were showing highlights of Allen vs Hubert in college, where Oregon just destroyed Wyoming.  Then they were showing completion percentage stats and talking about Allen's development.  Long story short, I don't know of many other GM's and Coaching Staff who've taken a project like Allen who has very little college success and accuracy issues, found the raw talent AND were able to develop it, into the evolving product we have on the field today wearing 17.  It really is an impressive story that rarely works out.  I look at the Bears, who went through so many high pick QB's and still can't figure it out, or think about our last 20 years, and I'm really thankful and appreciative for how all of this played out.  Now if only Allen would stop throwing balls off his back foot into double coverage...I kid....a little...

 

 

Again, sorry for the quality of this one as I'm still not fully awake.  Thank you all for reading and I will see you next week at some time and some place against the Niners.

 

8-3!!!!

 

Go Bill!!!!!

On 2.- I’ll take some responsibility too. I remember thinking during the game, after a good run play, if our running backs have even had a fumble this year but I didn’t say it out loud to my family for obvious reasons. And then, a fumble happened in the fourth quarter. Hahaha!!!

 

On 9.- I wondered the same thing about that catch at first. That said, after that, it seemed like it was a good catch.

 

Great thoughts, Virgil!

Edited November 30, 2020 by BillsFan619

[Penfield45]

I think McD's schemes on defense are great at times, but I think he doesn't have the players to fully execute them .

 

We need more top end talent on defense. right now he is doing his best with a mix of journeymen players and young guys. Beane really did him no favors this past offseason. White and Milano are the 2 most talented guys on that defense, with Hughes coming behind. Hyde has had a disappointing season and is aging quick. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Penfield45

[Bob in NoCal]

Thanks, Virgil. A win is not complete until I have read your thoughts. The defense definitely bailed out the offense today, and that’s very good to see going into the stretch run. Several have mentioned the bs PF call on Moss, but how about the very dubious holding call on Dawkins that negated a critical first down run by Josh?  At the time, the score was 24-17, and the penalty just about took us out of field goal range. Yes, there was another call on the same play, but it was after the play, and it still would have been 1st down with about 3:20 to play and the Chargers out of time-outs. Hope we don’t see this ref crew anytime again soon. 

[loyal2dagame]

8 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

I think McD's schemes on defense are great at times, but I think he doesn't have the players to fully execute them .

 

We need more top end talent on defense. right now he is doing his best with a mix of journeymen players and young guys. Beane really did him no favors this past offseason. White and Milano are the 2 most talented guys on that defense, with Hughes coming behind. Hyde has had a disappointing season and is aging quick. 

While i don't disagree,  to get more "top end talent" on defense,  what top end talent do we want to lose on the offense to clear money?

Diggs?- no way as he's a solid top 5 NFL receiver.  Beasly?- no way as this guy finds ways to get open on a 3rd and 20 or a 4th and 6 plus he makes the catch.   Brown? - no way as the offense seems to not crank without him. 

The Bills Defense is almost completely built by Beane. And for as bad as the defense has seemed at times this year, at 8-3 I'll take it. 

It wasn't too long ago that this board was all about "if we can score more than 20 we win". Now the Bills do(consistently) and the bar keeps moving...........

[Westside Madness]

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

I'm a total Josh fan boy but he deserved his. I still love the attitude anyway.

 

But Moss, WTH did he do? 

 

He threw the ball at the guy who ran him out of bounds. The ref just saw the ball come flying at the player. He didn't see that Moss wasn't even facing that way and just threw the ball behind him...and hit the player. This goes to the point where a flurry of unsportsmanlike conduct calls can change how refs view a team/play.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Westside Madness

[Bermuda Triangle]

I thought that the passing game was pretty bad today - I'm not sure how much of that can be chalked up to Brown's absence - but on the INT,  it looked to me as if Allen's arm was hit on the release.

[Best Williams Available]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

Good post. 

 

Looked like Edmunds played better today as well... Getting Milano back might push this D over the edge.

I agree on Edmunds. He did well against both run and pass (even covered Allen at least 2x). He is maybe the only guy on the team that can put another dude down on his back solo during a tackle.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, loyal2dagame said:

I can't agree here.  The team came out flat.  I thought they looked sluggish all game on both sides of the ball.

The d played great.  The offense had a terrible 7 play stretch that allowed the game not to be a blowout.  

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

 

4 - You keep me up just one more night, I can't sleep here no more.

Little Ben clock says quarter to eight; You kept me up 'till four.

I gotta get down, I gotta get down, Or I can't work there no more.

 

Just wanted to give props for the well placed Cumberland Blues lyrics. Well done.

[Mark Vader]

Good review @Virgil.

 

This was a strange game. The Bills offense did not put up incredible numbers, but at one point they were up 24-6, and had a chance to really dominate today.

Turnovers were a killer. Josh Allen made two big mistakes. The interception was ugly, but the bad snap fumble was worse, Allen just had to fall on the ball and it's over, but he tried to pick the ball up and make a play. Terrible mistake, especially after that heads up great pass to Gabriel Davis.

 

It was an unspectacular day for Allen, yet he made the plays to help get another win.

 

The officials on the Bills Field Goal drive in the 4th quarter were atrocious. How in the Hell was that a penalty on Zack Moss? Worse was the phantom holding call on Dion Dawkins during Allen's first down run. Even if that doesn't get called they still called the personal foul on Gabriel Davis, who did nothing wrong on that play. The Chargers defender and Davis ran into each other, there was no intention on Davis' part on that play. Horrible!

 

AJ Klein is an enigma. He knows how to frustrate you and excite you all in the same play. He did make a couple of big plays today and showed that he belongs on the field and not on the bench.

 

Speaking of the bench, that is exactly where Brian Winters belongs, and I don't think I need to explain why. Go with Ike Boettger from here on.

 

While the defense gave up plenty of yards, they made plays when they needed to and prevented the Chargers from scoring more points.

I don't remember seeing the Bills blitz as much as they did today. I was surprised by that. Even though Herbert was only sacked twice, he was under pressure a lot.

 

Like I said, a strange game. Still it was a win and an important win for the Bills.

 

Finally, that touchdown pass from Beasley to Davis was a beauty. GO BILLS!!!

[Agent 91]

2 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

One of those replays that mysteriously got lost.  From what I saw White dragged Herbert down by the ankles from behind as Herbert was running away which is absolutely not the same as illegally hitting the QB low in the pocket.

I believe the call was on a helmet hit. If this is the same play im thinking of. It was someone at the ankles and then a second hit high

2 hours ago, MJS said:

The QB was out of the pocket so hitting him low was not illegal. They called it on Oliver because he came in "late" after White had already taken him to the ground. I think it was a bad call, or at least quite ticky-tack. I think refs sometimes don't understand how hard it is to arrest your momentum in situations like that. I'm not sure how Oliver could have avoided it hitting the QB there.

 

But I didn't get a great look at it.

 

But the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on Allen and Moss were just head scratching.

I laughed at the Moss one. He threw the ball behind him blindly and hit the defender in the chest with it

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

But the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on Allen and Moss were just head scratching.

 

Spinning the ball in front of a opposing player has been declared taunting and Allen should know that.

 

Moss was an referee reacting what he saw without seeing how a player did it - Moss does not have eyes in back of his head.

2 hours ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

Great question.  Maybe we just got lucky ... like NE did picking Tom Brady.

 

 

No luck. They did their research throughly.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

I'm going to be really upfront and say that my brain capacity for this game and thoughts are not 100%.

 

Hey, Virg.

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

I think McD's schemes on defense are great at times, but I think he doesn't have the players to fully execute them .

 

We need more top end talent on defense. right now he is doing his best with a mix of journeymen players and young guys. Beane really did him no favors this past offseason. White and Milano are the 2 most talented guys on that defense, with Hughes coming behind. Hyde has had a disappointing season and is aging quick. 

 

If you have listened to Bills you know Coach McD has full input to draft - he recommended Beane and they worked together well in Carolina where Beane asked DC for input there.

 

Maybe you need another HOTSEAT post this one on Beane.

45 minutes ago, Agent 91 said:

I laughed at the Moss one. He threw the ball behind him blindly and hit the defender in the chest with it

 

Time for him to throw a TD pass.

[Agent 91]

18 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

If you have listened to Bills you know Coach McD has full input to draft - he recommended Beane and they worked together well in Carolina where Beane asked DC for input there.

 

Maybe you need another HOTSEAT post this one on Beane.

 

Time for him to throw a TD pass.

Lol no look style!

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

If you have listened to Bills you know Coach McD has full input to draft - he recommended Beane and they worked together well in Carolina where Beane asked DC for input there.

 

Maybe you need another HOTSEAT post this one on Beane.

 

 

"Full input to draft"? Not sure what that means. If it means that he can tell Beane what he wants and what he thinks, and that Beane will give it serious consideration, yeah. Beyond that, nobody's ever said anything.

 

In any case, one thing's for sure, and that's that McDermott doesn't have any influence with the Injury Fairy, or for that matter with the COVID Opt-out Pixie. This D would probably look much different with Star in there and if Milano, Edmunds and a slew of CBs hadn't been injured at various points this season.

 

That they seem to be getting better seems to me to indicate that a good part of the problem was the lack of on-field practice time together in the off-season. Particularly at D-line there are a lot of new guys there, and the scheme really only seems to be coming together a bit the last three or four games.

[Virgil]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Hey, Virg.

Hi Daddy

[CSBill]

Thanks Virgil. Good work, half-asleep or not, as always.

[CNYfan]

I think that the overall performance was frustrating.   Love a win but just left me hoping they would be more disciplined and play a little smarter. 

 

Josh especially today with the penalty, the interception and not falling on the bad snap.  Josh is the leader of the team and sets a tone, he has to play smarter. 

 

I think that Brian Winters cannot possibly be the best option at RG.  That is a weak link.  

 

I believe that my curiosity as to whether it was the weather or a missing John Brown that limits offensive production was answered on Sunday.   Smoke15 was obviously missed as those safeties get to concentrate on Diggs14.  

 

At least gone are the days when we can't win for losing, or something like that.   

[fasteddie]

8 hours ago, Bob in NoCal said:

Thanks, Virgil. A win is not complete until I have read your thoughts. The defense definitely bailed out the offense today, and that’s very good to see going into the stretch run. Several have mentioned the bs PF call on Moss, but how about the very dubious holding call on Dawkins that negated a critical first down run by Josh?  At the time, the score was 24-17, and the penalty just about took us out of field goal range. Yes, there was another call on the same play, but it was after the play, and it still would have been 1st down with about 3:20 to play and the Chargers out of time-outs. Hope we don’t see this ref crew anytime again soon. 

As I watched the replay, all I could think of all the times that d linemen getting pushed to the ground and the ref throwing the flag. 99 % of the times it should not be a flag, but the refs blindly (ha ha) throw it anyway, just seeing the aftermath. The talking head refs on TV says they are taught to throw a flag only if the actually "see" the penalty, but they seem to guess on these plays. Makes me want to pull out what little hair I have left.