shoshin Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 8 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: @Muppy what say you? My answer, not that you asked me. Get bipartisan wins and publicize them. “Look what we accomplished together.” Something healthcare. Some infra. A trade bill. Immigration. Debt control. Tax reform to address soaring spending. Complain to the party faithful that this doesn’t go far enough but the parties worked together to take first steps to solving problems. That would remind everyone that we are all together. 1
SoTier Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 19 hours ago, T master said: It would be nice if they could work together for the betterment of all and just interject a little common sense ! The reason why the gov't and the country is so divided is because none of the politicians have the balls to to anything other than the same ole crap lets just follow the map laid out . The life long politicians and others behind the curtain don't care about any of us as the people or the country they live in and the foundations that were laid out that made this country as great as it once was . It's all about what they can do for them to stay in office for the long run so they get their free stuff . Have you ever known a life long politician to complain about anything after they leave office ? No because it's all at our expense they all get real comfy and quite after they leave with all their free stuff until it's time to vote to keep the free bees coming for those that do or don't vote . America has become lazy just ask a young American born and bread of any color to put down their iphone or iPad long enough to do manual labor there are a few out there (thank you to those parents) but not as many as there once was because they have learned or been taught to manipulate (or vote) for what they can get for "FREE" ! Sure there are those that we need to help that have a debilitating disease or some kind of health issue which is no fault of their own those folks truly need our help . It use to be if you wanted to do better or make more money you got another job, worked longer hrs or just showed your company that you were a good worker and worth getting raises from your good work ethic then the person that is not motivated to do any better gets pissed and believes they should get the same even if they don't work for it . Now it's all about what can i get for free ! From what i was taught nothing is ever free it all comes at a cost or sacrifice of some kind ! It's FREE health care, FREE college, FREE SS, FREE citizenship or how many texts can i get away with while i'm on the clock while getting paid or how can i sneak off and take a nap while at work and still get paid for it ? It's no longer what Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" It is now the exact opposite ! Ask not what you can do for the country but what the country can do for you ! Todays new age way of thinking . That's why the country and politicians are so divided because there is a bunch of old school people that got what they have by hard work or getting a good education and being responsible and paying for it then there are those that were raised with this new age thinking . Refer to the sentence before this one . JMHO ! I totally disagree with your assessment for the cause of the division within the country. Every generation has different views about what's important and how to do things because each generation shares different experiences. The "Greatest Generation" was shaped by the Great Depression and World War II but their children, the Baby Boomers, were shaped by the threat of nuclear annihilation and the Vietnam War. Gen Xers, Millennials, and Gen Zers all had their own experiences, too. Members of older generations always think the younger generations are dumber, lazier, more entitled, less motivated than they were. Your reasoning sounds pretty much like an old guy complaining about young guys not being him. The division within the country has its origins in the profound and rapid changes that the US has undergone in the last fifty years. It has become a more diverse country with new groups like women, Blacks, and Hispanics now vying with white males for places at the table. It's likely that the US will become a majority non-white country in the next 30 years or so. The traditional economy of agriculture, manufacturing, and mining (including oil/natural gas extraction) has morphed into a new economy dominated by high tech. The country has become increasingly urban, with 80% of Americans living in urban areas, and the largest urban metros have become richer and younger while rural areas have not only lost population but have become poorer and older. Automation and technology have diminished opportunities for blue-collar/pink collar workers while expanding opportunities for the well educated managers, techies, and innovators. I could go on, but the point is that the kind of fundamental changes we've witnessed in the last half century stem from those who embrace the changes and those who resist them. The rise of 24/7 news and social media only exacerbate the divisions. 1
shoshin Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Childish, but I am going to have a hard time unseeing Matt Goetz as Butthead. 2 1
T master Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, SoTier said: I totally disagree with your assessment for the cause of the division within the country. Every generation has different views about what's important and how to do things because each generation shares different experiences. The "Greatest Generation" was shaped by the Great Depression and World War II but their children, the Baby Boomers, were shaped by the threat of nuclear annihilation and the Vietnam War. Gen Xers, Millennials, and Gen Zers all had their own experiences, too. Members of older generations always think the younger generations are dumber, lazier, more entitled, less motivated than they were. Your reasoning sounds pretty much like an old guy complaining about young guys not being him. The division within the country has its origins in the profound and rapid changes that the US has undergone in the last fifty years. It has become a more diverse country with new groups like women, Blacks, and Hispanics now vying with white males for places at the table. It's likely that the US will become a majority non-white country in the next 30 years or so. The traditional economy of agriculture, manufacturing, and mining (including oil/natural gas extraction) has morphed into a new economy dominated by high tech. The country has become increasingly urban, with 80% of Americans living in urban areas, and the largest urban metros have become richer and younger while rural areas have not only lost population but have become poorer and older. Automation and technology have diminished opportunities for blue-collar/pink collar workers while expanding opportunities for the well educated managers, techies, and innovators. I could go on, but the point is that the kind of fundamental changes we've witnessed in the last half century stem from those who embrace the changes and those who resist them. The rise of 24/7 news and social media only exacerbate the divisions. Yes you are correct each generation is different with out a doubt but a lot of it is because people young and old in general today would rather sit around like zombies starring at their iPhones or iPads to stay in constant touch with the internet than get off their ass and do something physically constructive. It's almost like the Borg on Star Trek . Sure given the virus situation a lot more people are scared to go out so that's one thing but the collective thought of getting paid to do physical labor isn't at the fore front of the younger generations ! I have friends that started on the loading dock and over 25 yrs worked their way to VP in the company . He told me stories of the younger people looking for work . He noticed a group of younger folks outside a employment agency so he decided to go across the street and walked through a line of younger folks that were there (pretending to look for work) i would guess as to continue to get their unemployment or welfare checks but he said he went over and thought i need workers so i'll pass out some cards and he was amazed at some of the questions he got . How many days a week do we "have to" work some only wanted part time work , How many hours a day do you work, his answer was 8 the kid asked "Every day 5 days a week" what time do we have to be at work he said 7:30 the kid asked "every day" & asked Do we have to show up every day at 7:30 ? Needless to say he never got 1 call from any of those younger folks that were supposedly looking for work. Then when some one did come in for a job and got hired they wouldn't show up, or called in sick more than show up or just quit and not say a word , constantly complain about wanting to make more money but not willing to work for it one guy he hired even said he wanted my friends job the VP and the money he made so he asked how do you think i got where i am by sitting on my ass asking for raises ? Some would work just long enough to up their unemployment benny's for another 6 months . Does that sound familiar or wanting $15 a hr to flip burgers ??? Sure there needs to be a wage changes due to the over all cost of things but if i wanted more money i went out and got another job or looked for a job that paid more with a better future and the youth is even to lazy to do that because they would rather hurry home to play video games ! hell i even know younger people that their goal in life is to be the best at Call of Duty WOW that's setting your sights high for your future ... Yes as you said things have changed but the willingness to do manual labor among the younger people has changed drastically and given your reply i will take it that you are much younger than I . My uncle 1 time told me something and truer words have never been told to me he said "What ever you don't learn up here (and pointed to his head) he said you will carry back here (as he pointed to his back) for the rest of your life" Very true so i get it "it is better to work smarter not harder" but if you can honestly think that the physical work ethic of this country hasn't changed you are part of this new mentality in the US. Physical labor among many but not all young people is something they are no longer willing to do to get to where they want to go in life they don't learn to weld, be a carpenter, or tile guy they want to go to college and not have to work to pay for it if at all possible then after expect top wages right off the bat . So to recap you grow up don't have to physically do any thing like chores , you want to not pay for your education but want top money for what ever it is they decide to do weather its flipping burgers or a lawyer . And if you can't find a job in what you want to do or studied in rather than go get hired some where (because there are signs all over of some small businesses hiring) they would rather sit and collect unemployment or food stamps until they get what they think they deserve 😢. Okay sorry for the rant !!! But my shoulders have gotten a lot bigger since posting here and am willing to take criticism. Yes like you said i am that old guy that has busted his ass for every thing i got and paid for it or learned from my short comings !! I have only ever asked for 1 thing 1 time in my life from those (the gov't) that think i need to depend on their intelligence to get by each day because i'm not capable of that but have been fine doing for myself . And still at my advanced age can probably still out work physically most teenagers today . Todays train of thought is no longer like Kennedy proclaimed "It's not what your country can do for you, it's what you can do for your country" it's the exact opposite ! It's not what you can do for your country but what your country (and politicians) can do for you ... Because we live with a entitlement mentality in todays world !
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 4 hours ago, shoshin said: My answer, not that you asked me. Get bipartisan wins and publicize them. “Look what we accomplished together.” Something healthcare. Some infra. A trade bill. Immigration. Debt control. Tax reform to address soaring spending. Complain to the party faithful that this doesn’t go far enough but the parties worked together to take first steps to solving problems. That would remind everyone that we are all together. There is not a chance in hell the things outlined do anything to heal the divide created after the last four years. We had record employment numbers, opportunities for all but the laziest Americans, and the answer was to destroy everything in and around the architect of the plan and characterize his supporters as deplorable and irredeemable. When Biden takes office in January, the only remaining question we have is whether or not dems control the Senate. If they do, the progressives start progressing as elections have consequences. There is no happy medium there. If the dems do not control the senate, the marching orders from the base is 'obstruct'. At the same time, the wise strategy is to attempt to destroy Biden politically, likely through his relationship with China or Iran, and also through the hazy mist of his sons business dealing and personal problems. It's unsavory, but it works. It works so well, a career politician and known groper on the downward slide (mentally speaking)--thrice rejected by his party as a serious presidential candidate because of his penchant for stuffing his foot in his mouth---is about to ascend to the throne. I don't see a political course to unity.
muppy Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: @Muppy what say you? hey, sorry for the late reply. I wanted to pray over this answer because I think it is of utmost importance. Not that my opinion is all that significant in the grand scheme of things but I didnt want to give you my first off the cuff answer. Which was that as far divided as things are I honestly don't know what could/would create a unity of purpose other than either a national disaster like another terrorist attack, nuclear accident, something truly catastrophic which would make political differences pale and bring people as simply human beings together. The solution I will now describe after prayer is this: something would need to go beyond political ideologies because I still no longer see that as being that realistic. Maybe some governmental work can and will get done for the good of america and americans (I HOPE) but things are so adversarial now its a bitter fight to get there and that will not bode well for America in the final analysis IMO Im a Christian and as such my view is going to be stated as a belief that not only is Jesus real but that the Bible says He will return again to rein over the earth as it is in heaven....This to me in not a cop out answer. I seriously doubt that any unity will ever be achieved without some divine intervention. The way things stand now no one side will be happy with the result and they will seethe and scheme and plan for the next opportunity to bring their agenda and ideology to bear. a bitter calm before the next stormy election. Thats my answer what say you leonardo? Edited December 2, 2020 by Muppy
shoshin Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: There is not a chance in hell the things outlined do anything to heal the divide created after the last four years. We had record employment numbers, opportunities for all but the laziest Americans, and the answer was to destroy everything in and around the architect of the plan and characterize his supporters as deplorable and irredeemable. Heal? No. You start with small wins. That's how it starts. 33 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: When Biden takes office in January, the only remaining question we have is whether or not dems control the Senate. If they do, the progressives start progressing as elections have consequences. There is no happy medium there. If the dems do not control the senate, the marching orders from the base is 'obstruct'. At the same time, the wise strategy is to attempt to destroy Biden politically, likely through his relationship with China or Iran, and also through the hazy mist of his sons business dealing and personal problems. It's unsavory, but it works. It works so well, a career politician and known groper on the downward slide (mentally speaking)--thrice rejected by his party as a serious presidential candidate because of his penchant for stuffing his foot in his mouth---is about to ascend to the throne. I don't see a political course to unity. It starts in all our minds.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 40 minutes ago, Muppy said: hey, sorry for the late reply. I wanted to pray over this answer because I think it is of utmost importance. Not that my opinion is all that significant in the grand scheme of things but I didnt want to give you my first off the cuff answer. Which was that as far divided as things are I honestly don't know what could/would create a unity of purpose other than either a national disaster like another terrorist attack, nuclear accident, something truly catastrophic which would make political differences pale and bring people as simply human beings together. The solution I will now describe after prayer is this: something would need to go beyond political ideologies because I still no longer see that as being that realistic. Maybe some governmental work can and will get done for the good of america and americans (I HOPE) but things are so adversarial now its a bitter fight to get there and that will not bode well for America in the final analysis IMO Im a Christian and as such my view is going to be stated as a belief that not only is Jesus real but that the Bible says He will return again to rein over the earth as it is in heaven....This to me in not a cop out answer. I seriously doubt that any unity will ever be achieved without some divine intervention. The way things stand now no one side will be happy with the result and they will seethe and scheme and plan for the next opportunity to bring their agenda and ideology to bear. a bitter calm before the next stormy election. Thats my answer what say you leonardo? First, I really want you to know that your opinion is significant and I appreciate your reply. All joking aside, all we really have is our life experiences, our view of the world, and the thoughts that shape our reply here. I think you're 100% spot on as to what might unify us (absent divine intervention, which I'll address below). Something truly catastrophic would probably do it, at least for a while. Beyond that, there is nothing. Well--check that--if Biden is successful in striking a balance that doesn't %$#@ over many of us, that creates an era of prosperity and hope, and can break beyond the view of most that he's an empty suit and a very dim bulb...that would probably do it. To be honest, I don't really see how we come together. I think that falls less on us (DJT supporters), and more on the other side. Most of us sat in stony silence as Barrack O'Biden did his shtick, waiting for the chance to be heard at the ballot box. We didn't riot, didn't advocate having him dragged out for being an Iranian stooge, just...waited. DJT comes along, gets bashed for his extremely abrasive personality (and that's fair), but we're asked to pretend that Clinton and her ilk weren't waging the same street fight when she leads off with DJT is a racistislamaphobemisogynisthaterofpeoplebabykiller? Remember--at that point, using Christianity as a benchmark--we that voted for lower taxes, reduced regulation and some sort of semblance of order at the southern border that did not resemble a cheap Parisian whorehouse--we had been judge by her as "beyond redemption". Worse, those that supported her agreed. Even worse than that--go figure, that was the high water mark of our relationship over the next four years. Russia? Ukraine? SC justice? Protests? Support the police? Personally speaking, I'm not interested in that sort of relationship politically speaking. It seems very unreasonable. My hope is that we keep the dialogue up on a personal level (most folks aren't out fighting in the streets), we move on as best we can understanding that maybe, over time, we can rebuild some of the trust that has been lost. Thanks again! Leondardo deSmartyoh
shoshin Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think you're 100% spot on as to what might unify us (absent divine intervention, which I'll address below). Something truly catastrophic would probably do it, at least for a while. Your response deserves and hopefully will receive thoughtful replies, but as to the above, my cynical side, which is not my dominant one, says, "I agree. What if a disease came and started killing people. That would surely unite us. No ideology involved. No political agenda. Just a pure and simple virus. We'd all have to be united against that!" $%^&!!
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: Your response deserves and hopefully will receive thoughtful replies, but as to the above, my cynical side, which is not my dominant one, says, "I agree. What if a disease came and started killing people. That would surely unite us. No ideology involved. No political agenda. Just a pure and simple virus. We'd all have to be united against that!" $%^&!! Excellent point! Let me know when that happens! 1
shoshin Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Excellent point! Let me know when that happens! Right now the extremes would politicize an incoming asteroid, arguing over whether it was a Deep State plot therefore fake vs why Trump failed to attach rocket boosters to Nevada to move the earth out of the way. While most of the rest of us would just keep watching it getting closer waiting for Bruce Willis to detonate the nuke. 1
Niagara Bill Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 19 hours ago, Muppy said: hey, sorry for the late reply. I wanted to pray over this answer because I think it is of utmost importance. Not that my opinion is all that significant in the grand scheme of things but I didnt want to give you my first off the cuff answer. Which was that as far divided as things are I honestly don't know what could/would create a unity of purpose other than either a national disaster like another terrorist attack, nuclear accident, something truly catastrophic which would make political differences pale and bring people as simply human beings together. The solution I will now describe after prayer is this: something would need to go beyond political ideologies because I still no longer see that as being that realistic. Maybe some governmental work can and will get done for the good of america and americans (I HOPE) but things are so adversarial now its a bitter fight to get there and that will not bode well for America in the final analysis IMO Im a Christian and as such my view is going to be stated as a belief that not only is Jesus real but that the Bible says He will return again to rein over the earth as it is in heaven....This to me in not a cop out answer. I seriously doubt that any unity will ever be achieved without some divine intervention. The way things stand now no one side will be happy with the result and they will seethe and scheme and plan for the next opportunity to bring their agenda and ideology to bear. a bitter calm before the next stormy election. Thats my answer what say you leonardo? Being a Christian is not an answer...it can be a problem as many Christian are intolerant of others and those who are not. If being a Christian means forcing your beliefs on all others, if being a Christian means not allowing the separation of church and state, if being a Christian means all decisions must be made through the eyes of a religion then it is not possible to have a united country or world as others are often viewed as inferior and wrong. Loving your religion is an incredible life and experience. Using it to justify all decisions in life creates conflicts which are unsolvable. 2
The Frankish Reich Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 12:11 AM, Thurman#1 said: IMO there's no such thing as a Trump-like figure. He's a one-off. Not since Huey P Long. The things that make him so popular, omni-present and hard to beat are his mastery of public relations and his outsider status. There's nobody else out there like that in politics. If there were, he or she would be president if Democrat or a massive and unmistakable figure waiting in the wings and ready to step in if Republican. Agreed. Looking for a more “presidential” Trump is like an NBA team looking for a guy who can bring the defensive and rebounding tenacity of Dennis Rodman without the crazy coming along foe the ride. There is no such player. To play the way he did you had to be nuts, and the nuttiness was there both on and off the court. Trump gained traction because he would say the crazy crap no one was supposed to say. A toned down Trump is Rick Santorum and his 10 percent of the Republican primary vote. As for running in 2024: I think there’s a chance — a slight chance — that the NYC DA and the NYS AG would just leave Trump and the Trump Organization (and Ivanka, Don, Eric, Jared) alone, at least with respect to criminal charges, if they would slink off to Florida and return to private life. Acting like he’s running again just forces their hand — are they really going to let things slide when they know it may very well result in a second successful run? 1
BillStime Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 LMAO Trump supporters are freaking out about Mike Pence running in 2024 Pence is mulling a run for president "after betraying the constitution." - Alex Jones Pence "violated the Constitution by illegally allowing the certification of fraudulent Electoral College votes following the highly contested 2020 election." - Tom Pappert "Vice President Mike Pence had no problem betraying President Trump and the millions of Americans who voted for him by certifying the 2020 election" - Martin Walsh 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, BillStime said: LMAO Trump supporters are freaking out about Mike Pence running in 2024 Pence is mulling a run for president "after betraying the constitution." - Alex Jones Pence "violated the Constitution by illegally allowing the certification of fraudulent Electoral College votes following the highly contested 2020 election." - Tom Pappert "Vice President Mike Pence had no problem betraying President Trump and the millions of Americans who voted for him by certifying the 2020 election" - Martin Walsh Trump.... Pence... ugh the Republican Party as the lone chance of resisting the democrats from robbing us all blind are an unmitigated craptacular disaster both ideologically, intellectually and institutionally. it might just be time to move.
716er Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: it might just be time to move. You can join all the liberals in la-la land who promised to move when Trump was inaugurated.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, 716er said: You can join all the liberals in la-la land who promised to move when Trump was inaugurated. They clearly not only are still here but run the joint and are trying to consolidate power and lock it up in perpetuity. But you’ve got a point, if this is all we have to chose from, why not shop around. I’ve lived abroad. The myth of this country’s superiority is quickly evident when you step off of the plane.
716er Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: The myth of this country’s superiority is quickly evident when you step off of the plane. What about other airports impresses you so much that you conclude the country that airport is in is superior to the United States? 1
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