JGMcD2 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Process said: Where did you see this? Just curious because I can't find any updates on stills. https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/30/kenny-stills-clears-waivers/amp/
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: Sure. We’ve brought in 22 former Panthers (not all of them were there with McDermott/Beane) I started putting the numbers together. 17 former Jets, 16 former Dolphins, 15 former Bengals, 14 former Ravens and Giants. It’s the most from a single team, we’ve brought in, but it’s hardly inordinate. I’m sure if I start looking at other teams there will be high marks. I guess what you’re not recognizing with the camp trash is about 12 of those former Panthers were competing with camp trash for a roster spot, and the next season when we found an upgrade they were let go... In stats.........22 and then a drop-off to a field of 17, 16, 15, 14.........is the definition of "inordinate". 30% more Panthers than the next closest team isn't a thing. Mmmkay. As for your last point..........again.........no perspective to make it relevant. Like how many of the "17 former Jets" were "competing with camp trash" etc.. Show your work if it matters to you. In a league where the average player career is less than 3 seasons...........it's not "nothing" that 4 offseasons into their regime they signed 5 of their former Carolina players to play significant roles and tried to sign another in Greg Olsen. If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it. 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Texans might want him back. Fuller suspended for PEDs. Well I guess we know how Fuller was staying on the field then.
ogham26 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, ngbills said: If Brown is out then this makes sense for the Bills. Even as a 4th WR that can spread the field. He would open up things for Beasley and Diggs much more than Davis is ever going to. davis is pretty good but im all for adding another wr if they think he can help
JGMcD2 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: In stats.........22 and then a drop-off to a field of 17, 16, 15, 14.........is the definition of "inordinate". 30% more Panthers than the next closest team isn't a thing. Mmmkay. As for your last point..........again.........no perspective to make it relevant. Like how many of the "17 former Jets" were "competing with camp trash" etc.. Show your work if it matters to you. In a league where the average player career is less than 3 seasons...........it's not "nothing" that 4 offseasons into their regime they signed 5 of their former Carolina players to play significant roles and tried to sign another in Greg Olsen. If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it. Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially. You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star. Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22... I’ll concede my analysis has been poorly constructed, your feedback has been more than fair on it. It was an attempt at adding context and putting it together quickly. Edited December 1, 2020 by JGMcD2
Jauronimo Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said: Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially. You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star. Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22... They traded for another that was supposed to be starter and was out of league a year later.
JGMcD2 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: They traded for another that was supposed to be starter and was out of league a year later. Benjamin, Star, Williams, Addison, Norman (5). Butler, Marlowe and Klein weren’t signed to be starters. Klein I guess you can argue would technically be a starter even though we play with 2 LB WAY more often than not. I would say Benjamin and Norman are clear busts. Star and Butler have been ok, but leave a lot to be desired. Marlowe has been good in limited action. Williams, Addison, and Klein (now that he’s adjusted to playing a new position without TC) have made a substantial impact. Does someone want to point out who they would have acquired this off-season instead of those players? Because prior to this season they brought in Benjamin and Star to be starters and the other ~14 were depth.
Doc Brown Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, Penfield45 said: It’s actually shocking we have made no moves to try and improve our team through FA or the trade deadline Darron Lee. Duh.
3rdand12 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, HOUSE said: Wasn't he a singer in the 70s? yes I think so
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially. You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star. Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22... I’ll concede my analysis has been poorly constructed, your feedback has been more than fair on it. It was an attempt at adding context and putting it together quickly. Look........I never mentioned "the 22 number" and I never said only 5 of the signings were significant. Star Lotulelei was signed for 5 years and $50M also..........and Kelvin Benjamin cost the Bills $8.5M in 2018 and he was utterly useless and dumped after 12 games. Part of the context is that McBeane couldn't just pick any Carolina player off the Panthers roster or the rosters of Washington(Norman), New Orleans(Klein) or Dallas(Worley)..........the reason why the amount of ex McB Panthers has increased is because they had to wait for them to become expendable..........they have been on that Carolina waste product like white on rice.........it's only now that they can access a lot of them. And it HASN'T been cheap. That said............my point isn't to trash the signings..........I get it, they want players they are familiar with and you don't need playmakers at every position........but honestly the juice hasn't been worth the squeeze so nobody should be alarmed at the criticism. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: Benjamin, Star, Williams, Addison, Norman (5). Butler, Marlowe and Klein weren’t signed to be starters. Klein I guess you can argue would technically be a starter even though we play with 2 LB WAY more often than not. I would say Benjamin and Norman are clear busts. Star and Butler have been ok, but leave a lot to be desired. Marlowe has been good in limited action. Williams, Addison, and Klein (now that he’s adjusted to playing a new position without TC) have made a substantial impact. Does someone want to point out who they would have acquired this off-season instead of those players? Because prior to this season they brought in Benjamin and Star to be starters and the other ~14 were depth. Klein is the 32nd highest paid off-ball LB in the NFL.........for perspective, every team employs AT LEAST 2 starting off-ball LB's. If you include all the 3-4 teams with big money edge rushing LB's........Von Miller, Khalil Mack etc............Klein is STILL the 45th highest paid LB in football. So by any definition he is receiving excellent starting pay for his position. 1
JGMcD2 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Look........I never mentioned "the 22 number" and I never said only 5 of the signings were significant. Star Lotulelei was signed for 5 years and $50M also..........and Kelvin Benjamin cost the Bills $8.5M in 2018 and he was utterly useless and dumped after 12 games. Part of the context is that McBeane couldn't just pick any Carolina player off the Panthers roster or the rosters of Washington(Norman), New Orleans(Klein) or Dallas(Worley)..........the reason why the amount of ex McB Panthers has increased is because they had to wait for them to become expendable..........they have been on that Carolina waste product like white on rice.........it's only now that they can access a lot of them. And it HASN'T been cheap. That said............my point isn't to trash the signings..........I get it, they want players they are familiar with and you don't need playmakers at every position........but honestly the juice hasn't been worth the squeeze so nobody should be alarmed at the criticism. "And of the 20 or so former Carolina free agents they've tried since coming to Buffalo only Daryl Williams and Dean Marlowe have proven worth the investment so far. " You did say this, which sparked my initial post ^ "If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it." Then you also pointed out who's playing significant snaps this season, while also throwing in some hypotheticals. Now I would say guys playing significant snaps like you laid out are significant signings, unless you have another definition? ^ Did they really wait for those players to become available? They didn't have any idea Norman would be released... they didn't jump all over signing AJ Klein in 2017 when he signed with the Saints? They released Marlowe once...I mean if Worley being signed to the practice squad isn't worth the squeeze then.. uh... 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Klein is the 32nd highest paid off-ball LB in the NFL.........for perspective, every team employs AT LEAST 2 starting off-ball LB's. If you include all the 3-4 teams with big money edge rushing LB's........Von Miller, Khalil Mack etc............Klein is STILL the 45th highest paid LB in football. So by any definition he is receiving excellent starting pay for his position. Well then you need to factor in the true value of ALL starting off-ball LBs who are on rookie contracts, because their deals are below market value. You can't combine a free market and the cost controlled draft amounts... it doesn't represent true value. Edited December 1, 2020 by JGMcD2 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: "And of the 20 or so former Carolina free agents they've tried since coming to Buffalo only Daryl Williams and Dean Marlowe have proven worth the investment so far. " You did say this, which sparked my initial post ^ "If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it." Then you also pointed out who's playing significant snaps this season, while also throwing in some hypotheticals. Now I would say guys playing significant snaps like you laid out are significant signings, unless you have another definition? ^ Did they really wait for those players to become available? They didn't have any idea Norman would be released... they didn't jump all over signing AJ Klein in 2017 when he signed with the Saints? They released Marlowe once...I mean if Worley being signed to the practice squad isn't worth the squeeze then.. uh... Well then you need to factor in the true value of ALL starting off-ball LBs who are on rookie contracts, because their deals are below market value. You can't combine a free market and the cost controlled draft amounts... it doesn't represent true value. After AJ Klein the next highest paid LB that is NOT still on their rookie contract is Kyler Fackrell at $4.6M. That is a HUGE drop. $6M is literally the point of demarcation for excellent starting LB pay. You can throw in all the "rookie" starters.......he's still not being paid commensurate to a reserve using any curve or not. Same goes for Josh Norman the NFL's 33rd highest paid CB. These guys were NOT paid that kind of money to be reserves. They have signed a lot of players with expectation of excellent starting performance and though we like the very recent play of Klein.........of all of those they have invested millions in only Daryl Williams has consistently met expectations. It hasn't been a productive avenue for them.
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