The Bills and Patrick Mahomes

[BADOLBILZ]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Any time a person holds a strongly entrenched viewpoint from which they perceive all else, which colors their interpretation of all actions, they become very difficult to have a rational discussion with.

 

 

 

 

And it doesn't get more entrenched than "trust the process".

 

I love me some Josh Allen but any process that leads a QB starved team to first pass on Patrick Mahomes clearly isn't "the" process..........it's "a" process.

 

[without a drought]

If anyone knows someone with a time machine, we could settle this once and for all.

[Shaw66]

Just now, Billl said:

How does this make sense?  The Chiefs traded up to 10 to grab him because they knew the Saints were going to take him at 11.  Those two teams sure as heck weren’t starting over and rebuilding.

I don't know that the Saints were going to take him.   At the time of the draft, no one knew that.  What the article says, and I think it's correct, that there was some expectation that he might fall.  Not that he would, just some expectation that it could happen.  The Bills didn't value him so much to take him at 10.  They would have been willing to take him at the back end of the draft.  That's all.  They didn't care that he might not be there.   He wasn't on their list of people they really wanted.  How does that not make sense.

 

Whether the Saints or the Chiefs were rebuilding has nothing to do with it.   They were where they were in their team building activities; the Bills were in a different place.  All this article says is that there were credible reasons why this organization chose to do what they did.  The reasons make sense, those reasons were directly related to the plan that McDermott had to build the team, and the plan worked.  It all makes sense. 

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The comment isnt about the player. It's about the owner, who is brand new to the league and sport, not meddling and staying out of the way.

If he meddled and we had Patrick Mahomes, I'd consider that a win.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, without a drought said:

If anyone knows someone with a time machine, we could settle this once and for all.

No need for a time machine.  Just ask JoshAllenReceipts.  The source of all truth.

[Nihilarian]

I think the article is a bunch of hooey. Terry Pegula loves his hockey and for the NFL he was a Detroit lions fan. Bigger hockey fan. So, I kind of doubt he even watched much college football to make decision on which QB was the best in the 2017 NFL draft.  The Chicago Bears certainly didn't know. 

 

No QB prior to Mahomes had come from an "air raid" college scheme and had success in the NFL. 

 

Look at the 2017 pre draft rankings by ESPN, Watson #28, Trubisky #42, Mahomes #52. DeShone Kizer #53.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story/_/id/19180310/ranking-top-100-prospects-available-2017-nfl-draft-espn-nfl-nation-reporter-jeff-legwold

 

If the Bills had drafted Mahomes in 2017, who would have developed him...Rick Dennison? Would Kelvin Benjamin have worked out? Hooey!

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

 

[Big C]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's right.  Success isn't measured by your misses.  It's measured by the hits.  

 

The object is to be successful.   It's a fool's game to think the object is to be mistake-free.  

good comment. Time and time again we talk about how a GM will never hit anywhere near 100% of his draft picks. No player is ever a guaranteed hit. Even Manning or Luck. A good GM, like a good investor, manages risk. Mahomes was a risky pick, but our roster and staff wasn’t ready to take on that risk. We were able to get the ship right over the year and then we were ready to start taking some risks in 2018. That’s the way it goes sometimes. 
 

Calling this trade down a miss or a huge error is entirely revisionist history. 

[billieve420]

9 hours ago, HeHateMe said:

Usually I would say your right... but in this case the owner meddling would of netted perhaps the best QB of all time.

Mahomes would have walked into a terrible situation in Buffalo. There was no guarantee things would have turn out the same. Pairing him with Reid who is one of the best offensive minds in the business. In addition, surrounding him with a playoff caliber team made the transition easy for Mahomes.

Edited November 26, 2020 by billieve420

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Had they hired a GM before McD perhaps they take Mahomes....McD wasn’t going to do that without having his GM in place. Pegula should only blame himself.... It was an odd way to go about hiring a head coach. 

 

Organizational front office dynamics in early 2017 were extremely odd.  But that was a result of the Pegula's never quite understanding how to time hires.  For example, when the new owners came on scene in 2014 they had every opportunity to get it right and failed.  Carrying Whaley over and having the same plans with Marrone maintained the dysfunction.  The answer would have been to hire a GM and a HC after their first season (2015) and move from there.  Yet, they allowed Dugout Doug and Wrex to co-exist was one of the biggest mistakes they made, leading to the need to hire someone strong in McD.  

 

Obviously it's settled down with McD paired with his guy Beane.  I wish it wouldn't have taken them 2+ years to figure out people like Brandon and Whaley were leading them down a dark path.  

 

 

[QLBillsFan]

Mahomes is great and he has a SB. AR is a Hall of Fame coach and developed Mahomes. As of now KC got over. They certainly seem to be the winner of the trade as of now. Super interesting article from Tyler Dunne on Pegula.
 

We essentially got TW and JA. The complete story has yet to be written. It’s possible that Mahomes doesn’t peak so early as he did with KC and just now would be coming around with current weapons on Bills. Several have posted this. The huge contract Mahomes now has will challenge the cap for many years. It seems if the Bills can strike this year or next it’s the best window. After that we are in the same boat as the other teams with “franchise “ QB’s. The good news is that we have one. Essentially for the next ten years we are one of 8-10 teams who can really contend for a SB. Isn’t that what we wanted for the past 20 years 🤷🏻‍♂️?

 

So while I marvel at Mahomes at the same time I know we have a shot for a good long time. Why not this year ?

[QLBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I think the article is a bunch of hooey. Terry Pegula loves his hockey and for the NFL he was a Detroit lions fan. Bigger hockey fan. So, I kind of doubt he even watched much college football to make decision on which QB was the best in the 2017 NFL draft.  The Chicago Bears certainly didn't know. 

 

No QB prior to Mahomes had come from an "air raid" college scheme and had success in the NFL. 

 

 

 

 

 

Your spot on about TT and air raid. I think about a half dozen gunslingers from that program put up huge stats but flamed out in the NFL. And the experts had a full range of questions about Mahomes. 
 

Disagree on the Tyler Dunne article. He has Whaley and Monos directly stating Pegula’s  high interest on Mahomes. TD is well respected and had the guts to run a less than favorable article on Rodgers of the Pack a few years back. 

[BillsFan619]

7 hours ago, Big C said:

good comment. Time and time again we talk about how a GM will never hit anywhere near 100% of his draft picks. No player is ever a guaranteed hit. Even Manning or Luck. A good GM, like a good investor, manages risk. Mahomes was a risky pick, but our roster and staff wasn’t ready to take on that risk. We were able to get the ship right over the year and then we were ready to start taking some risks in 2018. That’s the way it goes sometimes. 
 

Calling this trade down a miss or a huge error is entirely revisionist history. 

What you shared was very good and thought out, Big C.

 

To your point, not everything is as black-and-white as some want to make it out to be. Sometimes there are really good reasons why a decision is made even if the decision doesn’t make sense to people like us who aren’t behind the scenes.

[machine gun kelly]

I’m not sure why some keep restarting the same thread with different ways to ask the question.  A month or two ago, it was would you rather have Tre White and Allen, or Mahomes.  It’s a moot point.  He’s there, and we have our two guys here.  I’m happy Mahomes is doing well and seems to be a class act.  I also love our guys.  Allen fits very well for our culture, town, and hope he retires a Bill.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Patrick Mahomes would’ve walked into our situation and been just as great. Why lie to ourselves?

 

That being said I’m loving Josh Allen and I think he’s still not done developing and has the inside track on being the #2nd best QB in this league for a long time. I’m so happy with him and his development. 
 

EDIT: Plus we got the best CB in the NFL out of the deal too!

Edited November 26, 2020 by FeelingOnYouboty

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We get this story all the time from ex-Bills FO people.

 

We loved Roethlisberger, we liked Jay Cutler, we were going to draft Russell Wilson.

 

But more often than not we’ve picked Sammy Watkins instead of Khalil Mack, or Donte Whitner over Haloti Ngata. 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We get this story all the time from ex-Bills FO people.

 

We loved Roethlisberger, we liked Jay Cutler, we were going to draft Russell Wilson.

 

But more often than not we’ve picked Sammy Watkins instead of Khalil Mack, or Donte Whitner over Haloti Ngata. 

Or the fact that right after they drafted Sammy Watkins @#4 overall they were stating "we are still looking for that big, tall red zone target".

 

Drafted @ #7 Mike Evans says hello...6''5'' 231lbs. 

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Or the fact that right after they drafted Sammy Watkins @#4 overall they were stating "we are still looking for that big, tall red zone target".

 

Drafted @ #7 Mike Evans says hello...6''5'' 231lbs. 

 

 

Just because it’s thanksgiving I’ll play.  The one that erked me was 2003 McGahee pic, when Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark, and Nandi Asomugha.  He has to sit for a year, gave maybe one decent performance and cried out the door to Baltimore how boring and how much Buffalo sucked.  He is the antithesis of thankful given our team was stupid (thanks Tom Idunno) for taking a guy who could have been a career ended knee problem in the first round, and paid for a year to sit in the training room.

[whorlnut]

22 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Is this sarcasm?  Mahomes is very possibly on his way to GOAT status.  Nothing lucky about missing out on him.

I’m tired of this talk. Mahomes would not have found the success here that he has found in KC. No way he would he have been good with the supporting cast and coaching that was here at the time. You don’t just take a guy that was put into a great situation and put him in a bad one and expect the same results.

[JohnNord]

This article was ok.  It wasn’t as amazing as some on Twitter thought, a little overrated.  It was long and bloated.  
 

Isn’t it funny how all former Bills GM’s were *this* close to making the right decision.

 

- Buddy Nix was all on board for drafting Russell Wilson....yet he took TJ Graham before him

 

- Doug Whaley wanted Khalil Mack....but Marrone insisted he drafted offense so they took Sammy Watkins.

 

- Whaley had a 3rd/4th round grade on EJ Manual and publicly said he was behind the pick when things were good...yet since EJ sucked it was all Buddy’s doing.  Not his.  

I

The revisionist history here is crazy

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Crummy article! Sources? Warner? Monos? Whaley? And, it's all this retrospective woulda, shoulda, coulda nonsense that almost guarantees certainty. Nothing to see here, save yourself the time. Just more of the Mahomes is great, Pegula knew he was going to be great, if only the Bills had drafted him we'd be SB Champs by now. And, even though Josh Allen has had some good games he's a major question mark because he doesn't fit the Warner mold. Well don't you think every QB is a question mark as to whether they'll win a SB? Using the foregone conclusion that Mahomes is going to win like Brady and then using that as the measuring stick is ridiculous. The whole implication is we shoulda listened to Terry, drafted Mahomes, and be living in the promised land now. Talk about a reach! I wonder if Terry has the same foresight with regard to the Sabres? Yeah I thought so.