The Bills and Patrick Mahomes

[eball]

I’ve liked Ty Dunne’s stuff, and the article is well written, but it left me feeling a bit depressed and uncertain of how much to believe.

 

I don’t doubt the stuff about Pegula loving Mahomes and while there is a tinge of “what if” I’m glad Pegs let the football guys make the decisions.

 

At the end of the day the article doesn’t paint McD in a good light at all, but how much of what two guys who got fired (Whaley and Monos) said are we really supposed to believe?

 

I didn’t really like Warner before I read this article and I like him less after reading it.  What a pompous know-it-all.  I guess we can look back and enjoy the first four weeks of the season, knowing that Josh Allen can’t process defenses and was only taking advantage of “easy” situations.

 

I should have stayed on my bye week.

[BillsFan619]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Oh, my, what is all this nonsense?

 

Anyway, I'll say this about Mahomes:  I'm not ready to call him the GOAT or any other farm animal.  Mahomes has a great arm, a great array of throws, and he has shown excellent decision making and judgment under fire.  All great characteristics.   He also has a great coach and great skill position players.  He needs Reid to hang around for another ten years.  

 

I think it is very likely that Mahomes wouldn't have been Mahomes in Buffalo, at least not as quickly as he's risen in KC.  For the last three years, no one has gotten as many easy throws as Mahomes.   What Mahomes brings to the table is that besides all the easy throws he gets, he's able to make some incredibly difficult ones.  On most other teams, including the Bills three years ago, he would have had to make a lot more really difficult throws.  

 

If the Bills were in their third year of Josh Rosen hadn't yet made it over .500, I'd join in the chorus lamenting the trade down.  But the Bills are in their fourth of a head coach who knew exactly what he was doing, and the Bills are in their third year of Josh Allen, and I am absolutely, perfectly, fine with that. 

Exactly! You took the words right out of my mouth, except, you said it better.

Edited November 25, 2020 by BillsFan619

[JoshAllenReceipts]

14 minutes ago, eball said:

 

 

I didn’t really like Warner before I read this article and I like him less after reading it.  What a pompous know-it-all.  I guess we can look back and enjoy the first four weeks of the season, knowing that Josh Allen can’t process defenses and was only taking advantage of “easy” situations.

 

I should have stayed on my bye week.

 

 

Exactly. This article makes Kurt Warner look really really bad. "Pompous know-it-all" is how he comes across.

 

And to the people saying this isn't a hit piece on Allen....you might want to read the article in greater detail, and look at the bigger picture. This article is insinuating that if Allen doesn't win the Super Bowl...it's HIS fault, rather than all the clear deficiencies holding the Bills back that have nothing to do with Josh Allen (Bad defense, Bad RB play, Bad TE play)

 

The reality with the Buffalo Bills is that the QB himself is great, but there are critical flaws all over the roster that Allen has to overcome in order to carry his team to victory.

[GoBills808]

Weird article. 

[JoshAllenReceipts]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Weird article. 

 

 

Fake/fabricated article.

 

I have insider knowledge.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

To be fair, being “connected on LinkedIn” doesn’t mean much.

It does when trolling. And he’s got that handled.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

 

Fake/fabricated article.

 

I have insider knowledge.

I don't know about fake, but the tone is weird...a Whaley apology plus backhanded Allen hit piece that quotes Morse but not Dawkins and a rookie RB who's hardly played? 

[RochesterLifer]

24 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

And to the people saying this isn't a hit piece on Allen....you might want to read the article in greater detail, and look at the bigger picture.

 I'm pretty comfortable with my reading comprehension skills and do not feel the need to reread the article "in greater detail". While I may not possess glamorous LinkedIn connections, my literacy level is just fine, thank you. 

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, gotme365 said:

According to this article Pegula really wanted Mahomes. I love Josh but reading this made me really sad.

 

https://golongtd.substack.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen

I like Ty Dunne but I would put him in the same boat with Matthew Fairburn as reporters who are out to prove that McDermott isn’t as good as the praise he receives around the league

 

There’s a ton of revisionist history with Mahomes.  I can completely believe that Terry wanted to draft him but didn’t want to usurp his newly higher Ed coach (something another Bills owner had no problem doing).  
 

The reasons why the Bills didn’t draft Mahomes have been discussed many times.  It had to do more with the fact that McDermott didn’t trust Whaley who was about to be fired and had pretty lousy at his job.  
 

In the end it was the wrong.  Knowing what he turned into the Bills should’ve drafted him, but again... in hindsight Mahomes would’ve been an easy #1 pick if we knew his potential.  

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

That's not what the article says.  It says Whaley and Monos wanted to trade down and get Mahomes at 27 or get a QB the following year.  That was their recommendation to the Pegulas. Terry was the one who wanted Mahomes so badly that he'd do it at 10.  So Monos is admitting that he and Whaley may have had it wrong and Terry alone understood what Mahomes would become.   

 

It's also very interesting to think that if the Pegulas had chosen Anthony Lynn, he would have taken Mahomes.  

I'm guessing the Pegulas felt the same way I did when it came to Lynn:  I didn't want ANYONE associated with Rex Ryan.  

[BillsFanSD]

4 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

imho, Allen is still getting better, and will ultimately be comprable to PM as an NFL QB.  He has the head and the physical tools to do it.  My heartburn, assuming both are extremely capable, is that Buffalo paid a huge price in draft choices to get Allen, whereas they could have had PM for their #12 that year, and kept all those other choices.  The team, then, might be better right now than it is....via more higher draft choice populating other positions.

No.

 

My son and I were just talking about this last night.  Neither of us could recall what we traded away to move up to get Allen, and we both agreed that whatever it was, it was a steal.  We landed a guy who we would not now trade away for three first round picks.  Whatever draft capital it took to land him is trivial.

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'm guessing the Pegulas felt the same way I did when it came to Lynn:  I didn't want ANYONE associated with Rex Ryan.  

I don't know that I actually felt that way, but the association with Rex certainly didn't help his candidacy. 

 

I admit to not knowing much about Lynn at the time.  The league obviously knew about him - it took the Chargers no time to go get him. 

 

It is fun to speculate what the Bills might have been like with Lynn and Mahomes.  

[HappyDays]

Yeah, I don't buy it. Whaley and Monos loved Mahomes and thought he was easily the best QB, but also they planned to trade down to 27 and hope he was still there? Sure. It's easy for then to say that now when their job isn't on the line. I can believe Pegula liked Mahomes but I'm also glad he didn't meddle.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, eball said:

I’ve liked Ty Dunne’s stuff, and the article is well written, but it left me feeling a bit depressed and uncertain of how much to believe.

 

I don’t doubt the stuff about Pegula loving Mahomes and while there is a tinge of “what if” I’m glad Pegs let the football guys make the decisions.

 

At the end of the day the article doesn’t paint McD in a good light at all, but how much of what two guys who got fired (Whaley and Monos) said are we really supposed to believe?

 

I didn’t really like Warner before I read this article and I like him less after reading it.  What a pompous know-it-all.  I guess we can look back and enjoy the first four weeks of the season, knowing that Josh Allen can’t process defenses and was only taking advantage of “easy” situations.

 

I should have stayed on my bye week.

 

I don't really read that as McDermott looking bad, simply having a different plan of attack than they did. Even Whaley admitted his plan was legitimate.

 

Who knows what would have happened if we drafted Mahomes...would we have ruined him with Dennison in year 1?

 

Would he have done well enough so that Dennison would not have gotten fired and we would still be dealing with a lesser version of him than what he could be?

 

So many unknown variables and truth be told I am happy with where we are now. Allen will lead this team to a Super Bowl before it is all said and done, I firmly believe that.

Edited November 25, 2020 by matter2003

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

This thread is awesome.

 

@JoshAllenReceipts is like some weird conspiracy theorist who pivoted from the Trump administration to the Bills administration.

BRAVO!

 

One of the all-time great internet forum posts of all time.  

 

As they say, with all jokes there's at a little bit of truth in there somewhere.  

 

Nicely done.  

[1st&ten]

26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know that I actually felt that way, but the association with Rex certainly didn't help his candidacy. 

 

I admit to not knowing much about Lynn at the time.  The league obviously knew about him - it took the Chargers no time to go get him. 

 

It is fun to speculate what the Bills might have been like with Lynn and Mahomes.  

I remember seeing one article at the time that Mr Pegulas really liked Lynn but maybe the GM convinced him to go in a different direction.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Yeah, I don't buy it. Whaley and Monos loved Mahomes and thought he was easily the best QB, but also they planned to trade down to 27 and hope he was still there? Sure. It's easy for then to say that now when their job isn't on the line. I can believe Pegula liked Mahomes but I'm also glad he didn't meddle.

I think you're misconstruing what he's saying about Whaley and Monos.  What he's saying is that they liked Mahomes the same way everyone else thought the league loved Mahomes - as late first round, early second round pick.   Intriguing arm talent and personality, but a guy who looked like he was just the product of a system, not a star in his own right.  There were doubts that he could translate his college success to the pros.  Whaley and Monos were saying that there was more value in trading back and maybe getting him anyway.  They weren't saying he was great.  

 

If they were saying he was great, they would have taken him at 10.   Heck, if you think the guy is great AND your owner thinks he's great, why in the world would you trade?   

 

It is, in the opposite direction, what happened with the Bills and Allen.   The Bills traded a lot of trade capital (which they could afford to do because of the KC deal) to move up.  With whom did they trade?   Denver who like the Bills a year before, needed a quarterback and somehow convinced themselves that they could get better value by trading back, getting some good picks, and still having a QB fall (Allen or Rosen) to them.  Exact same choice.  Mahomes didn't fall to 27, and Allen and Rosen didn't fall to 12.  Bills didn't get Mahomes, Broncos didn't get Allen.  Twenty years from now, when people are writing about the history of this golden age of quarterbacks, part II, the stars of the history are going to Mahomes and Allen and one or two others, and they will write about the irony of the Bills trading back and missing Mahomes and then trading up to Allen.  

[1st&ten]

Didn't have time to read the whole thread so might have already been mentioned but can you imagine what Josh Allen would look like if he was the KC QB ?

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

He didn't want a QB at 10 because of the signal it would send to his team.   He wanted his team to believe they could win now, and drafting a QB at 10 would say they were starting over. 

 

I don't buy that part of the article either. If he wanted the team to believe they were trying to win now, why trade Watkins and Darby? Why trade down for future picks instead of taking the BPA? Nothing about that makes any sense. In the first 2 years of the regime McDermott constantly talked about accepting pain now for success later. It was never a question that he was building for the future.

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're misconstruing what he's saying about Whaley and Monos.

 

Seems to me like the point of the article is "the Bills would have taken Mahomes at 10 if McDermott wasn't involved." But the quotes from Whaley and Monos don't indicate that at all. All we've learned is that Pegula liked Mahomes enough to take him at 10 but no one else involved in the decision did. Okay? I think it's telling that McDermott isn't quoted in this article. If he was he would have contradicted everything that was said.

[oldmanfan]

Thinking back to the day Mahomes had a lot of supposed negatives.  Played in the spread all the time, concerns about footwork, and such.  With very very few exceptions no one foresaw how good he would be.  And now in hindsight you have all these folks saying they knew he’d be the bomb.

 

Kind of similar to Josh.  How many people blasted him when he came out, inaccurate, small college pedigree, etc. and now hail him as a savior of the franchise?

 

I wanted Watson in the Mahomes draft.  But as it turns out I’m happy we got Josh and Tre.