The Bills and Patrick Mahomes

[JoshAllenReceipts]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

I actually really liked the “one man optical illusion. He is whatever you choose to see” line. It’s probably the best description of the last 2 years of Allen’s career. I don’t think there is a ton of debate on how well he has performed when you look at the season as a whole. 
 

In regards to the Mahomes trade. I think this story uses some more aggressive language, but we’ve known for a while that Whaley and Co wanted either Mahomes or Watson. It’s been covered since  draft day. 

 

Except he's not an optical illusion at all.

 

He is what everyone sees - a great NFL QB.

 

You do realize that calling him an "optimal illusion" is a diss, right?

 

Is Patrick Mahomes an optical illusion? Is Russell Wilson an optical illusion? Is Aaron Rodgers an optical illusion? Clearly, no. And neither is Allen. They're all just great QBs - there is no illusion.

 

 

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

 

1000% wrong

 

 

Just look at the picture of the article. It's a pic of Allen on the back of a buffalo. The inference is that Bufallo carries Allen. 

 

The exact inverse is the truth here, actually: Josh Allen carries Buffallo on his back.

 

The picture should be a buffalo on the back of Josh Allen.

Edited November 27, 2020 by JoshAllenReceipts

[JoshAllenReceipts]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, RochesterLifer said:

 I'm pretty comfortable with my reading comprehension skills and do not feel the need to reread the article "in greater detail". While I may not possess glamorous LinkedIn connections, my literacy level is just fine, thank you. 

 

 

No offense but, you do have reading problems if you can't see that this is clearly a hit piece on Allen.

 

Read the article again. More carefully this time. You'll see it....hopefully.

[Doc]

Good to hear that Terry liked Mahomes.  I'm fine with Josh and would like to see him in Reid's/the Chief's system, and would have liked to see Mahomes in the Bills' offense the previous in 2017 and 2018. 

[purple haze]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:17 AM, Chuck Wagon said:

My god, I could not imagine being in Pegula's shoes, knowing you desperately wanted Mahomes but allowed your football people to do their job and now you are forced to watch him ascend to potentially the GOAT status from a distance on a pick you traded away.

At the same time, situations are different.  Was Andy Reid on McDermott’s staff?  Did the Bills have the same offensive pieces?  Mahomes is great in KC.  Doesn’t mean the Bills situation would have led to the same success at an early stage of his career.  

[Mango]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:56 PM, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

Just take my word for it. Me and Tyler Dunne are connected on LinkedIn. He knows me. I have inside info.

 

I already put this on my mother and grandmother's grave. Take it or leave it..

 

Either believe in the truth, or believe in total BS. Choice is yours.

I just added him on LinkedIn and he accepted. Can I start posting gibberish too now?

[JoshAllenReceipts]

43 minutes ago, Mango said:

I just added him on LinkedIn and he accepted. Can I start posting gibberish too now?

 

I'm not posting jibberish.

 

I'm posting facts.

 

LinkedIn isn't the ONLY connection between me and Dunne. That's just 1 of them. You're just choosing to focus on that 1 little snippet, not realizing it goes much deeper than that.

 

Either way, I am 1000% correct and this is not up for debate. Uve got 2 choices:

 

1) Believe in a complete lie (the article)

 

2) Believe in the complete truth (what Im telling you as an insider with inside info)

 

Choice is yours.

 

 

52 minutes ago, purple haze said:

At the same time, situations are different.  Was Andy Reid on McDermott’s staff?  Did the Bills have the same offensive pieces?  Mahomes is great in KC.  Doesn’t mean the Bills situation would have led to the same success at an early stage of his career.  

 

Exactly. Mahomes probably would not be great if drafted by Buffalo. Allen is still the more talented QB.

Edited November 27, 2020 by JoshAllenReceipts

[stuvian]

only SB win will quell the chatter and it is now within the realm of reality

[purple haze]

15 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

I'm not posting jibberish.

 

I'm posting facts.

 

LinkedIn isn't the ONLY connection between me and Dunne. That's just 1 of them. You're just choosing to focus on that 1 little snippet, not realizing it goes much deeper than that.

 

Either way, I am 1000% correct and this is not up for debate. Uve got 2 choices:

 

1) Believe in a complete lie (the article)

 

2) Believe in the complete truth (what Im telling you as an insider with inside info)

 

Choice is yours.

 

 

 

Exactly. Mahomes probably would not be great if drafted by Buffalo. Allen is still the more talented QB.

More talented in what way?  As physically talented?  Yes.  As good?  Not yet.  

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Good article.  I doubt the Bills would have played out the same way in fact they probably would have ruined Mahomes.  Andy Reid was the right coach for him.  On the other hand Allen is a Buffalo QB.  I think it played out well.

 

 

Or.........

 

Tyrod gets benched for Mahomes in Saints game in 2017.

 

Mahomes plays well........Dennison talks McDermott into making Mahomes the starting QB........Mahomes throws 5 TD's in the first half against the Chargers and Bills go on a tear from there........Bills go on Marrone's run instead of the Jags and make it to the AFC Championship in Mahomes' rookie year.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It really is. I swear we have people who seek negative comments about Allen and then obsess over them and tune out the positive. 

 

I have asked it before and it is not fair for me to definitively state it having never been there but I get the sense it might be a Buffalo thing? That maybe some Bills fans kinda prefer being cast as the overlooked underdog that is railing against the system and cling to that a bit? I might be totally off base but that is a bit how it feels.

 

 

 

Extremes.........like "the drought" for Bills fans........tend to cause radical mindsets.........which is how Bills fans got the "mafia"-like reputation.

 

There are a lot of people in the media who just don't think it's worth the time or emotional distress on their social media accounts to criticize the Bills....so it's not totally ineffective.

 

But this is a closed circle of fans here.........there are only a handful of non-Bills fans involved in the discussion........we don't really need to be screaming "fake news!" at each other.

 

 

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It really is. I swear we have people who seek negative comments about Allen and then obsess over them and tune out the positive. 

 

I have asked it before and it is not fair for me to definitively state it having never been there but I get the sense it might be a Buffalo thing? That maybe some Bills fans kinda prefer being cast as the overlooked underdog that is railing against the system and cling to that a bit? I might be totally off base but that is a bit how it feels.

 

There are people in NFL organisations who believe close to this. Not that Allen is a product of a system as such but he has benefitted greatly from a stable organisation with a buttoned up Head Coach, a GM who has put pieces around him and the same OC to develop him for 3 years. It is why Brian Daboll, whatever Bills fans do or don't like about him, is going to be on a lot of HC interview lists in 6 weeks time.

I think you're correct about these things. 

 

The level of stomach upset this article has caused, or this discussion, is really surprising to me.  I read the article, quickly, I'll admit, and got no impression that it was any kind of hit job on Allen, McDermott or anyone else.  It's just some history that Dunne wrote based on some conversations he had with guys who were involved with managing the team at what is now an interesting point in the history of the Bills.  

 

I agreed with the post that recited the Michael Jordan draft history.  If you're a team that passed on Jordan and you sucked for the next ten years, well, yeah, then it's fair to sit around and talk about what a monumental screwup that was.   But if you skipped Jordan and built a winner with other players, it's fun to talk about the what-ifs.   We all can argue about whether the Bills have built a winner - some might say it's too early and some others might say it's only a matter of time, but the Bills are much closer to having built a winner than maybe any of us imagined.  And I think that is exactly the perspective that the article takes.  It's not suggesting the Bills are doomed because they passed on Mahomes; to the contrary, to the extent it talks about the present, it acknowledges that it looks like the Bills have something special happening. 

 

Mahomes looks like an extraordinary talent, once in a generation or once in a lifetime, maybe the absolute GOAT, and from that perspective, anyone who didn't take him blew it.   But dozens of fan bases are in that situation with Mahomes or Jordan or Brady or name a few others.  I really don't think that's the point.  The only question is "how is your team doing," and in the case of the Bills, the answer is "just fine, thank you."  

 

It may be a Bills thing, borne of decades of failure, including the failure of Kelly's teams to take the final step, and even the failure of the Bills to make it to Super Bowl I.   Even in the Bills' greatest eras, they didn't quite make it.  Then, on top of all that history, we had the drought and the scorn of pretty much all NFL fans outside of Bills fans.  Nobody treated the Bills like they were relevant, and it continues to be somewhat true with the Bills at 7-3.  I think some Bills fans may have come to believe all that crap from around the country and from the press, and it shows up in threads like this.  

 

If the Bills are a top team for the next ten years, which I think they will be if McBeane stay, and if Allen is a top 5 QB for the next ten years, which I think he will be, and if the Chiefs and Mahomes are there, too, which also is a good bet, no one is going to be sitting around bemoaning the fact that the Bills didn't take Mahomes.  No one.  Do you think there are any Colts fans who, when they reminisce, are saying "Heck, the Colts should have passed on Manning and taken Charles Woodson instead, then taken Brady a couple of years later"?   I mean, that's ridiculous.  

 

This is just an article about history, and interesting little period of history.  It's not an article that is anything more than incidentally critical about anyone, including McDermott and Allen.  

[PrimeTime101]

[JoshAllenReceipts]

26 minutes ago, purple haze said:

More talented in what way?  As physically talented?  Yes.  As good?  Not yet.  

 

Allen is MORE physically talented than Mahomes, not "as". 

 

1) The ability to run with the ball and pick up short-yardage runs (3rd and 1, 4th and 1). QB Power is in the playbook.

 

2) Stronger velocity on his throws outside the hash marks

 

3) Does it without Andy Reid, the Godfather of the West Coast Offense. Carries his entire city and organization on his back - Mahomes does not do that. Kansas City is Mahomes and Reid. Buffalo is just Allen. Allen has no Andy Reid.

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're correct about these things. 

 

The level of stomach upset this article has caused, or this discussion, is really surprising to me.  I read the article, quickly, I'll admit, and got no impression that it was any kind of hit job on Allen, McDermott or anyone else.  It's just some history that Dunne wrote based on some conversations he had with guys who were involved with managing the team at what is now an interesting point in the history of the Bills.  

 

I agreed with the post that recited the Michael Jordan draft history.  If you're a team that passed on Jordan and you sucked for the next ten years, well, yeah, then it's fair to sit around and talk about what a monumental screwup that was.   But if you skipped Jordan and built a winner with other players, it's fun to talk about the what-ifs.   We all can argue about whether the Bills have built a winner - some might say it's too early and some others might say it's only a matter of time, but the Bills are much closer to having built a winner than maybe any of us imagined.  And I think that is exactly the perspective that the article takes.  It's not suggesting the Bills are doomed because they passed on Mahomes; to the contrary, to the extent it talks about the present, it acknowledges that it looks like the Bills have something special happening. 

 

Mahomes looks like an extraordinary talent, once in a generation or once in a lifetime, maybe the absolute GOAT, and from that perspective, anyone who didn't take him blew it.   But dozens of fan bases are in that situation with Mahomes or Jordan or Brady or name a few others.  I really don't think that's the point.  The only question is "how is your team doing," and in the case of the Bills, the answer is "just fine, thank you."  

 

It may be a Bills thing, borne of decades of failure, including the failure of Kelly's teams to take the final step, and even the failure of the Bills to make it to Super Bowl I.   Even in the Bills' greatest eras, they didn't quite make it.  Then, on top of all that history, we had the drought and the scorn of pretty much all NFL fans outside of Bills fans.  Nobody treated the Bills like they were relevant, and it continues to be somewhat true with the Bills at 7-3.  I think some Bills fans may have come to believe all that crap from around the country and from the press, and it shows up in threads like this.  

 

If the Bills are a top team for the next ten years, which I think they will be if McBeane stay, and if Allen is a top 5 QB for the next ten years, which I think he will be, and if the Chiefs and Mahomes are there, too, which also is a good bet, no one is going to be sitting around bemoaning the fact that the Bills didn't take Mahomes.  No one.  Do you think there are any Colts fans who, when they reminisce, are saying "Heck, the Colts should have passed on Manning and taken Charles Woodson instead, then taken Brady a couple of years later"?   I mean, that's ridiculous.  

 

This is just an article about history, and interesting little period of history.  It's not an article that is anything more than incidentally critical about anyone, including McDermott and Allen.  

 

It's a complete hit job on Allen.

 

The article literally asks, "Is Josh Allen good?" - That is an insulting question to ask and is a direct shot at Allen.

 

No, of course he isn't "good". Josh Allen is special, spectacular, generational, incredible, dominant, transcendent, a unicorn, and is on a trajectory that could make him the Greatest Of All Time.

 

Article: "Is Josh Allen good?"

 

Bills fans: "This isn't a hit piece on Allen!"

 

SMH

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So i was going to just leave a shrugging josh in this topic and move on but for some reason my fingers' gravitated back.

I went back and read it again. Much of this article is opinionated followed by fact. KC and buffalo were in 2 different situations. KC had a near complete team that needed a QB and we had an incomplete team that needed to dump talent to get ours.

 

No matter what, we were not picking up a QB early that year cause of the situation we were in.

 

The questionable questions is would Josh be doing This good or better In KC and would Mahomes be doing this good here?

 

We have seen Mahomes Ceiling but have we seen Allens' ?

 

None of this matters to me right now because I like where we are at and where we are going. Everyone says the team to beat KC this year is Buffalo.

 

To much opinionated stuff in this article followed by some facts.  I feel that we have beat the heck out of this topic on these boards well before this article. 

 

shrug

[blacklabel]

That article also raises the point so many seem to forget, would Mahomes be the Mahomes we see now if he landed here? Doubtful. He landed in a perfect storm with KC and I'm skeptical that he'd do what he's done anywhere else. 

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

That article also raises the point so many seem to forget, would Mahomes be the Mahomes we see now if he landed here? Doubtful. He landed in a perfect storm with KC and I'm skeptical that he'd do what he's done anywhere else. 

been said many times

[QLBillsFan]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

 

Brian Daboll absolutely sucks as a Coach...Brian Daboll is a product of Josh Allen. 

 

Allen is a significantly better QB than Darnold and Mayfield in ANY situation/team. There's no comparison at all. It's not even close.

Daboll sucks as a coach is based on what ? His track record is pretty impressive. JA has clearly progressed under his leadership.

[BADOLBILZ]

36 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Daboll sucks as a coach is based on what ? His track record is pretty impressive. JA has clearly progressed under his leadership.

 

 

I am not agreeing with the OP about Daboll being a terrible coach.............but Daboll was an OC 3 different times in the NFL prior to coming to Buffalo and his "track record" was inarguably abysmal at those stops.

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I am not agreeing with the OP about Daboll being a terrible coach.............but Daboll was an OC 3 different times in the NFL prior to coming to Buffalo and his "track record" was inarguably abysmal at those stops.

Sometimes you do the best with what you have. His coaching journey has taken him through NE and some time with Saban. He has in fact improved JA. 
 

 By the way I’m of the camp that JA is good now and destined to be great. He’s got top 3 arm, top 3 elusiveness, top 3 leadership. Just disagree on Daboll sucking as coach. 

[mannc]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:58 AM, Zerovoltz said:

I didn't read through every single post here, but I read alot of them.....I have 2 points.

 

1.  first let me address the crowd that points out "Mahomes wouldn't be as good here as he is in KC because of weapons"  Truly, Mahomes did end up in the optimal spot....KC was a great match for what he does and had skill players in place.  I am sure that only in KC does the kid have 50/5000 season, but you are not giving enough credit to Mahomes for the things he does as a QB that lifts the entire roster around him.  IF he had landed in Bufalo or anywhere else, he'd have been special and would have made the skill players on any roster look better than they are.  Also....as a KC fan...It's irritating to keep seeing that the national perception is that we have "a good line".  WE DO NOT have a good line.  We have 2 good tackles and a very bad G-C-G combo.  If Joe Flacco was KC's QB, he'd get killed.  also, as great as you might think our RB are (there are good) .....KC SUCKS at getting any kind of push when you need a yard....they get pushed back.  it's awful.  I digress....Mahomes would even make the Jets a respectable team.

 

2.  This whole thing has been talked out enough....For a team that gets called out for missing on Mahomes, the Bills landed squarely on their feet with Allen.  He's a top end NFL QB talent at this point and he's fun as hell to watch.  I know I enjoy it whenever I get a chance to watch Bills games.  He is a guy you can build around and win a super bowl with.  You'll be competing with Mahomes to do it....but Allen is one of the few young horses in this leauge who potentially can do that.  This whole thing would another awful chapter in the long history of Bills missteps if you didn't land Allen....your franchise is in good shape!  The Pegulas, from the outside looking in....seem like good owners that have made sound choices....they just kind of oddly handled that 2017 offseason wich made for a situation where taking a QB at 10 wasn't really something McD was going to be comfortable doing at his sole discretion.  It's fine.  Things turned out pretty good considering.   

Very good perspective here.  Sure, the Bills goofed by not drafting Mahomes (seems silly to deny that), but they redeemed themselves pretty well when they took Allen the next year.  And of course franchises like the Bears (trading up from 3 to 2 to draft Trubisky) and the Jags (drafting Fournette at 4 overall when they have needed a QB literally forever) opened themselves up to much greater criticism for passing on Mahomes...