The Bills and Patrick Mahomes

[gotme365]

According to this article Pegula really wanted Mahomes. I love Josh but reading this made me really sad.

 

https://golongtd.substack.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen

[DrDawkinstein]

Was never going to happen since McD didn't have his GM in place yet, AND had to settle on a 3rd choice for OC in Dennison who he knew he was going to replace the next year.

 

Didnt matter who was in that draft, we weren't taking a QB in 2017.

 

This thread is like a cow because the point is mooed.

[HeHateMe]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Was never going to happen since McD didn't have his GM in place yet, AND had to settle on a 3rd choice for OC in Dennison who he knew he was going to replace the next year.

 

Didnt matter who was in that draft, we weren't taking a QB in 2017.

 

This thread is like a cow because the point is mooed.

If you read it, that's not correct... Terry was close to just overruling and taking Mahomes at 10.  Good article btw.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, HeHateMe said:

If you read it, that's not correct... Terry was close to just overruling and taking Mahomes at 10.  Good article btw.

 

And thank god Terry made the right choice of staying out of the way and letting the football people do their jobs. Maybe he should take more of that stance on the hockey side.

 

I guess I should have said "Was never going to happen as long as it was up to McD", and it was. Luckily.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And thank god Terry made the right choice of staying out of the way and letting the football people do their jobs. Maybe he should take more of that stance on the hockey side.

 

I guess I should have said "Was never going to happen as long as it was up to McD", and it was. Luckily.

 

Is this sarcasm?  Mahomes is very possibly on his way to GOAT status.  Nothing lucky about missing out on him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, gotme365 said:

According to this article Pegula really wanted Mahomes. I love Josh but reading this made me really sad.

 

https://golongtd.substack.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen

 

Ugh, I loved Ty Dunne while he was working for TBN.  I don't know what path his career took but he's started this new football site "Golongtd" and I wish him well.

 

If this article is an example of his content, though, I'm not feeling it.    It reads as very contrived.

 

"Everyone associated with the Bills — from Sean McDermott to all faithful servants pounding Cajun-Honey Butter BBQ wings at Bar Bill — is overwhelmed with hope because the Bills, Your Bills, are Super Bowl contenders, *****, and no sober Western New Yorker has been able to say that for 20-plus years. "

 

Does anyone really feel the Bills are legit Superbowl Contenders this year?  Do we think that's What McDermott believes?  Dunne doesn't make a case for that.  He just asserts it.

I think we all believe the Bills "have a shot IF".  IF the defense gets its act together and toughens up.  IF we get a couple key players back and that makes a difference.  IF the AWOL run game shows up along with the OL getting healthier.   IF we do our job and finish the season strong, instead of letting other teams hang around in the game or come back on us, and sneak past us at the end.    I think you see it in the thread titles here.

 

Beane has said stuff like "we're not one player away" and declined to make moves at the trade deadline, where other teams like Baltimore, KC etc did.

 

Lastly the bit about the Bills being close to drafting Mahomes because Pegula liked him.  "the Bills’ brass then decided to trade down from 10th overall to 27th to pick up a future first-rounder with hopes Mahomes would slide."  Really?  Who did the Bills think KC was trading up for then?  C'mon Man, teams only make moves like that for a QB and from what I recall, KC's interest in Mahomes was well known before the draft.  Reid and McDermott are close.

 

Dunne seems to be banking on the recollections of a guys who got the boot after that draft - Monos.  Maybe he's remembering correctly.  Or maybe he's making a retrospective case that the scouting staff he was part of didn't make a huge whiff, they loved Mahomes, they wanted Mahomes, they Did Their Job and the owner did his, McDermott just whiffed?

 

So his conclusion is that Josh Allen is under more pressure than any player in professional football because everyone expects the Bills to be Superbowl contenders and Pegula wanted them to draft Mahomes just seems quite contrived to me. 

I think he tried to lead with that to give the article Current Relevance instead of being Yet Another 2018 Draft Rehash, but it didn't work.

 

If anyone would be under pressure, it seems to me that would be McDermott - and he just got a big extension.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Is this sarcasm?  Mahomes is very possibly on his way to GOAT status.  Nothing lucky about missing out on him.

 

The comment isnt about the player. It's about the owner, who is brand new to the league and sport, not meddling and staying out of the way.

[Chuck Wagon]

My god, I could not imagine being in Pegula's shoes, knowing you desperately wanted Mahomes but allowed your football people to do their job and now you are forced to watch him ascend to potentially the GOAT status from a distance on a pick you traded away.

[HeHateMe]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And thank god Terry made the right choice of staying out of the way and letting the football people do their jobs. Maybe he should take more of that stance on the hockey side.

 

I guess I should have said "Was never going to happen as long as it was up to McD", and it was. Luckily.

Usually I would say your right... but in this case the owner meddling would of netted perhaps the best QB of all time.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ugh, I loved Ty Dunne while he was working for TBN.  I don't know what path his career took but he's started this new football site "Golongtd" and I wish him well.

 

If this article is an example of his content, though, I'm not feeling it.    It reads as very contrived.

 

Same.

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

"Everyone associated with the Bills — from Sean McDermott to all faithful servants pounding Cajun-Honey Butter BBQ wings at Bar Bill — is overwhelmed with hope because the Bills, Your Bills, are Super Bowl contenders, *****, and no sober Western New Yorker has been able to say that for 20-plus years. "

 

Does anyone really feel the Bills are legit Superbowl Contenders this year?  Do we think that's What McDermott believes?  Dunne doesn't make a case for that.  He just asserts it.

 

Sure, we're as much contenders as any other Division leader. Contenders doesnt mean "Favorites".

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lastly the bit about the Bills being close to drafting Mahomes because Pegula liked him.  "the Bills’ brass then decided to trade down from 10th overall to 27th to pick up a future first-rounder with hopes Mahomes would slide."  Really?  Who did the Bills think KC was trading up for then?  C'mon Man, teams only make moves like that for a QB and from what I recall, KC's interest in Mahomes was well known before the draft.  Reid and McDermott are close.

 

Dunne seems to be banking on the recollections of a guys who got the boot after that draft - Monos.

 

So his conclusion is that Josh Allen is under more pressure than any player in professional football because everyone expects the Bills to be Superbowl contenders and Pegula wanted them to draft Mahomes just seems quite contrived to me.

 

 

 

Yeah, this is my feeling as well.

 

We traded down with KC hoping Mahomes would slide and not knowing who KC was picking? SERIOUS DOUBT.

 

I take these "draft day stories" with a grain of salt, especially when they come 3 years later. A lot of revisionist history.

[Chuck Wagon]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ugh, I loved Ty Dunne while he was working for TBN.  I don't know what path his career took but he's started this new football site "Golongtd" and I wish him well.

 

If this article is an example of his content, though, I'm not feeling it.    It reads as very contrived.

 

"Everyone associated with the Bills — from Sean McDermott to all faithful servants pounding Cajun-Honey Butter BBQ wings at Bar Bill — is overwhelmed with hope because the Bills, Your Bills, are Super Bowl contenders, *****, and no sober Western New Yorker has been able to say that for 20-plus years. "

 

Does anyone really feel the Bills are legit Superbowl Contenders this year?  Do we think that's What McDermott believes?  Dunne doesn't make a case for that.  He just asserts it.

I think we all believe the Bills "have a shot IF".  IF the defense gets its act together and toughens up.  IF we get a couple key players back and that makes a difference.  IF the AWOL run game shows up along with the OL getting healthier.   IF we do our job and finish the season strong, instead of letting other teams hang around in the game or come back on us, and sneak past us at the end.    I think you see it in the thread titles here.

 

Beane has said stuff like "we're not one player away" and declined to make moves at the trade deadline, where other teams like Baltimore, KC etc did.

 

Lastly the bit about the Bills being close to drafting Mahomes because Pegula liked him.  "the Bills’ brass then decided to trade down from 10th overall to 27th to pick up a future first-rounder with hopes Mahomes would slide."  Really?  Who did the Bills think KC was trading up for then?  C'mon Man, teams only make moves like that for a QB and from what I recall, KC's interest in Mahomes was well known before the draft.  Reid and McDermott are close.

 

Dunne seems to be banking on the recollections of a guys who got the boot after that draft - Monos.  Maybe he's remembering correctly.  Or maybe he's making a retrospective case that the scouting staff he was part of didn't make a huge whiff, they loved Mahomes, they wanted Mahomes, they Did Their Job and the owner did his, McDermott just whiffed?

 

So his conclusion is that Josh Allen is under more pressure than any player in professional football because everyone expects the Bills to be Superbowl contenders and Pegula wanted them to draft Mahomes just seems quite contrived to me.

 

 

 

 

In the salary cap era, there isn't a perfect team.  Every team has shortcomings that need covered up as best as teams can manage.  Just last year the Chiefs defense put them in big holes each of the final 3 games of the season.

 

I think this team is capable of beating any team in the league.  As ugly as the Chiefs game was, we were a missed FG at the end of the half and a close but not quite fumble at the end of the game away from stealing it.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, HeHateMe said:

Usually I would say your right... but in this case the owner meddling would of netted perhaps the best QB of all time.

 

Player success, especially QBs, does not happen in a vacuum.

 

Would Mahomes be as successful in Buffalo as he has been in KC? With the year to sit behind Smith, and learn from one of the greatest offensive minds in the game in Reid (vs Taylor and Dennison)? With the vastly different amounts of talent he has had around him in KC vs what Buffalo has had up until this season?

 

He probably would still be "good", but I find it hard to say he'd be on track to being "perhaps the best QB of all time".

 

We probably wouldnt be regretting the pick, but I can't say he'd be who he is today.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ugh, I loved Ty Dunne while he was working for TBN.  I don't know what path his career took but he's started this new football site "Golongtd" and I wish him well.

 

If this article is an example of his content, though, I'm not feeling it.    It reads as very contrived.

 

"Everyone associated with the Bills — from Sean McDermott to all faithful servants pounding Cajun-Honey Butter BBQ wings at Bar Bill — is overwhelmed with hope because the Bills, Your Bills, are Super Bowl contenders, *****, and no sober Western New Yorker has been able to say that for 20-plus years. "

 

Does anyone really feel the Bills are legit Superbowl Contenders this year?  Do we think that's What McDermott believes?  Dunne doesn't make a case for that.  He just asserts it.

I think we all believe the Bills "have a shot IF".  IF the defense gets its act together and toughens up.  IF we get a couple key players back and that makes a difference.  IF the AWOL run game shows up along with the OL getting healthier.   IF we do our job and finish the season strong, instead of letting other teams hang around in the game or come back on us, and sneak past us at the end.    I think you see it in the thread titles here.

 

Beane has said stuff like "we're not one player away" and declined to make moves at the trade deadline, where other teams like Baltimore, KC etc did.

 

Lastly the bit about the Bills being close to drafting Mahomes because Pegula liked him.  "the Bills’ brass then decided to trade down from 10th overall to 27th to pick up a future first-rounder with hopes Mahomes would slide."  Really?  Who did the Bills think KC was trading up for then?  C'mon Man, teams only make moves like that for a QB and from what I recall, KC's interest in Mahomes was well known before the draft.  Reid and McDermott are close.

 

Dunne seems to be banking on the recollections of a guys who got the boot after that draft - Monos.  Maybe he's remembering correctly.  Or maybe he's making a retrospective case that the scouting staff he was part of didn't make a huge whiff, they loved Mahomes, they wanted Mahomes, they Did Their Job and the owner did his, McDermott just whiffed?

 

So his conclusion is that Josh Allen is under more pressure than any player in professional football because everyone expects the Bills to be Superbowl contenders and Pegula wanted them to draft Mahomes just seems quite contrived to me. 

I think he tried to lead with that to give the article Current Relevance instead of being Yet Another 2018 Draft Rehash, but it didn't work.

 

If anyone would be under pressure, it seems to me that would be McDermott - and he just got a big extension.

 

 

 

I thought the Bills might be Superbowl contenders before the season. Not sure I do any longer. It is much more as you say "outside shot if A, B and C happens." 

 

Also while it is very possible the scouting staff wanted a QB in 2017 and that the QB was Mahomes (I think I recall Leroi saying Mahomes came on their radar late) I completely agree with you that when they traded out with the Chiefs they knew they were taking him or at the very least knew it was between Mahomes and Watson. If you are seriously thinking you might take one of those guys then you do not take the trade back.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

I thought the Bills might be Superbowl contenders before the season. Not sure I do any longer. It is much more as you say "outside shot if A, B and C happens." 

 

Also while it is very possible the scouting staff wanted a QB in 2017 and that the QB was Mahomes (I think I recall Leroi saying Mahomes came on their radar late) I completely agree with you that when they traded out with the Chiefs they knew they were taking him or at the very least knew it was between Mahomes and Watson. If you are seriously thinking you might take one of those guys then you do not take the trade back.

 

Our defense isn't there.  As Chris Simms said "Bills can't run or stop the run".  Bit of an overexaggeration, but it does seem true we only stop the run if we "sell out" the pass.

 

At the time, it was said that the QB Whaley really liked and would have taken at 10 was Watson. 

 

Either way, the lesson of the Bills under Nix was "if you really like a QB, don't bank on him sliding".  The "one that got away" to me is still Wilson.

[BillsMafi$]

Oh man I’m disgusted we were that close to Mahomes. A true ALPHA

[BITE ME]

Mahomes would not be Mahomes if he came to Buffalo and had the Bills receivers and offensive line his first few years.  He was put into an offense with a ton of weapons and had a line that could actually block.

 

Mahomes is better than Allen, but the difference is not as large as people believe.  Mahomes is an A+ talent. Allen is an A- talent.  Guaranteed Hall of Famer vs borderline Hall of Famer.

[BillsShredder83]

Its been said a million times and its absolutely true. If "your" player is available, you go to the podium and take him, not get cute and trade down hoping he'll drop. IF (and I dont believe it is) this were true, we obviously didn't have a very high grade on him, and certainly had no clue he had this kind of potential.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Player success, especially QBs, does not happen in a vacuum.

 

Would Mahomes be as successful in Buffalo as he has been in KC? With the year to sit behind Smith, and learn from one of the greatest offensive minds in the game in Reid (vs Taylor and Dennison)? With the vastly different amounts of talent he has had around him in KC vs what Buffalo has had up until this season?

 

He probably would still be "good", but I find it hard to say he'd be on track to being "perhaps the best QB of all time".

 

We probably wouldnt be regretting the pick, but I can't say he'd be who he is today.

 

I catch flack for saying this, as you probably will too, but IMO it's true. 

 

Reid had been coach of the Chiefs for 4 seasons at the point they drafted Mahomes.  They were a playoff contender and a winning team for 3 of those 4 years, and won the division that season.  The year they drafted Mahomes, they upgraded talent at WR and RB and went from the #13 to the #6 offense, with ***** Alex Smith having a career season  - and WonderBoy on the bench watching and learning.

Continuity at coaching and the quality of the other 10 guys matter too.  And I think that's a message that McDermott and Daboll constantly hammer home to Allen.  "Do your 1/11.  It Takes  All of Us."

 

8 minutes ago, FUTURIST said:

Mahomes would not be Mahomes if he came to Buffalo and had the Bills receivers and offensive line his first few years.  He was put into an offense with a ton of weapons and had a line that could actually block.

 

Mahomes is better than Allen, but the difference is not as large as people believe.  Mahomes is an A+ talent. Allen is an A- talent.  Guaranteed Hall of Famer vs borderline Hall of Famer.

 

A little correction there.  As Daboll said in an interview with Tasker askng tacky questions, "I don't want to put a ceiling on him". 

 

Allen has taken strides, certainly beyond what many pundits were expecting.  Are future strides possible?  "I don't want to put a ceiling on him"

[ghostwriter]

8 minutes ago, FUTURIST said:

Mahomes would not be Mahomes if he came to Buffalo and had the Bills receivers and offensive line his first few years.  He was put into an offense with a ton of weapons and had a line that could actually block.

 

Mahomes is better than Allen, but the difference is not as large as people believe.  Mahomes is an A+ talent. Allen is an A- talent.  Guaranteed Hall of Famer vs borderline Hall of Famer.

While most of what you said is true.. especially the first paragraph.. I’d argue though that Allen’s ceiling is higher than Mahomes’.. as crazy as that sounds.. I still expect a Championship out of Allen.. He makes throws that not even Rodgers or Mahomes can make.. that same strength though is also a weakness in the sense that he makes ill advised throws because he has too much faith in his arm.. He may wow you one moment and then the next moment you wonder wtf he’s doing.. Allen is very Brett Favre like.. Needs to clean up the turnovers while driving the ball down field.. even if it means we see slightly less production out of his TD total.. with that said we need to see more production out of our running game and defense for that blueprint to work...

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Dunne seems to be banking on the recollections of a guys who got the boot after that draft - Monos.  Maybe he's remembering correctly.  Or maybe he's making a retrospective case that the scouting staff he was part of didn't make a huge whiff, they loved Mahomes, they wanted Mahomes, they Did Their Job and the owner did his, McDermott just whiffed?

 

 

 

That's not what the article says.  It says Whaley and Monos wanted to trade down and get Mahomes at 27 or get a QB the following year.  That was their recommendation to the Pegulas. Terry was the one who wanted Mahomes so badly that he'd do it at 10.  So Monos is admitting that he and Whaley may have had it wrong and Terry alone understood what Mahomes would become.   

 

It's also very interesting to think that if the Pegulas had chosen Anthony Lynn, he would have taken Mahomes.