papazoid Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 beane #9 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-gm-general-manager-rankings-2020/oqp1pkjflwvs1n9p27f0a82ou#:~:text=NFL general manager rankings 2020. 1 1. John,returning%2C but his shrewd personnel ... More items
GunnerBill Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: Based on their play at the end of last season, I was hoping to see a big step up from both Tremaine Edmunds and Ed Oliver. For whatever reason it hasn't happened though they have been looking better recently. If either one becomes real stars, there would be no question that Beane is one of the top drafting GMs. Agreed.
JGMcD2 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Posted December 1, 2020 9 hours ago, MJS said: Nice work. This will be an interesting thing to look at going forward. Is this same type of thing possible for free agency classes (isolating the time played with current team only, not time with previous teams). That would provide a full GM picture if you can look at draft classes AND free agency classes. You could then combine the metrics to come up with a single GM score card somehow. Yes, it will take a little longer because I'll have to go by hand and separate their time with the team after signing, the draft table was laid out pretty nicely where I could just apply some formulas and throw it together pretty quick. But FA is doable for sure... I've gone through the AFC East from 2017-2019 already... the Bills have brought in the most AV at 220, New England is 180, New York is 152 and Miami is 82 over that span. But when broken down by $/AV to basically show the value for that AV the Bills are 3rd in the division behind NE and Miami. It's really not a large margin at all, but we've actually handed our the 3rd most money in the NFL behind NYJ and JAX since 2017... the good news is it looks like we've gotten some good value. I'll keep digging.
MJS Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said: Yes, it will take a little longer because I'll have to go by hand and separate their time with the team after signing, the draft table was laid out pretty nicely where I could just apply some formulas and throw it together pretty quick. But FA is doable for sure... I've gone through the AFC East from 2017-2019 already... the Bills have brought in the most AV at 220, New England is 180, New York is 152 and Miami is 82 over that span. But when broken down by $/AV to basically show the value for that AV the Bills are 3rd in the division behind NE and Miami. It's really not a large margin at all, but we've actually handed our the 3rd most money in the NFL behind NYJ and JAX since 2017... the good news is it looks like we've gotten some good value. I'll keep digging. The past few years have been kind of interesting. The team was kind of built through free agency to stay competitive. We never really tanked like other teams often do while rebuilding. We for sure shelled out a lot of money to free agents. I think going forward we will see more of a "building through the draft" mentality since we seem to have a good core of talent now. But I did suspect that the Bills got a lot of value out of their free agents. So that's good to see some numbers to support that.
SCBills Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 This last draft is starting to look a lot better with the potential of Gabriel Davis, development of AJ Epenesa, increased production from Moss and how good Tyler Bass has been. Then add in the late round find of Dane Jackson, who has been able to step in as solid CB depth. Lots of potential in this group, and nothing is certain yet, but signs are pointing upwards for a Draft that didn't even have a 1st Round Pick. 3
BuffaloBill Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 7:59 PM, OZBILLS said: Just be like KC. Draft the once in a generation QB and then pick up troubled first rounders for pennies on the dollar through being awesome Just like the cheats* when Lady* played there.
SCBills Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 2:31 PM, PonyBoy said: Being able to draft Clyde Helaire that late in the 1st is an example. Not fair for Super Bowl champs to get that much talent that late. A guy like Travis Etienne could be available this year when we draft... Do you pull the trigger on a potentially elite talent that we may not necessarily need? Etienne/Moss would be a filthy backfield....
HOUSE Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) Drafting a Ford while passing on a Metcalf is not good Edited December 1, 2020 by HOUSE 1
eball Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 7:09 PM, Simon said: Heck, that's nothing. Can you imagine being the sumbitch that traded away Brett Favre?! Now that's an Oops. Glanville, right?
Albany,n.y. Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 I've considered the Newsome Ravens to be the best drafting team in the league, especially considering they are usually drafting in the 2nd half of each round. He even scored on STs, drafting a P now in his 15th year with the team in the 6th round & getting the most successful PK in the NFL as an undrafted FA in 2012. I was envious of the Ravens for having Newsome all those years when we were drafting bums way ahead of Baltimore. 1
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) On 11/23/2020 at 7:05 PM, Simon said: Favre was acquired in a trade On 11/23/2020 at 7:04 PM, Victory Formation said: The Packers have always been ridiculously good at drafting QBs over the years.. Starr, Favre and Rodgers.. Steelers always seem to do well too.. Ravens obviously with Ozzie Newsome who was fantastic.. Bart Starr was drafted in the 17th round! Don't think Green Bay is exactly an example of great drafting of QB's Granted the 17th round back then was only the 200th pick. LOL ONE overall pick lower than ol Tommy boy!! Edited December 1, 2020 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch
BillsVet Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: I've considered the Newsome Ravens to be the best drafting team in the league, especially considering they are usually drafting in the 2nd half of each round. He even scored on STs, drafting a P now in his 15th year with the team in the 6th round & getting the most successful PK in the NFL as an undrafted FA in 2012. I was envious of the Ravens for having Newsome all those years when we were drafting bums way ahead of Baltimore. His then lieutenant and Ravens current GM Eric DeCosta ain't bad himself. Turned down opportunities (including Buffalo) to interview for GM jobs. Beane gets the credit for Josh, but there are some positions on this team they've struggled. The DL has only Oliver and Epenesa (EDIT:also H. Phillips) in the rotation who aren't UFAs/inherited. The top 3 WR's are UFA/trade acquisitions. The OL has one drafted guy starting right now, and the other (who they traded up into the 2nd for) has been IR'd after a mediocre season. They're thin at LB and their 1st round pick there (whom they traded up for) is meh after 2.5 seasons. The safeties are UFAs, although McD hit with Tre (after trading out of the spot Mahomes was taken). The other CB spot has been average at best since McD arrived and they've gone through UDFAs and UFAs without much result. In sum, the WR, DE, and CB positions have depended heavily on players who weren't drafted and developed here. That's the downside of the McD mind on roster development combined with an Admin GM. Hopefully some of the personnel background guys have the voice in the room on draft day. Edited December 1, 2020 by BillsVet
Albany,n.y. Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, BillsVet said: His then lieutenant and Ravens current GM Eric DeCosta ain't bad himself. Turned down opportunities (including Buffalo) to interview for GM jobs. Beane gets the credit for Josh, but there are some positions on this team they've struggled. The DL has only Oliver and Epenesa (EDIT:also H. Phillips) in the rotation who aren't UFAs/inherited. The top 3 WR's are UFA/trade acquisitions. The OL has one drafted guy starting right now, and the other (who they traded up into the 2nd for) has been IR'd after a mediocre season. They're thin at LB and their 1st round pick there (whom they traded up for) is meh after 2.5 seasons. The safeties are UFAs, although McD hit with Tre (after trading out of the spot Mahomes was taken). The other CB spot has been average at best since McD arrived and they've gone through UDFAs and UFAs without much result. In sum, the WR, DE, and CB positions have depended heavily on players who weren't drafted and developed here. That's the downside of the McD mind on roster development combined with an Admin GM. Hopefully some of the personnel background guys have the voice in the room on draft day. When you have a young, developing franchise QB, I'd rather provide him with veteran established WRs than take a shot in the draft. Last season we brought in 2 veteran WRs to replace a horrible group. Considering we were drafting in the 20s, it made more sense to get a proven #1 WR than to take a shot in the draft this year. Minnesota got a good deal & may have drafted a #1 in our spot, but Josh needed to be surrounded by veterans, not unproven players. On top of that we still drafted 2 later round WRs and Davis is looking pretty good for a 4th rounder. I can't find any fault in how Beane has constructed the WRs group from what was chicken poop in 2018. Before Beane got here we drafted White and signed one of the best pair of S in the league as FAs, no problem that we were unable to draft another pro bowler to pair with White. the secondary is pretty good. The draft and free agency should be used as compliments of each other & overall Beane & McDermott have overhauled this team from a playoff non contender to a perennial contender. Once again, with a young QB, I'd rather bring in veteran offensive linemen than taking a shot in the draft. We had far too many holes on the O-line to address with draft picks. They get huge credit for managing to maneuver in the 2018 draft through both luck & skill to not only scout the right QB, who they had as their top QB in the draft, but get him at a reasonable price, not giving up their 2nd first rounder of 2018 or their 2019 1st rounder. The Jets paid a lot more to move up from 6 to 3 for Darnold and I'm sure there is not a single GM in the NFL who would trade Josh for Sam. As for the front 7 on D, you can't fill them all, but we still have to see what the young guys will do. Don't be surprised if the vets we brought in shine in the playoffs. Edmunds has been hurt for half this season & is playing healthier & better in this 2nd half of the season. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 6 hours ago, SCBills said: A guy like Travis Etienne could be available this year when we draft... Do you pull the trigger on a potentially elite talent that we may not necessarily need? Etienne/Moss would be a filthy backfield.... They need a game breaking RB but spending more early picks on them is shortsighted. Early picks are for foundation pieces...........that's where you take risks on long term difference makers you wouldn't have many chances at in UFA. You can still find RB's that can offer playmaking ability all over the draft or in UDFA.........and of course in UFA because nobody wants to pay them.............you just have to choose well. Drafting a RB early after taking two in the third round the prior two drafts is throwing good money after bad. 3
mbs Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Practically no injuries except to Phillips last year which affects our perception this year. Not so this year, plus we face a really tough schedule. So Bean goes from master of witchcraft to pretty good at card tricks. Oliver is an undersized DT who has been asked to shade center with a bum knee. I think he's performed admirably considering. I fully expect by game four of next year he will be considered the defense's Josh Allen. I also think Edmunds looked bad because not just because of injury but because of what the heck ever was wrong with the defense generally and here you can add Taron Johnson as a 4th rounder who flashed early in his career and seems to have recovered a bit lately. Phillips looked promising pre-injury and might just need a few dozen more leg days to get back to form. Late last week was the first time since Kromer that even my untrained eyes caught the line pulling heavies and pointing them downfield. It was awesome and it made our pair of third rounder RBs look like, well, pretty good lower second rounders. Yay. I'm not super optimistic about Ford, but if he becomes a starter at guard, I'm not sure it's worth complaining about (okay, DK would have been awesome.) At least some of the above excuses are totally legitimate explanations.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 6 hours ago, SCBills said: This last draft is starting to look a lot better with the potential of Gabriel Davis, development of AJ Epenesa, increased production from Moss and how good Tyler Bass has been. Then add in the late round find of Dane Jackson, who has been able to step in as solid CB depth. Lots of potential in this group, and nothing is certain yet, but signs are pointing upwards for a Draft that didn't even have a 1st Round Pick. At this point last year Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox, Bam Johnson and Tommy Sweeney were getting the same level of hype or more than this class. There have been moments this season.........and they still could pan out later........ but that is a startling amount of "meh" or outright regression from a draft class in year 2 right there. And that happens more than you'd think..........rookies are like new toys.........teams often can't wait to march them out there but if they disappoint at all they can depreciate quickly in the eyes of management. 1
Penfield45 Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Dont think we are up there yet Beane has a lot of work to do with his drafting ability . He’s had way more misses than hits but he hit on the QB
NoSaint Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: At this point last year Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox, Bam Johnson and Tommy Sweeney were getting the same level of hype or more than this class. There have been moments this season.........and they still could pan out later........ but that is a startling amount of "meh" or outright regression from a draft class in year 2 right there. And that happens more than you'd think..........rookies are like new toys.........teams often can't wait to march them out there but if they disappoint at all they can depreciate quickly in the eyes of management. and it’s always the case that fans project EVERY rookie to take 3 big steps forward in the offseason and reality is few make that leap. Edited December 2, 2020 by NoSaint 1
SCBills Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: At this point last year Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox, Bam Johnson and Tommy Sweeney were getting the same level of hype or more than this class. There have been moments this season.........and they still could pan out later........ but that is a startling amount of "meh" or outright regression from a draft class in year 2 right there. And that happens more than you'd think..........rookies are like new toys.........teams often can't wait to march them out there but if they disappoint at all they can depreciate quickly in the eyes of management. I think Oliver still has foundation potential. Johnson seems like a decent rotational guy/ST, which is strong for where we drafted him. Ford-Singletary-Knox is where the rubber meets the road on that draft. Singletary seems like JAG right now, and who can know what we have in Ford/Knox, given how much time they’ve missed this year. Ford is playing his correct position now, but has been banged up most of the year and is obviously now on IR. Knox will make ultra-athletic catches like the TD on Sunday, but then bumble a critical 20 yard strike on 3rd down. 1
MJS Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, Penfield45 said: Dont think we are up there yet Beane has a lot of work to do with his drafting ability . He’s had way more misses than hits but he hit on the QB That's not true. 49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: At this point last year Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox, Bam Johnson and Tommy Sweeney were getting the same level of hype or more than this class. There have been moments this season.........and they still could pan out later........ but that is a startling amount of "meh" or outright regression from a draft class in year 2 right there. And that happens more than you'd think..........rookies are like new toys.........teams often can't wait to march them out there but if they disappoint at all they can depreciate quickly in the eyes of management. I know some fans are willing to label guys busts after less than two seasons, but I'm not. You have to give these guys time to develop.
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