Top Drafting Teams in the NFL

[billybrew1]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Ideally, it's still too early to judge Beane. I think he was the 2017 mastermind and that draft looks pretty good.

The other two are hazy but anytime you get a Josh Allen alone, that's a winning draft.

Im hoping the rest of the 2018 draft and the 2019 draft kicks in before this season ends. 

 

Come on, Bills, come together.

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, H2o said:

Ozzie Newsome was excellent with the draft for years in Baltimore. Defensive talent, offensive talent, he built a two time SB Champion and a perennial contender. 

Pittsburgh,  New England,  49ers,  Seattle, Packers are some of the teams that draft well even if they are not in the top 10 position of the draft.

[timekills17]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

Heck, that's nothing.

Can you imagine being the sumbitch that traded away Brett Favre?! 

Now that's an Oops. 

 

And Steve Young.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, timekills17 said:

 

And Steve Young.

And it is likely that if  both had remained  with their original teams may not have had the same success.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Ozzie Newsome seems to be the best evaluator of college talent. I dont recall him wasting picks moving up to draft guys either. 

Agree with Pittsburgh and Saints.  

 

[BananaB]

10 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Steelers when it comes to defense and wideouts.  

I think some teams draft different positions better. I agree totally with what you said about the Steelers. I find the Bills draft CBs really well. 

[Buddo]

That's an interesting point Banana.

 

Ravens and Belicheck seem to be unable to draft decent WRs. They get the odd one now and then, but it's more by luck than judgement. They miss on a whole lot more of them than they hit on.

 

Bills major blind spot currently is TE. We either don't draft them, or they don't seem to be much good - even if there is occasional promise, before an apparently inevitable downfall.

 

In recent times, the 49ers look like a good drafting team. As do Indy. Alongside other teams already mentioned, in the Steelers, Ravens (WRs notwithstanding), Saints.

 

Oddly enough, I think the Cowgirls are better than people give them credit for, irrespective of how many Joneses they have doing it. Their problems stem more from coaching than a lack of talent, although it could be argued that they simply pick talent without bothering to worry about schematic fits.

 

Where does Beane sit in all of this? Still too early to say, imho. There are guys who have contributed, yet can't be deemed to be 'stars' yet, their body of work simply isn't there.

 

He does get tremendous kudos for drafting Allen. Atm, there isn't another QB from that class I would rather have. Jackson has had his moments, but I'd rather have Allen, as it should be obvious, that injuries aside, he is on a development path that gives him the potential for a very long lived career. I'm not convinced that Jackson will last unless he develops better pocket skills.

[JMF2006]

14 hours ago, H2o said:

Ozzie Newsome was excellent with the draft for years in Baltimore. Defensive talent, offensive talent, he built a two time SB Champion and a perennial contender. 

 

That was my first thought too

 

Ravens were #1 who is it now?

[GunnerBill]

Mickey Loomis (Saints), Kevin Colbert (Steelers), Rick Spielman (Vikings), Brett Veach (Chiefs), John Lynch (49ers), Jon Robinson (Titans), Howie Roseman (Eagles), Chris Ballard (Colts). 

 

After that there is Belichick (who has drafted badly the last 4 years but had a 10 year stretch before that where he was excellent), John Schneider (Seahawks) who misses on his first round choice pretty much every year but has a stellar record rounds 2 through 7 and Jerry Jones (albeit Will McClay is the one who deserves the credit) has drafted really well the last 10 years or so. Eric DeCosta played a key role in the front office with Ozzie Newsome but a bit early to judge him as a drafter in his own right. 

44 minutes ago, Buddo said:

Where does Beane sit in all of this? Still too early to say, imho. There are guys who have contributed, yet can't be deemed to be 'stars' yet, their body of work simply isn't there.

 

He does get tremendous kudos for drafting Allen. Atm, there isn't another QB from that class I would rather have. 

 

Agree totally with this. At the moment Beane is above average because, and only because, of Josh Allen. He has been average beyond that. He has drafted guys who can play. He hasn't drafted any other stars. GMs ultimately get judged by pro bowlers and all pros as much as wins and losses. 

[mannc]

7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Honestly I think if every GM was given 25 years they would probably all be pretty close to the same with hits and misses when it was all said and done. Some do very well in the beginning and get more time and others don't.

Interesting point, and probably close to correct, although there seem to be teams with much higher hit rates at certain positions, like Pittsburgh with WRs.  What sinks bad GMs is failing to land a franchise QB and misusing high draft picks on non-premium positions (those two flaws are often closely related). For example, the Giants and Jags, teams that are still looking for a franchise QB, recently used top 4 overall picks in RBs.  Washington and the Jets have drafted a lot of good defensive players over the past five years, but it’s gotten them nowhere.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mannc

[colin]

baltimore

tenn

saints

steelers

kc

browns (perhaps a fluke, but i remember a super bowl where both teams had a total of like 7 or 8 former browns)

gb

seattle

seahawks

 

[BarleyNY]

So much depends on coaches and GMs being on the same page.  A stable, well run organization helps enormously.  The difference between organizations that:

- know what they need in players

- can take the time to develop young players properly

- allow the hard work of the scouting department to dictate player acquisition and

- can play a long game with the draft, trades and contracts

versus those that:

- constantly have turnover because new players have to be brought in every few seasons to fit a new system

- rush rookies into important starting roles

- allow the whims of owners and coaches to dictate player acquisitions and

- are pressed into draft reaches, bad trades and bad contracts because jobs are on the line

cannot be overstated.

 

I think some teams draft a lot better than others, but I also think that there is a ceiling for it.  Beyond that it’s luck.  The big differences we see are between well run and poorly run organizations.

[mjt328]

My belief is that a draft should yield at least 3 starting-caliber players.

 

It's a little hard to judge Brandon Beane's drafts at this point, because many of the top guys he's picked have been inconsistent.  

 

-  Tremaine Edmunds was a Pro-Bowler last year, but has been hurt and struggled badly this season.

-  Harrison Phillips looked promising as a rookie, then tore his ACL and doesn't appear to have fully recovered.

-  Ed Oliver has shown brief flashes, but has been mostly underwhelming at this point.

-  Cody Ford started looking better when we pushed him inside, but then he got hurt too.

-  AJ Epenesa has been at the back-end of the DE rotation his entire rookie season.

-  Zack Moss has had moments, but our running game has struggled all season.

 

Until a good chunk of these guys become impact players for us, it's hard to say Beane is doing anything better than average.

 

[timekills17]

I know there are discussions/concerns about Beane's drafts, but I look at it like this:

How many of the starting players on the Bills from 2008-2017 would be starting on the Bills now?

How many would even be a backup?

 

We can certainly be concerned that some of the picks aren't All-Pro calibre, and some (as mentioned by @mjt328 and others) are hard to judge due to injury/youth but I'd argue it gets harder to pick superstars when your players are already darn good. They won't always stand out, and you're not picking as high.

The Belichick position is an example. He was maligned in this thread for his penchant to trade down, but when your first round pick is #28-32 for 10+ years, you probably aren't getting HOF'ers. Might as well draft for backup and future potential, which means acquiring more picks to try out.

 

The worse your team is, the more important and likely that your draft picks will (and will have to) have immediate impact.

I'd argue the hallmark of a well built, sustainably good team is that the draft picks don't have to be immediate superstars.

[Bill from NYC]

11 hours ago, Paulus said:

 

Buffalo has usually had solid drafts. 

Oh yeah, one after another. The playoff drought was a mere coincidence.

3 hours ago, BananaB said:

I think some teams draft different positions better. I agree totally with what you said about the Steelers. I find the Bills draft CBs really well. 

So true and the good news is the staggering amount of wins we gained while doing so, right?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I just look at the top of the standings.  In the current NFL your cheap rookie contracts have to produce for you to win games.  So those teams would be the ones who drafted well recently.  

[Rc2catch]

9 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

 

 

Is he? Then why hasn't he drafted a single pro bowl player since Jamie Collins in 2013?

 

I mean possibly his best players are late rounders. JC Jackson was an UDFA right? 
It’s not just about pro bowlers but contributing role players. Karras and Thuney and Shaq Mason been starters. James white. There’s a lot of misses and a lot of guys who didn’t get second contracts from New England but went on to play for others. I’m not trying to give the guy a ton of praise his draft record is spotty but he’s got some of his best hits after the 3rd round. 

[TigerJ]

I think Beane is better at drafting and roster building than any Bills GM since Bill Polian.  He's not perfect, but I'm not going to complain.  I agree on Newsome at Baltimore  and whoever has been at Pittsburgh has done a nice job over the years.  Bill Belichick is an interesting case in New England.  He's missed a lot at the top of the draft, but he's been great at finding players who fit a niche in New England's system.  He's also benefited over the years from top players giving a contract discount to the Patriots in exchanged for a presumed chance at winning a championship.

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

My belief is that a draft should yield at least 3 starting-caliber players.

 

It's a little hard to judge Brandon Beane's drafts at this point, because many of the top guys he's picked have been inconsistent.  

 

-  Tremaine Edmunds was a Pro-Bowler last year, but has been hurt and struggled badly this season.

-  Harrison Phillips looked promising as a rookie, then tore his ACL and doesn't appear to have fully recovered.

-  Ed Oliver has shown brief flashes, but has been mostly underwhelming at this point.

-  Cody Ford started looking better when we pushed him inside, but then he got hurt too.

-  AJ Epenesa has been at the back-end of the DE rotation his entire rookie season.

-  Zack Moss has had moments, but our running game has struggled all season.

 

Until a good chunk of these guys become impact players for us, it's hard to say Beane is doing anything better than average.

 

Well the bar you set was 3 starting caliber players each draft... and most of these guys are starting on a playoff team. 
 

So are they not starting caliber? 
 

In the baseball scouting world we break things down a certain way. On the 20/80 scale. In order for a guy to get a specific grade and fall into a specific category they have to meet certain criteria. 
 

For example, John Means of the Orioles, when he broke out and was an All-Star and the ace of the Orioles, that doesn’t mean he was an actual ace. In reality the grade I had on him was roughly a 55, which means he’s a #4-5 starter on a playoff caliber team. 
 

But if we’re grading all of these picks, they’re starting on a playoff caliber team... so they can’t be below average, at least not all of them. It’s impossible. Because in theory they would go to average and below average teams and be one of the top players. 

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I mean possibly his best players are late rounders. JC Jackson was an UDFA right? 
It’s not just about pro bowlers but contributing role players. Karras and Thuney and Shaq Mason been starters. James white. There’s a lot of misses and a lot of guys who didn’t get second contracts from New England but went on to play for others. I’m not trying to give the guy a ton of praise his draft record is spotty but he’s got some of his best hits after the 3rd round. 

 

Shaq Mason should be a pro bowler. He is a top 5 NFL guard IMO. He got David Andrews as an UDFA too. Malcolm Butler - UDFA. If you wanna criticise the Pats drafting from 2017 on be my guest it hasn't just been bad it has been horrible. However before that they had a really solid run of good drafts even without hitting on their first rounders.

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Well the bar you set was 3 starting caliber players each draft... and most of these guys are starting on a playoff team. 
 

So are they not starting caliber? 
 

In the baseball scouting world we break things down a certain way. On the 20/80 scale. In order for a guy to get a specific grade and fall into a specific category they have to meet certain criteria. 
 

For example, John Means of the Orioles, when he broke out and was an All-Star and the ace of the Orioles, that doesn’t mean he was an actual ace. In reality the grade I had on him was roughly a 55, which means he’s a #4-5 starter on a playoff caliber team. 
 

But if we’re grading all of these picks, they’re starting on a playoff caliber team... so they can’t be below average, at least not all of them. It’s impossible. Because in theory they would go to average and below average teams and be one of the top players. 

 

So my criteria is 2-3 starters every draft and one elite type player every 3 or 3 drafts. 

 

I'd argue after three drafts with Buffalo Beane has hit that. He has 2-3 starters put of his drafts and in Allen one elite type. But he does need to get better at drafting guys who are more than just starters because aside from at QB he hasn't so far hit those