wvbillsfan Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 The front office tries to replace him every year. And he always comes out on top. He's been CB2 for some pretty dang good defenses and i'm perfectly fine with him as a starter.
dorquemada Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said: The front office tries to replace him every year. And he always comes out on top. He's been CB2 for some pretty dang good defenses and i'm perfectly fine with him as a starter. He's a smart player who shows up in big games. He's not the prototype physical corner but the Bills are a better team when he plays. Furthermore he has a great story and is a humble man. You just want to cheer for him
Don Otreply Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 Yes he is under rated and under appreciated, imo Dane is the second best on that side. Norman has experience and knowledge, but his availability has been piss poor, and negates the above attributes. Go Bills!!!
billsbackto81 Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, thurst44 said: And probably when you compare him to most of the CB2s in the league. We tend to have different eyes for our own players (some people skew positive, others negative), but Taron Johnson and Levi Wallace have been an important cog--as usual CB2 and CB3-on a pass defense that's been at or near the best two years in a row. I suspect they're both a bit better than you value them. You may have an argument when discussing Wallace and his value as an asset in this zone defense McDermott runs as you don't need to be a superstar to be effective. But Taron Johnson has been a heaping pile of hot garbage this season. He's been the victim of inexplicable big play after big play, getting roasted on a weekly basis.
colin Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 he's a reasonable JAG defender who can start at CB2 for our D. that's not a knock on him, average at one spot back there can get the job done. i think the poor record without him is more a function of how awful our depth is behind him. its crazy to me how much FA money and the picks (1st, 2nd, and a 3rd) we plowed into the DL to get like totally average play from it. between who we have and our scheme something is plainly wrong w our D this year. enough individual players make enough individual errors to break the 1/11th thing that you have to wonder about it. 2
blacklabel Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 I agree that he's a bit underrated. I've often been confused when I see people wanting Norman starting over him. And it certainly seems like they might have something with Dane Jackson. Next season they should also have EJ Gaines back and while he's not an All-Pro or anything, he seems to play pretty well in this scheme. They'll likely sign a FA corner and draft one as well but I think it'll be round four or later when they do.
sven233 Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 Levi Wallace is an average CB. And that's not a bad thing to have when you have Tre on the other side. But there are too many times him and Johnson just get picked on and picked apart. Honestly, even though it has been in limited snaps so far, until he proves otherwise, Dane Jackson has been our best 2nd CB this season. Will it stay that way with more playing time? I don't know. But to this point, he has been real good and I'd be rolling him out there as our #2 CB until he does something to lose the job. 1
Ramza86 Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 I dont think hes underrated. I think hes a solid player that did a couple of things for some people to be more down on him than they should have. Then only to realize his value when we had a 3rd and 4th stringer starting at CB this year.
thurst44 Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: You may have an argument when discussing Wallace and his value as an asset in this zone defense McDermott runs as you don't need to be a superstar to be effective. But Taron Johnson has been a heaping pile of hot garbage this season. He's been the victim of inexplicable big play after big play, getting roasted on a weekly basis. Fair enough on Taron--he's having his worst season for whatever reason (I've cursed his name during games this year more than AJ Klein, and Klein has at least played well the last few weeks). I'd argue his good plays outweighed his bad plays (at least well enough for a CB3) in 2018 & 2019. Maybe it's just that we're seeing too much of him--or people figured out how to exploit him.
Putin Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: He is a good technician and a great athlete but he seems to lack the physique required for the sport. That’s why nobody was willing to part with a draft pick for him , I’m not saying he sucks but I think we still need to upgrade our CB2 hopefully with more playing time Dane Jackson could be that guy
Simon Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 Judging from the responses in this thread I would take the opposite tack and suggest that Levi Wallace is wildly overrated. If it wasn't for Taron Johnson, Wallace would be the #1 pigeon on this defense and he has been for a couple years now. Athletically, he's probably slightly below average compared to his peers at the position, but the biggest problem to me is that his technique is absolutely atrocious. maybe it's because he's regularly beat at the snap and is always struggling to recover, maybe he doesn't process information and react instantly like you need to at that position, or maybe his physical limitations put him at such a disadvantage that he can't execute properly in coverage; whichever the case, he simply has no business starting as a corner on an NFL defense. 2
BADOLBILZ Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, Simon said: Judging from the responses in this thread I would take the opposite tack and suggest that Levi Wallace is wildly overrated. If it wasn't for Taron Johnson, Wallace would be the #1 pigeon on this defense and he has been for a couple years now. Athletically, he's probably slightly below average compared to his peers at the position, but the biggest problem to me is that his technique is absolutely atrocious. maybe it's because he's regularly beat at the snap and is always struggling to recover, maybe he doesn't process information and react instantly like you need to at that position, or maybe his physical limitations put him at such a disadvantage that he can't execute properly in coverage; whichever the case, he simply has no business starting as a corner on an NFL defense. I am a little more to this side than where @GunnerBill is. Yeah you gotta' be a good teammate and play your role in the Bills defense and he's been a really good story of perseverance. But this defense really props up it's CB's........on MOST teams Levi would be a 5 alarm fire as CB2, IMO. Given the rich history of UFA CB's plucked from McDermott defense's it will be interesting to see if Wallace attracts much attention this winter.
Back2Buff Posted November 23, 2020 Author Posted November 23, 2020 3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: You may have an argument when discussing Wallace and his value as an asset in this zone defense McDermott runs as you don't need to be a superstar to be effective. But Taron Johnson has been a heaping pile of hot garbage this season. He's been the victim of inexplicable big play after big play, getting roasted on a weekly basis. I want to try Norman as slot corner. I think he could be a lot better than Taron. Norman's speed will be less of an issue in the slot and he can be physical there. When they first signed him, I thought he would be kicking inside because of the non-existent speed. He hasn't been healthy when Levi was also healthy, so we haven't known what the plan is.
QLBillsFan Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 I think he’s decent. Also by all accounts a really good guy. So important to have the depth of he, Jackson, and Norman healthy. He is outside cover only do to frail body type. Long and best for outside. Jackson might be nickel option as TJ he regressed a bit.
Putin Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 If I’m not mistaken his best performance was his rookie year since then he hasn’t gotten any better if anything I would say it’s been down hill
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: I am a little more to this side than where @GunnerBill is. Yeah you gotta' be a good teammate and play your role in the Bills defense and he's been a really good story of perseverance. But this defense really props up it's CB's........on MOST teams Levi would be a 5 alarm fire as CB2, IMO. Given the rich history of UFA CB's plucked from McDermott defense's it will be interesting to see if Wallace attracts much attention this winter. Oh I don't disagree with that at all. Levi in a Jim Schwartz defense wouldn't last 5 minutes.
JohnNord Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 I wanted an upgrade from Levi this year but he holds his own most of the time, which is more then you can say about Daryl Worley
ColoradoBills Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 Levi is a RFA after this year. He may not end up as a starter as CB2 but he has a place on the roster. He needs to be re-signed IMO.
Solomon Grundy Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Agree correlation is not causation, but Levi is a guy who knows and understand this system. He is also mentally extremely strong. Sometimes this system requires Levi to allow catches against him in order to dictate to the offense. To be able as a corner to see the ball being thrown in your direction and to have the discipline to be able to say to yourself repeatedly "I can't sell out for this, I have to let him catch it and stay in my position and tackle." That takes real mental strength. The games Norman started he really struggled with that and was wanting to make plays on the football in situations where it allowed for big YAC. This defense really is a 1/11th defense. And sometimes Levi's 1/11th is not the sort of role that will ever make you look great or get your name up in lights and yet he just keeps doing it. I'd love to think we can upgrade at that 2nd corner spot opposite Tre but until we do we look so much better when it is played by a guy like Levi who knows his limitations and understands his role in the scheme. He sacrifices himself for the defense more than I think people realise. That's my only problem with Levi, the tackling.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Simon said: Judging from the responses in this thread I would take the opposite tack and suggest that Levi Wallace is wildly overrated. If it wasn't for Taron Johnson, Wallace would be the #1 pigeon on this defense and he has been for a couple years now. Athletically, he's probably slightly below average compared to his peers at the position, but the biggest problem to me is that his technique is absolutely atrocious. maybe it's because he's regularly beat at the snap and is always struggling to recover, maybe he doesn't process information and react instantly like you need to at that position, or maybe his physical limitations put him at such a disadvantage that he can't execute properly in coverage; whichever the case, he simply has no business starting as a corner on an NFL defense. Whenever I see a film clip of Wallace going against Diggs in practice, Diggs is stripping his lower body and stomping his jock with his cleats. That's par for the course to what other teams top receivers do to him. 2 hours ago, JohnNord said: I wanted an upgrade from Levi this year but he holds his own most of the time, which is more then you can say about Daryl Worley Yeah, that guy was bad. Thought Dane Jackson showed promise, though.
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