Trumps play to disenfranise and steal election

[WideNine]

The main thrust of the barrage of these tactics is to stall the state vote certification process in the hopes of having states default on their certification deadlines and allow GOP legislators in states where they control the chambers to overide the popular vote.

 

There are a lot of checks against this actual stealing of elections and many states have laws to prevent "faithless" electors that try to vote in a way that does not reflect the popular vote of their state.

 

More regarding safeguards:

  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/19/how-electoral-college-works-437749

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

Looking around at what's happening I don't believe Trump's plan is to "steal the election".  None of these legal challenges are having a real impact.  The latest ruling in PA was a blow to his chances.  I have doubts the US Supreme Court will hear the appeal or rule in his favor.  From my interpretation of the PA court ruling is they acted properly so there is shaky and perhaps no legal ground for the Supreme Court to overrule the decision.  None of the other state challenges are moving the vote totals to anything that might change the result.  In a couple week's the electors from all states will meet and this will be over.  Do I think the Democratic party machines is these key districts in the swing states played fast and loose with the mail-in vote process and vote counting?  Absolutely.  But they've had sufficient time to plan and prepare well for any conceivable vote challenge.  Like a good friend of mine pointed out about the legal process "its not what you know or think its what you can prove" that matters.  The time is short and the legal process is slow.  The clock will simply run out on Trump here.  

 

I think Trump has a few objectives beyond reversing the election:

 

1). Stay relevant through to 2024.

2). Give his followers a cause going forward, the new resistance.

3). Engage in a "scorched earth" policy prior to the transition in January.

4). Position himself to be blameless for the economic and social disaster that awaits us in 2021 (you should position yourselves too).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[oldmanfan]

I think whomever the new Attorney General is, he or she may appoint a special prosecutor to determine if Trump committed sedition by illegally trying to subvert the lection.

[SoCal Deek]

zzzzzz

[TBBills]

Trump's plan is to destroy the country before Jan 20th. He has all his feeble minded Trumpies helping him do it. Cannot wait for Jan 20th, only problem is it will take a very long time to undo the damage that corrupt man has done.

[ALF]

Donald J. Trump

 

@realDonaldTrump

Why is Joe Biden so quickly forming a Cabinet when my investigators have found hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes, enough to “flip” at least four States, which in turn is more than enough to win the Election? Hopefully the Courts and/or Legislatures will have....

This claim about election fraud is disputed

8:18 PM · Nov 21, 2020

 

unreal

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think whomever the new Attorney General is, he or she may appoint a special prosecutor to determine if Trump committed sedition by illegally trying to subvert the lection.

Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system.  So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law?  Nothing.  And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims.  These rulings appear to be correct.  Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. 

 

I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system.  Its a dangerous path to take.  Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim.  That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents.   Who will stop it?  Defunded police organizations?  The FBI? There are only so many agents.  National Guard, active military?  Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here?  Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa?  Doubtful.  BLM?  Its not their fight.  

 

The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on.      

Edited November 22, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system.  So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law?  Nothing.  And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims.  These rulings appear to be correct.  Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. 

 

I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system.  Its a dangerous path to take.  Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim.  That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents.   Who will stop it?  Defunded police organizations?  The FBI? There are only so many agents.  National Guard, active military?  Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here?  Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa?  Doubtful.  BLM?  Its not their fight.  

 

The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on.      

I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be.  But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion.  That is sedition.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Looking around at what's happening I don't believe Trump's plan is to "steal the election".  None of these legal challenges are having a real impact.  The latest ruling in PA was a blow to his chances.  I have doubts the US Supreme Court will hear the appeal or rule in his favor.  From my interpretation of the PA court ruling is they acted properly so there is shaky and perhaps no legal ground for the Supreme Court to overrule the decision.  None of the other state challenges are moving the vote totals to anything that might change the result.  In a couple week's the electors from all states will meet and this will be over.  Do I think the Democratic party machines is these key districts in the swing states played fast and loose with the mail-in vote process and vote counting?  Absolutely.  But they've had sufficient time to plan and prepare well for any conceivable vote challenge.  Like a good friend of mine pointed out about the legal process "its not what you know or think its what you can prove" that matters.  The time is short and the legal process is slow.  The clock will simply run out on Trump here.  

 

I think Trump has a few objectives beyond reversing the election:

 

1). Stay relevant through to 2024.

2). Give his followers a cause going forward, the new resistance.

3). Engage in a "scorched earth" policy prior to the transition in January.

4). Position himself to be blameless for the economic and social disaster that awaits us in 2021 (you should position yourselves too).

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, he wants to control GOP lol 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-trump-hopes-to-use-party-machinery-to-retain-control-of-the-g-o-p/ar-BB1bfuY8

 

The guest who wouldnt leave 

 

[IndyMark]

37 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system.  So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law?  Nothing.  And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims.  These rulings appear to be correct.  Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. 

 

I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system.  Its a dangerous path to take.  Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim.  That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents.   Who will stop it?  Defunded police organizations?  The FBI? There are only so many agents.  National Guard, active military?  Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here?  Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa?  Doubtful.  BLM?  Its not their fight.  

 

The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on.      

 

To confirm, you believed this during the Trump impeachment proceedings and the investigation into Russia interfering with the 2016 election, among the other alleged improprieties by the Trump administration?  You support those legal proceedings right?  And would tell those on the "right" the bolded also?  Good.  Just so we are clear.

 

*** also to state the "majority" of claims have gone against the trump team is a bit of an understatement, no?  How about 99.99999%?  And the harm is a waste of time, money, and inciting his cult followers.  But I guess seeing as this is coming from real americans, that is ok?  Finally, you may be surprised how many military personnel absolutely abhor trump; with the GOP needing to be mindful of their association.

Edited November 22, 2020 by IndyMark

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be.  But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion.  That is sedition.

You are invoking the quid pro quo argument.  You are alleging some conspiracy to alter the election results.  Assuming Trump offered a member of the state legislator "something" in return for his cooperation in blocking the certification of the election.  The meeting itself is not illegal.  And there is no evidence any arrangement was offered or accepted.  What's to investigate?  Two people had a meeting, it ended, and they left.  

 

I'm not attacking you or what you say.  My basic contention is the entire political system is a fraud.  And left, right, or center we're all getting played by one or another peddling some fraudster fantasy story about how much they care about everybody.   And how wonderful life will be with them leading us forward to prosperity.  I could suggest that any and all future meetings between politicians and lobbyists should be scrutinized to the same degree.  What are they offering? Campaign contributions, jobs for family members, free trips, and other perks in exchange for political favors or lucrative legislation for their employers.  Sounds illegal.   

 

 

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

And there is no evidence any arrangement was offered or accepted.  What's to investigate?

Been wondering the same thing with all these Trump tweets. What is to investigate? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, IndyMark said:

 

To confirm, you believed this during the Trump impeachment proceedings and the investigation into Russia interfering with the 2016 election, among the other alleged improprieties by the Trump administration?  You support those legal proceedings right?  And would tell those on the "right" the bolded also?  Good.  Just so we are clear.

I think the Russia collusion theory is a big hoax manufactured by Obama and his cronies to cripple the new administration.  And it worked pretty well for them. 

[IndyMark]

And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax?  Manufactured by Trump? 

 

Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing.  No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. 

[TBBills]

Just now, IndyMark said:

And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax?  Manufactured by Trump? 

 

Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing.  No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. 

During a pandemic, tearing this country apart, damage that may never be fixed from republicans. 

All the while, Golf...

[All_Pro_Bills]

56 minutes ago, IndyMark said:

And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax?  Manufactured by Trump? 

 

Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing.  No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. 

So are you saying the 2016 Russian collusion story and 2020 election fraud are both hoaxes?  To this point based on evidence and facts I'd tend to agree..

[Iron Maiden]

Trump himself knows he lost ...he's only squeezing his followers for every $$ he can....It's going to be all over by Dec. 14th....the campaign in is the red right now...the last few weeks of the race were costly.....and obviously, were pointless....80 Millions Americans said so.....the GOP needs to get rid of Trumpism ....now....

Edited November 22, 2020 by Iron Maiden

[shoshin]

16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So are you saying the 2016 Russian collusion story and 2020 election fraud are both hoaxes?  To this point based on evidence and facts I'd tend to agree..

My guess is that the Parler and MSNBC safe space seeking folk tend to overlook the similarities. 

[ALF]

Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on a House Democratic leadership call Thursday night that President Trump is a “psychopathic nut,” Politico reports.

 

https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/20/pelosi-calls-trump-a-psychopathic-nut/

 

I think she's starting to like him   🙂

[TBBills]

20 minutes ago, ALF said:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on a House Democratic leadership call Thursday night that President Trump is a “psychopathic nut,” Politico reports.

 

https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/20/pelosi-calls-trump-a-psychopathic-nut/

 

I think she's starting to like him   🙂

She is speaking the truth.