WideNine Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I mean she had a press conference where Giuliani was standing to her right, pretending she had nothing to do with them is just crazy. This administration knows how to do "crazy" like none other. When I worked for a large global company I was talking to a bunch of guys in India. These guys earn half of what we do, live just above the poverty line there, and were sharing hotel rooms so they could afford to work many miles from where their families lived. All that, and they were watching the news and pitying me, saying they would pray for the US that we would endure this administration - they were very polite and circumspect about it. It just struck me that dirt-poor people in other countries were "praying for us"... Make America Great Again?
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, Buddo said: I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defend OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives! That's a tweet from Trump on 15th November, that is in the 'Legal Machine Grinds to a Halt' thread on the last page. I don't know how to link it between the threads, but clicking on it in the thread, does take you to the actual tweet. I'm assuming that there is the evidence you wanted that Powell was associated with Trump's legal team, and it's also why msm have linked her o it. That and being around some pressers with Guiliani et al. I'm really just speaking about entry level civics issues. I'm amazed that I've been criticized for my position multiple times, when it's really pretty simple: DJT should be afforded the right to see things through. I find it the least controversial thing written on this board. For that, I've been accused of being unpatriotic (1x), treasonous behavior (1x), condescending (multiple), of applying circular logic (1x), of deflection (multiple times) of having limited intellect (multiple), attempting character assassination (1x), gift-wrapping horse poop and running some odd science experiment where I can't see water draining from a tub after I removed a plug. The point on Sidney Powell was an honest response to an honest question (I've been accused of not answering questions-multiple times). It may not matter at all, and I concur wholeheartedly with @shoshin that Sidney Powell was front and center at Trump Fight 2020 Pressers, but it is quite odd that multiple news sources referenced her as a member of the team multiple times over an extended period of time. At a minimum, that's sloppy journalism in an era of sloppy and imo partsan journalism. Such is life for a simple conservative soldier amongst the tolerant left.
Buddo Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'm really just speaking about entry level civics issues. I'm amazed that I've been criticized for my position multiple times, when it's really pretty simple: DJT should be afforded the right to see things through. I find it the least controversial thing written on this board. For that, I've been accused of being unpatriotic (1x), treasonous behavior (1x), condescending (multiple), of applying circular logic (1x), of deflection (multiple times) of having limited intellect (multiple), attempting character assassination (1x), gift-wrapping horse poop and running some odd science experiment where I can't see water draining from a tub after I removed a plug. The point on Sidney Powell was an honest response to an honest question (I've been accused of not answering questions-multiple times). It may not matter at all, and I concur wholeheartedly with @shoshin that Sidney Powell was front and center at Trump Fight 2020 Pressers, but it is quite odd that multiple news sources referenced her as a member of the team multiple times over an extended period of time. At a minimum, that's sloppy journalism in an era of sloppy and imo partsan journalism. Such is life for a simple conservative soldier amongst the tolerant left. If you look at the tweet in the thread mentioned, there is the reason why Powell was referenced - because Trump tweeted she was part of the team. There's no sloppy journalism about that. It would be sloppy journalism not to include her after the tweet. I don't see that as partisan, at all, merely a statement of fact based off of what Trump has tweeted. While it certainly has become increasingly difficult to get any unbiased viewpoint about the election, sometimes you just have to call a crackpot, a crackpot, additional evidence being the fact that Team Trump is trying to move several steps away from Powell, quickly. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Buddo said: If you look at the tweet in the thread mentioned, there is the reason why Powell was referenced - because Trump tweeted she was part of the team. There's no sloppy journalism about that. It would be sloppy journalism not to include her after the tweet. I don't see that as partisan, at all, merely a statement of fact based off of what Trump has tweeted. While it certainly has become increasingly difficult to get any unbiased viewpoint about the election, sometimes you just have to call a crackpot, a crackpot, additional evidence being the fact that Team Trump is trying to move several steps away from Powell, quickly. I'll check that out. Thanks. Everything involves bias, I'm afraid, so I'll proceed with caution.
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'll check that out. Thanks. Everything involves bias, I'm afraid, so I'll proceed with caution. All you have to do is read my or his quote of Trump, where he says she was on the team, or where she was in the Trump legal strike force press conference. Or where you said she was an example of Trump’s vaunted team. You’re right though, that journalists should question Trump’s grasp of reality. At some point, supporters may have to admit that Trump’s “legal rights” fight is a national embarrassment cherry on top of his presidency. Do you find it telling that he’s not had an appointment in the last 12 days?
I-town Bills Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 I have some shocking news. Twitter and Breitbart are not admissible in a court of law. Lawyers who actually handle court cases are officers of the court and have a good-faith obligation not to misspeak. When you hire media darlings as your counsel you get charged a lot for a little expertise.
JaCrispy Posted November 24, 2020 Author Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, WideNine said: If folks dig hard enough they will either come to an insurmountable truth, or something they can disagree on in principle. Cutting through the junk information to the source information makes the journey worth it for some. It is fine to agree to disagree. I do find it concerning that so many Trump supporters are willing to go so far out on a conspiratorial limb to either defend or promote his self-interests. As we have seen in the courtroom these past few weeks this propensity has splattered against the windshield of reality. Tweets, youtube videos, Fox News pundits, and political opinion pieces are not reality, they are not facts, and amazingly they are not admissible as evidence. I read a liberal article the other day lamenting a conservative court nominee that stressed how she was rated "unqualified" by the BAR. I dug one level deeper and checked out the BAR website and the candidate in particular and found that according to her peers and any who had worked with her, she was a rock star - a prodigy. The BAR qualified their "unqualified" rating by saying she simply had not fulfilled the requisite number of years arguing before the bench as a trial lawyer, but she had ample experience litigating elsewhere. Like anyone else I miss a few, but this is how I "try" to approach most information I digest from venues that have a known political/social slant. Interesting take 👍 I tend to see both the Left and the Right having conspiracy theories to discredit their opponents...it’s just seems that people on the political Left believe their side’s conspiracy theories as true, as do people on the Right with their side’s conspiracy theories...Both sides think they are infallible, causing them to think their opposition is the worst of the worst...and then neither side feels a need to self examine, causing the polarization to grow deeper and deeper imo... Edited November 24, 2020 by JaCrispy
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Interesting take 👍 I tend to see both the Left and the Right having conspiracy theories to discredit their opponents...it’s just seems that people on the political Left believe their side’s conspiracy theories as true, as do people on the Right with their side’s conspiracy theories...Both sides think they are infallible, and therefore never self examine, causing the polarization to grow deeper and deeper imo... I agree with this and think that the echo chambers reinforce the conspiratorial mindset. When all you hear are the voices in your head reflected back, you start to believe that you know what's best always, and that goes strange places. Fortunately, I still think that most of the country is not off in looney land but is quietly and/or apathetically in the middle between the QAnon and AOC crowds. 1
WideNine Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: I tend to see both the Left and the Right having conspiracy theories to discredit their opponents...it’s just seems that people on the political Left believe their side’s conspiracy theories as true, as do people on the Right with their side’s conspiracy theories...Both sides think they are infallible, and therefore never self examine, causing the polarization to grow deeper and deeper imo... I am a conservative and actually pro-life, my wife is more liberal and we debate topics all the time. Trump for me is a danger for this democracy because the Senate and the DOJ do not and will not check his abuse of power. I am comfortable saying I am a conservative leaning moderate, but Trump is a bridge too far for me. 3
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, WideNine said: I am a conservative and actually pro-life, my wife is more liberal and we debate topics all the time. Trump for me is a danger for this democracy because the Senate and the DOJ do not and will not check his abuse of power. I am comfortable saying I am a conservative leaning moderate, but Trump is a bridge too far for me. Biden was only the second D president I voted for in 7 elections and although I voted for him, I do not particularly agree with him on a lot. Trumpism, an amoral cult of personality, is not about the UNITED States of America. It was about him first and the current tantrum amplifies this. It may be where we are headed with Trumpists facing off against the AOC-socialists but I hope the moderate majority may put things back together and overcome the social media/cable news/talk show echo-chambering of the country. TBD. Edited November 24, 2020 by shoshin 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, shoshin said: All you have to do is read my or his quote of Trump, where he says she was on the team, or where she was in the Trump legal strike force press conference. Or where you said she was an example of Trump’s vaunted team. You’re right though, that journalists should question Trump’s grasp of reality. At some point, supporters may have to admit that Trump’s “legal rights” fight is a national embarrassment cherry on top of his presidency. Do you find it telling that he’s not had an appointment in the last 12 days? The only thing I find telling is the liberal white vote for a Biden presidency. Beyond that, it seems likely that Donald Trump’s supporters have to acknowledge Biden is the president of the United States. That time is drawing closer, but thank goodness to day is not that day. Such is life.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 Hot off the presses with this scoop! Please don't ask for my sources, I don't want to out @Dunkirk Don... But, check this. I guess I was wrong, and I am a bigger man to admit it! Joe Biden really did steal the election! /smh https://howbidenstoletheelection.com It's ALL there, the evidence, the information. This is huge. 47 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: The only thing I find telling is the liberal white vote for a Biden presidency. Beyond that, it seems likely that Donald Trump’s supporters have to acknowledge Biden is the president of the United States. That time is drawing closer, but thank goodness to day is not that day. Such is life. Don't give up hope before you read my link I just posted. Biden is a thief! STOP THIEF! 1
Kemp Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 Trump was right!!!! There was election fraud!!!!!!!! https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/florida-dark-money-mystery-invs/index.html
WideNine Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, Kemp said: Trump was right!!!! There was election fraud!!!!!!!! https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/florida-dark-money-mystery-invs/index.html That is some sneaky GOP business....interesting to see where the legality of this goes. I've always said that "The thief has the most locks on their doors", and here we see the GOP shouting election fraud and stealing from the rooftops - go figure.
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, WideNine said: That is some sneaky GOP business....interesting to see where the legality of this goes. I've always said that "The thief has the most locks on their doors", and here we see the GOP shouting election fraud and stealing from the rooftops - go figure. I don’t know that it’s GOP business but that’s wild. Another Florida Man story.
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) There's this tactic where Trumpists say, "How can you argue that he has no right to challenge the election?" And the answer is: We can't. But the truth is Trump has been saying himself, and through his legal strike force in press conferences, that the election was a fraud and that he won. He's not been saying that he wants a recount to confirm democracy worked and to make sure the result was fair--he's been saying that democracy failed and that Americans have engaged in a wide-sweeping conspiracy to undermine a presidential election and he wants to catch the evil-doers. This is a decidedly different approach than what Gore (no fan of his and don't like using him as a particularly better example, but he is in this case) requested when he needed only 500 votes to swap to change the entire result. And Trump is spreading flat out lies about it, so yes when we say someone in power is undermining the democratic process, we have a candidate for that "someone." Today's example. Edited November 24, 2020 by shoshin
JaCrispy Posted November 24, 2020 Author Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, WideNine said: I am a conservative and actually pro-life, my wife is more liberal and we debate topics all the time. Trump for me is a danger for this democracy because the Senate and the DOJ do not and will not check his abuse of power. I am comfortable saying I am a conservative leaning moderate, but Trump is a bridge too far for me. I respect that...I’m a moderate Democrat who liked Trump’s policies, for the most part, but didn’t necessarily agree with his antics... Edited November 24, 2020 by JaCrispy 1
shoshin Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: I respect that...I’m a moderate who liked Trump’s policies, for the most part, but didn’t necessarily agree with his antics... This is the crux of Trumpism's problem. I also was OK with much of what he did: China, withdrawing troops from hot spots, and court choices being the three biggest items I agreed with. The Trumpism problem is the the rhetoric inflamed real division. His Captain Chaos approach to our managing the country tore apart America. He is the Twitter president, for worse only, not better. I believe Biden will at least not be that and that's important. Make American Politics Boring Again. 2
TBBills Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 Hell I will even admit I voted for Trump the first time... Didn't know he would be full of lies and corruption and destroy this country.
JaCrispy Posted November 24, 2020 Author Posted November 24, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: This is the crux of Trumpism's problem. I also was OK with much of what he did: China, withdrawing troops from hot spots, and court choices being the three biggest items I agreed with. The Trumpism problem is the the rhetoric inflamed real division. His Captain Chaos approach to our managing the country tore apart America. He is the Twitter president, for worse only, not better. I believe Biden will at least not be that and that's important. Make American Politics Boring Again. I agree to some extent...I tend to go in the direction that the country was already torn apart, and that the socialists and their media allies were hiding beneath the surface...imo conservatives sensed the country was slipping away into endless bureaucracy and globalism that they voted for someone they felt wasn’t a part of the deep state- a person who wasn’t beholden to the PR machine of the military industrial complex...to me, this is the REAL reason the Left, including Republicans, hated Trump... Sure, the tweets and tantrums were cringe and annoying as hell...But imo they hated him because he shined a light on who they really were and what their goal was for the country- their hatred of his policies, which thwarted their own agenda of limiting the growth and self sufficiency of the country, through big government control, as they prepared to make us a more subservient member of a global NWO, had been exposed... No illustration of this could have been more clear than when, during Trump’s State of the Union address, when announcing the lowest minority unemployment rate ever, socialists and Democrats just sat on their hands, and couldn’t be more unhappy...I was blown away...they can’t even be happy for their own, supposed constituency, if it doesn’t support their agenda of showing Trump to be a racist...it was disgusting- but VERY illuminating... Was Trump a narcissist? Yes Was he immature at times? Yes But his policies seemed to be working for the country. And because his views seemed to try to maintain individual liberty, I was able to move passed that other stuff... Joe Biden, on the other hand is a Deep State globalist imo- just like Hillary, Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, and Bush Sr, before him...The only difference is Joe is now being controlled by the socialist wing of his party, which is extremely dangerous for anyone who loves this country. May the good lord bring peace and understanding back to this nation...👍 1
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