The future for both parties and realignment

[TBBills]

16 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

We know why doctors and nurses wear them and it isnt so you dont catch the flu.

 

The CDC estimates that as many as 10 times the actual number we are counting has or had it.

 

CDC chief says coronavirus cases may be 10 times higher than reported

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/25/coronavirus-cases-10-times-larger/

 

Those are the facts.  Also, TDSBills, did you know this is how they estimate IFRs.  You can go on the rigged Google and search that.  After the first headlines come up of "Trump knew IFR rate and lied," and "Its not the flu, bro" and probably "Trump pressures CDC to downplay cases" all of which take you to Daily Beast or Vox, you'll eventually get a little science.  

 

You prove in all your posts you're fairly worthless to respond to. 

 

But I live rent free in your brain and that makes me happy.  

WTF why did you totally go off your mask debacle and come into this?  I know about all of this, Remember when Trump was saying that we needed to stop testing people? That is why they think it might be higher than reported. Not to mention Asymptomatic people who didn't even know... so what does this have to do with your mask debacle other than more proof why wearing one is good for everyone right now?

 

You only dont like responding to me b/c other people end up shitting on your responses and finding so many problems, like you not reading articles that you post as "DONT WEAR MASK THEY ARE USELESS" 

 

Or your long ass "I hate democrats" thread. ***** if you live rent free in my brain I wonder how much damage I am doing in your nutbag head, seems like a lot since every time you post people rip your arguments apart.

Edited November 20, 2020 by TBBills

[The Frankish Reich]

On 11/20/2020 at 1:10 AM, Big Blitz said:

Realignment has happened and it culminated in the s..t show that is 2020.  

 

The GOP needs to embrace the following in a "rebrand."

 

Classical liberals. in the truist sense of the meaning.  Think Thomas Jefferson.  Not Josef Stalin.  We forward think.  Enough of the Big Lie of the last 20 years that the Dems are the forward thinkers.  A New Center Right coalition must reach out to everyone turned off by what they're seeing on that ....other team.  

 

The realignment that has happened which the "left" doesn't understand or realize has happened to them, "Liberals" that came of age from 1970 to 2000 have not been liberals working for the working man.  They have morphed into big government statists seeking power and control that want you to think they represent you.  By you know, making you dependent on them.  That isn't forward thinking.  That isn't thinking at all.  And it might be the biggest lie believed by far too many in America.  Why would you want people happy and successful when your base relies on poverty and misery? 

 

The Democrats today are supporting suppression of free thought by simply remaining complicit as Silicon Valley decides the thought.  All working for Democrats of course so great deal for them.  But they have deliberately gone silent on the culture wars in which one side (their base) works night and day to cancel someone.  Anyone right of center.  

 

Big Blitz, nicely done. I certainly don't agree with everything you say here (although I'm probably 90% with you on the part I quoted above), but you've hit the nail on the head: we have strange coalitions now in the USA, they're unstable, and they've left little room for people like us.

 

I was never so wrong about politics as I was after Obama's reelection. I saw a libertarian (small L) movement arising, and to me it was evident in what we were seeing on the state level:

- emerging consensus in favor of the libertarian view of social issues. I can't remember who said it, but it was around 2010: the wars over same sex marriage and legal marijuana will soon be over. And they essentially are, although the federal government isn't quite there yet on marijuana. The social conservative movement was looking dead in the water.

- continued lack of interest in high tax/high spend philosophies. Obamacare was unpopular. And increased taxation has remained unpopular. I live in Colorado: legal weed? Check. Gay Governor? Check. Broad support for climate change initiatives, etc? Check. So we voted in the last few tax hikes, right? Umm, no. We shot them all down. I see Arizona, Georgia, Texas, etc. all going the same way. Call it "half California." It isn't a coherent political philosophy yet (how you gonna pay for all those environmental mandates), but it is a sign that the majority has its limits on big government.

 

Sean Trende at RCP is pretty insightful here. Coalitions are never permanent in American politics. A political party expands its appeal in one direction, it necessarily loses support in the other direction. The GOP coalition of wealthy highly educated suburbanites and rural/exurban whites ("I love the poorly educated") could never last. It didn't. The suburbanites fled. And the Democratic Party embrace of far left identity politics following the BLM movement is also causing some feeling of being left out and a loss of Hispanic support; it looks like not all minorities think and vote alike after all. It appears that the Democratic coalition of urban racial minorities and highly educated urban and suburban whites might not be so stable either. 

 

I don't think Trump did anything to "realign" the parties. He's just the logical endpoint of what Reagan and then Bush 43 started: white cultural conservatives + white wealth protectors. But it is an endpoint, not a beginning of anything. So too is Biden, making the same old appeals to the "middle class" sitting around that proverbial kitchen table -- a demographic he lost pretty horribly by all accounts.

 

So realignment will come. I hope I'm right this time: a pro-liberty (social and economic) party vs. a statist party. 

[Big Blitz]

As I was saying.....I had my hypothesis.....here is proof..

 

Realignment

 

 

 

Ted Cruz seems to get it.  If he does, the GOP is about to become something fundamentally different then it was circa 1998 to 2008.

 

Trump opened this door.  The party of the working class and American values is what Americans vote for. 

 

The 3 most significant things they can do:

 

1.  Exactly what Bannon said the upper tax rate should be....."start with the number 4."  Paul Ryan disagreed.  Goodbye Paul.  Enjoy your irrelevance.  Your big corporation and Wall Street buddies don't support you they support Dems now.  Peace out.  75 million Americans don't care and are behind you.  Be the party of Main Street and more importantly Main Street values.  

 

2. Start agreeing to spending on popular programs and projects at home ON AMERICANS.  Repeat over and over again America First.   We tend to like our schools and infrastructure projects.  We like our Social Security.  Fund it. 

 

3.  Border security.  Despite the racist media telling you minorities oppose all things that clamp down on illegal immigration, this is false and a lie.  Everyone sane wants border security, an end to chain migration, and absolutely no amnesty.  

 

 

 

Carry on with your Dark Winter.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Warcodered]

26 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

As I was saying.....I had my hypothesis.....here is proof..

 

Realignment

 

 

 

Ted Cruz seems to get it.  If he does, the GOP is about to become something fundamentally different then it was circa 1998 to 2008.

 

Trump opened this door.  The party of the working class and American values is what Americans vote for. 

 

The 3 most significant things they can do:

 

1.  Exactly what Bannon said the upper tax rate should be....."start with the number 4."  Paul Ryan disagreed.  Goodbye Paul.  Enjoy your irrelevance.  Your big corporation and Wall Street buddies don't support you they support Dems now.  Peace out.  75 million Americans don't care and are behind you.  Be the party of Main Street and more importantly Main Street values.  

 

2. Start agreeing to spending on popular programs and projects at home ON AMERICANS.  Repeat over and over again America First.   We tend to like our schools and infrastructure projects.  We like our Social Security.  Fund it. 

 

3.  Border security.  Despite the racist media telling you minorities oppose all things that clamp down on illegal immigration, this is false and a lie.  Everyone sane wants border security, an end to chain migration, and absolutely no amnesty.  

 

 

 

Carry on with your Dark Winter.  

Your graphs don't say what you say they do. The first one says that people with a higher education support Democrats I'm not sure in what world that is good thing for Republicans. The second doesn't say things have reversed for highest paid incomes, if it says anything it's that it went from favoring Republicans to being balanced. I mean if we're using Presidential elections as the metric the previous one was pretty much even and the one two before that was also even. A single election is hardly enough data to say the trend is going that way when the 4 previous contradict it.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Warcodered

[JaCrispy]

On 11/20/2020 at 3:10 AM, Big Blitz said:

Realignment has happened and it culminated in the s..t show that is 2020.  

 

The GOP needs to embrace the following in a "rebrand."

 

Classical liberals. in the truist sense of the meaning.  Think Thomas Jefferson.  Not Josef Stalin.  We forward think.  Enough of the Big Lie of the last 20 years that the Dems are the forward thinkers.  A New Center Right coalition must reach out to everyone turned off by what they're seeing on that ....other team.  

 

The realignment that has happened which the "left" doesn't understand or realize has happened to them, "Liberals" that came of age from 1970 to 2000 have not been liberals working for the working man.  They have morphed into big government statists seeking power and control that want you to think they represent you.  By you know, making you dependent on them.  That isn't forward thinking.  That isn't thinking at all.  And it might be the biggest lie believed by far too many in America.  Why would you want people happy and successful when your base relies on poverty and misery? 

 

The Democrats today are supporting suppression of free thought by simply remaining complicit as Silicon Valley decides the thought.  All working for Democrats of course so great deal for them.  But they have deliberately gone silent on the culture wars in which one side (their base) works night and day to cancel someone.  Anyone right of center.  

 

But that spectrum has "realigned" and doesn't exist because there is no left.  If there are any true liberals, they would call this out.  But they don't.  See fascists don't see themselves as being on the ideological spectrum.  They thought they were above it and their ideas were superior to everyone else.  Whatever got them to achieve their ends.  And you remained loyal to the State.  Does that sound anything like the people the Ds are calling fascists?   

 

The Democrats in America are so quick to want to call Trump and Republicans the fascists but why?  Who has been oppressed and silenced by the right?  Who has lost a job because they support Biden?  Which side feels like it can't even say anything?   Who is out there calling for lists of Trump voters to be scorned and not get a lick of media coverage not named Breitbart to call it out?  One of them with a blue check mark and has an actual job as a jOuRnAliSt actually asked if Trump voters need re education camps.  Obama sucked as president.  By I never once thought of his voters the way the left does Trump voters.  All 74 million of us and however many more are on flash drives somewhere.  

 

 

The New Right, that's what we are, its a hybrid of populism and classical liberalism.  Yes it can be both.  A big tent center right coalition.  And it needs proper spokesmen.  Their side would say spokesperson.  Yea we're done with 1984.  So the right can do this because its sound, and because the left has gone off the reservation.  In their 1984 universe that word is probably offensive and triggering.    

 

DC has a role.  But it needs to be limited.  The playing field in America is an equal one so long as you adhere to a few simple principles.  The most important being a respect for individual and minority rights.  That the country and all it's people are generally good and want to get along but the impediment to that is the Establishment media, and this new fascist new left.  

 

The Statists (big government control) vs the New Center Right (classical liberals).  That's the realignment.  Its official.  GOP needs to find a way to make that work.  Conservative values are obviously still a hallmark.  But it's not how you run in 2020 and beyond by saying "I'm a true conservative."  Appeal to the working man.  Have ideas that resonate.  And yes, you are going to have to do a few things that will absolutely get the sane moderate on board.  You're going to have to increase taxes on the wealthy.  And you are going to have to support renewables.  AND fossil fuels.  I'm sorry but I'm failing to see why unwavering support for fossil fuels is conservative.  Who cares?   Explain that transitions that won't devastate our economy are taking place where we can.  The Energy industry is doing a lot of this on it's own.  When they ask you if you believe in global warming you have to say yes, but that doesn't mean we just drop fossil fuels and end CO2 emissions because we can't.  As part of all infrastructure projects going green should not be a controversial decision so long as the costs to the working man aren't costs but savings.  The ship has sailed.  Just embrace it with small government principles.  Not crony capitalism.  

 

We are still a party that supports life but if you arent all aboard we won't not vote for you.  We've done it all the time.  The other side?  Yea there are zero pro life Democrats.  Let that sink in.  And we absolutely need to be a legit border hawk party.  Asylum does not include "I want to come to America bc my life is hard in Mexico."  That doesn't meet the criteria by law of asylum the media wont tell you about.  Come in. Legally.  Speak and learn English and assimilate.  That doesn't mean abandon your heritage.  It means embrace Western Civilization while you're at it or no, you aren't welcome here.  You came here to be an American not to live in America.  And the reason you need years before citizenship and the right to vote is because you may not be familiar with the West and what we are heirs to.  Assimilate.  

 

Appeal to the people that feel the Democrat Party has abandoned the Constitution in exchange for power to be just like China.  That resonates.  And yep, run as many minorities and women that understand this message and can articulate it all.  The voter likes to see diversity but our people will actually be intelligent forward thinkers, not just there to find ways to use government to screw up everything it touches and certainly not ignore the concerns of and writing off of half the country.

 

 

Thanks for reading.  Either flame away.  Ignore.  Run with it.  I don't care.  What I do care about is this country and my kids and yours futures.  And the dynamic of half the country spending all day trying to figure out how to dunk on the other half.  That a nasty anti American sentiment has permeated I'd say at least 30% of Democrats.  Its absolutely fascist.  That has to end by being beaten locally and statewide coast to coast.  

This is a great post...I’m a liberal Democrat in the style of JFK....but the Left, today, would call me alt-right, which is laughable, considering that, for two generations, my party was known as the party of Kennedy...

 

I very much agree with your notion of the realignment...in another thread I referenced that we are seeing the old Bush Republicans “Never Trumpers” supporting Biden, while the old “Blue Dog” Democrats support Trump...Trump, himself, used to be a Democrat...And if you look at old speeches from Bill Clinton, talking about how “the era of big government is over” and how we need to secure our boarders to protect minority jobs in the urban communities, he sounded like a Republican from today...So, it is definitely interesting to see this all happening before our eyes...my party, pretty much has the opposite views now of what it had 20 years ago...

Edited December 1, 2020 by JaCrispy

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Your graphs don't say what you say they do. The first one says that people with a higher education support Democrats I'm not sure in what world that is good thing for Republicans. The second doesn't say things have reversed for highest paid incomes, if it says anything it's that it went from favoring Republicans to being balanced. I mean if we're using Presidential elections as the metric the previous one was pretty much even and the one two before that was also even. A single election is hardly enough data to say the trend is going that way when the 4 previous contradict it.

This ‘education’ issue is overblown and imo manufactured to make liberals feel better about themselves and their cause.  Ditto with the ‘angry white male’ narrative.  Partner it with “angry white male voters tell  their women what to think and how to vote”  competes the trifecta or silliness that doesn’t address the 70,000,000+ votes and historic R turnout among people of color for DJT.  
 

Be that as it may, for some and likely many, traditional higher education is overpriced and overrated. It’s incredibly ironic to me that many, many Biden supporters will be out championing the collective intellect of the liberal voter while planning to be first in line when the “We’ll Make Someone Else Pay Your College Debt” program.  
 

I know many, many people who chose to follow a path that did not include traditional education who knew what many highly educated Americans do not:  the choice  to incur the debt associated with  a $100/per hour education financed with a $25/per hour occupation is dumb as $&$&. 
 

Credit to Biden though for bumping the victimized class to those earning up to $399,999.  When you offer people the choice between honoring their debt, integrity and a free payday, lots will take the free pay day. 
 

 

[shoshin]

At what point, I wonder, do the Trump people who believe in an election conspiracy (Lehnerd seems to be the only person who hasn’t fled to the snowflake protection zone) and the many other conspiracies where everything is someone else’s fault/a plot, realize they’ve been had? 
 

And will they just find another Trump like Cruz or admit they were duped, maybe move on to a more realistic channel for their frustration. 

 

I’m less familiar with what happened to avid McCarthyists as he fell from grace but that’s the obvious analogy. This election fiction is witch hunt McCarthyesque nuttiness now. And lack of evidence is fueling the fire not dampening it. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by shoshin

[SoTier]

40 minutes ago, shoshin said:

At what point, I wonder, do the Trump people who believe in an election conspiracy (Lehnerd seems to be the only person who hasn’t fled to the snowflake protection zone) and the many other conspiracies where everything is someone else’s fault/a plot, realize they’ve been had? 
 

And will they just find another Trump like Cruz or admit they were duped, maybe move on to a more realistic channel for their frustration. 

 

I’m less familiar with what happened to avid McCarthyists as he fell from grace but that’s the obvious analogy. This election fiction is witch hunt McCarthyesque nuttiness now. And lack of evidence is fueling the fire not dampening it. 

 

McCarthy's accusations had a chilling effect on American politics for most of the 1950s and into the 1960s because being accused of being "a Communist" was the kiss of death to anybody's political ambitions, but during the mid-1950s, there was a general consensus in the US that Communism was an invidious menace that threatened the US from within and without.  By the late 1950s, the idea that Communism was an internal threat to the US faded into far right wing conspiracy theory that lasted for decades while the consensus American opinion saw Communism as a foreign menace.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, shoshin said:

At what point, I wonder, do the Trump people who believe in an election conspiracy (Lehnerd seems to be the only person who hasn’t fled to the snowflake protection zone) and the many other conspiracies where everything is someone else’s fault/a plot, realize they’ve been had? 
 

And will they just find another Trump like Cruz or admit they were duped, maybe move on to a more realistic channel for their frustration. 

 

I’m less familiar with what happened to avid McCarthyists as he fell from grace but that’s the obvious analogy. This election fiction is witch hunt McCarthyesque nuttiness now. And lack of evidence is fueling the fire not dampening it. 

The snowflake commentary is overdone on both sides, particularly as it relates to the other board.  While I was not privy to the conversation that lead up to the decision to create a separate place to dialogue, the singular reality is that like-minded folks wanted a place unencumbered by some of the partisan pushback from moderators here.  As you all know all too well, there was not one 'snowflake' poster that did not push back when targeted.  Imo, all that really happened is that we had a place where lots of folks with different perspectives were swinging haymakers at each other here, and now most of you don't recognize the sound of your own voice when it comes back around at you.

 

I've always said I like to listen to the other side, it helps in real world discussions to know how the other side thinks, in particular the areas they don't want to get into.  It's been incredibly helpful to me as I discuss far left ideology with a friend or associate to have an idea how deep the water is in the crazy pond.

 

I have especially enjoyed reading the post discussing the status of the R v D party moving forward.  That's very telling. 

 

 

[shoshin]

46 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The snowflake commentary is overdone on both sides, particularly as it relates to the other board.  While I was not privy to the conversation that lead up to the decision to create a separate place to dialogue, the singular reality is that like-minded folks wanted a place unencumbered by some of the partisan pushback from moderators here.  As you all know all too well, there was not one 'snowflake' poster that did not push back when targeted.  Imo, all that really happened is that we had a place where lots of folks with different perspectives were swinging haymakers at each other here, and now most of you don't recognize the sound of your own voice when it comes back around at you.

 

I've always said I like to listen to the other side, it helps in real world discussions to know how the other side thinks, in particular the areas they don't want to get into.  It's been incredibly helpful to me as I discuss far left ideology with a friend or associate to have an idea how deep the water is in the crazy pond.

 

I have especially enjoyed reading the post discussing the status of the R v D party moving forward.  That's very telling. 

 

 

 

That is a fair take--by you. 

 

But building an echo chamber and retreating to it is weak sauce. SDS banned one guy for his behavior, not his politics. At the same time, he suspended a bunch of left trolls and banned some dupe left troll accounts. In explaining his position, he noted that he never intervened here despite his disagreement with much of the conspiracy junk. Saying that backfired on him (egads--he's human and had an opinion). 

 

I know a bunch of the other echo chamber people thought Hapless was heavy-handed in the OT Covid thread. I agree, but she and I disagreed about Covid projections in that thread (I thought there would be no big spike this fall, she thought I was nuts, erm, "Thank you Ma'am may I have another?" SMACK) but we always kept things civil. 

 

Your line about "haymakers" and also "snowflakes" is right on. I withdraw the snowflakes insult, with prejudice that I should stop using it as it's pejorative and unhelpful. 

 

BTW, I was looking at a Fins message board and they had a pinned note from September about shutting down their politics board because it created too much division. Here's that post. I know the other site refugees hated me for saying it, but that was my point. 

 

Dear members,

We would like to address the recent change to the terms of service in regards to politics on Finheaven.

Due to the Political and War Forum causing rifts among our membership we have decided shut down the PoFo and we are no longer allowing political content on the site. This is now included in the Terms of Service.

This means you are not allowed to post politcal comments, opinions or pictures on the site at all. If you do post any politcal content on the site you will receive a PM reminding you that this type of content is not allowed and your content will be deleted. If you continue to post politcal content after the initial warning it will result in receiving infraction points that could lead to being banned from the site.

So let's keep the site focused on Dolphins football and the other forums focused on their topics. We have forums for college sports, other sports and the off topic stuff in the Lounge if you feel like you need a break from talking about the Dolphins.

Thank you,
-Finheaven staff-

 

Can you answer why they hid their politics board at the new place? I am not obsessed but I am curious why our old comrades would do that. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by shoshin

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

29 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

That is a fair take--by you. 

 

But building an echo chamber and retreating to it is weak sauce. SDS banned one guy for his behavior, not his politics. At the same time, he suspended a bunch of left trolls and banned some dupe left troll accounts. In explaining his position, he noted that he never intervened here despite his disagreement with much of the conspiracy junk. Saying that backfired on him (egads--he's human and had an opinion). 

 

I know a bunch of the other echo chamber people thought Hapless was heavy-handed in the OT Covid thread. I agree, but she and I disagreed about Covid projections in that thread (I thought there would be no big spike this fall, she thought I was nuts, erm, "Thank you Ma'am may I have another?" SMACK) but we always kept things civil. 

 

Your line about "haymakers" and also "snowflakes" is right on. I withdraw the snowflakes insult, with prejudice that I should stop using it as it's pejorative and unhelpful. 

 

BTW, I was looking at a Fins message board and they had a pinned note from September about shutting down their politics board because it created too much division. Here's that post. I know the other site refugees hated me for saying it, but that was my point. 

 

Dear members,

We would like to address the recent change to the terms of service in regards to politics on Finheaven.

Due to the Political and War Forum causing rifts among our membership we have decided shut down the PoFo and we are no longer allowing political content on the site. This is now included in the Terms of Service.

This means you are not allowed to post politcal comments, opinions or pictures on the site at all. If you do post any politcal content on the site you will receive a PM reminding you that this type of content is not allowed and your content will be deleted. If you continue to post politcal content after the initial warning it will result in receiving infraction points that could lead to being banned from the site.

So let's keep the site focused on Dolphins football and the other forums focused on their topics. We have forums for college sports, other sports and the off topic stuff in the Lounge if you feel like you need a break from talking about the Dolphins.

Thank you,
-Finheaven staff-

 

Can you answer why they hid their politics board at the new place? I am not obsessed but I am curious why our old comrades would do that. 

I didn’t take the snowflakes comment personally, so no need to withdraw on my account. When someone attacks me, I have choices...ignore/swing back/mock.  I like to mock—that’s my default, but in the end who really cares?  
 

The concerns expressed went beyond one poster being banned.  The concerns went beyond the PPP forum, and those concerns are specific to the posters who chose to leave.  
 

No one is going to check the archives for old Len’s thoughts on banning specifically for political commentary, but my experience was that I never had any push back from a mod for what I wrote, and I shared that.  The only issue I had was a warning point for a random Kiko Alonzo post way back when, and I still laugh at what prompted me to get it. With all the #%^# tossed back and forth on all parts of the board, it was silly as $&$.  Things like that happen. 
 

Anyway, I’d suggest you are wrong about weak sauce, again, there are no shy posters there.  In the end, those who chose to leave left for a better experience.  They were wearing Nike, decided on Adidas and that’s it.  Personally, I think it’s a better experience but like most, I tend to gravitate to people with similar points of view.  
 

I don’t follow you on the hidden politics board over there. I saw another poster indicated something similar and I was going to call @bull#### on that. No one will argue if I suggest I’m the dumbest bunny on the site, and I found the political forum in 3.7 seconds. 
 

 

[shoshin]

17 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I don’t follow you on the hidden politics board over there. I saw another poster indicated something similar and I was going to call @bull#### on that. No one will argue if I suggest I’m the dumbest bunny on the site, and I found the political forum in 3.7 seconds. 
 

 

Maybe it's just hidden if you don't have an account. It used to be visible. They probably didn't want the word getting out that it's a politics site with a football board too. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Maybe it's just hidden if you don't have an account. It used to be visible. They probably didn't want the word getting out that it's a politics site with a football board too. 

This was your chance to reassure me I’m not the dumbest bunny on the board. Your silence is deafening. 🤔

 

I can’t speak to that, but the other poster mentioned has an account near as I can tell.  At least, his name here pops up there when the trusty @ is included. 

[shoshin]

This shows that the Republican party is more ideologically diverse, which doesn't surprise me. It is overall a bigger tent. That also makes it more likely to fracture. I am ardently anti-Trump and the religious right, but still identify with the principles of classical liberalism (small government, less intrusion) that may exist somewhere in the party, hard as it is to find these days. 

 

 

 

I am in the lower right quadrant, apparently the least populated one. 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by shoshin

[Big Blitz]

Axios: Breitbart News Readers, Trump’s Small-Dollar Donors Steer ‘Modern’ GOP as Corporate Class Fades

 

 

The “modern Republican” Party is scrapping its old-guard corporate ties and business special interests, an Axios report details, as Breitbart News and small-dollar donors to former President Trump steer the party’s future.

 

Fourteen of the top GOP consultants and operatives detail how the Republican Party has shifted away from the Chamber of Commerce, the Koch brothers’ network of donor class organizations, National Review, and economic libertarian groups toward Trump’s small-dollar donors, populist-nationalist outlets like Breitbart News, and Tucker Carlson.

 

These days, it is Trump’s voters, Breitbart News readers, and Carlson viewers that Republicans hope to win over in elections rather than seeking out corporate campaign contributions through endorsements from the Heritage Foundation, FreedomWorks, and the Senate Conservatives Fund.

 

“You don’t want Breitbart on your ass,” a GOP operative told Axios.

 

J.D. Vance, the New York Times best-selling author now running for Senate in Ohio, said the party’s shift comes as beltway conservative orthodoxy has been busted through by the likes of Trump, Breitbart News, and Carlson.

 

“We all owe Donald Trump a great deal for singlehandedly destroying the corrupt globalist and corporatist orthodoxies that previously defined the Republican Party, in favor of a new Republican Party, that is pro-worker and always puts America first,” Vance told Breitbart News.

 

That shift seeks to increasingly align Republican lawmakers and those running for office with the nation’s largest voting bloc: economic populists who are socially conservative.

 

The Republican Party’s connections to the Chamber, while financially still tied, have faded dramatically in recent election years.

 

“If the U.S. Chamber of Commerce calls you and says ‘We want to endorse,’ You’re like, ‘Please don’t,'” a high-profile GOP political consultant told Axios. Most recently, the Chamber urged President Joe Biden and Congress to double legal immigration levels and provide amnesty to the nation’s 11 to 22 million illegal aliens.

 

Whereas Republicans once vied for campaign cash from the Kochs, major backers of mass immigration and job-killing free trade, candidates try to steer clear of the network while running against open borders and in support of industrial policy to reshore America’s manufacturing base.

 

“… none of the operatives we interviewed considered Koch support to be important in 2022,” the Axios report notes.

 

For the 2022 midterms, nearly 100 Republican lawmakers have accepted donations from the Koch Industries PAC, including Reps. Liz Cheney (R-WY), Jeff Duncan (R-SC), Don Bacon (R-NE), Tony Gonzalez (R-TX), Adam Kinzinger (R-IL), Ashley Hinson (R-IA), Julia Letlow (R-LA), Jackie Walorski (R-IN), Garret Graves (R-LA), Jim Banks (R-IN), Byron Donalds (R-FL), Yvette Herrell (R-NM), and Jim Jordan (R-OH), among others.

 

A new wave of Republicans, though, are fiercely breaking all ties with the old guard.

 

Andrew McCarthy, running in New York’s 24th congressional district, told Breitbart News that he, Joe Kent, running in Washington’s 3rd congressional district, and Anthony Sabatini, running in Florida’s 7th congressional district, are just a handful of some of the new blood campaigning to offer voters an “America First approach to policy” with teeth.

 

“You’re getting policy that is untainted and untouched by these beltway, second-tier groups,” McCarthy said. The shift, he said, can be seen in endorsements that long-established groups like the Club for Growth have recently made....

Edited February 6, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Big Blitz]

Btw the OP's prognostication couldn't have been more spot on....

[Big Blitz]

On 11/20/2020 at 3:10 AM, Big Blitz said:

Realignment has happened and it culminated in the s..t show that is 2020.  

 

The GOP needs to embrace the following in a "rebrand."

 

Classical liberals. in the truist sense of the meaning.  Think Thomas Jefferson.  Not Josef Stalin.  We forward think.  Enough of the Big Lie of the last 20 years that the Dems are the forward thinkers.  A New Center Right coalition must reach out to everyone turned off by what they're seeing on that ....other team.  

 

The realignment that has happened which the "left" doesn't understand or realize has happened to them, "Liberals" that came of age from 1970 to 2000 have not been liberals working for the working man.  They have morphed into big government statists seeking power and control that want you to think they represent you.  By you know, making you dependent on them.  That isn't forward thinking.  That isn't thinking at all.  And it might be the biggest lie believed by far too many in America.  Why would you want people happy and successful when your base relies on poverty and misery? 

 

The Democrats today are supporting suppression of free thought by simply remaining complicit as Silicon Valley decides the thought.  All working for Democrats of course so great deal for them.  But they have deliberately gone silent on the culture wars in which one side (their base) works night and day to cancel someone.  Anyone right of center.  

 

But that spectrum has "realigned" and doesn't exist because there is no left.  If there are any true liberals, they would call this out.  But they don't.  See fascists don't see themselves as being on the ideological spectrum.  They thought they were above it and their ideas were superior to everyone else.  Whatever got them to achieve their ends.  And you remained loyal to the State.  Does that sound anything like the people the Ds are calling fascists?   

 

The Democrats in America are so quick to want to call Trump and Republicans the fascists but why?  Who has been oppressed and silenced by the right?  Who has lost a job because they support Biden?  Which side feels like it can't even say anything?   Who is out there calling for lists of Trump voters to be scorned and not get a lick of media coverage not named Breitbart to call it out?  One of them with a blue check mark and has an actual job as a jOuRnAliSt actually asked if Trump voters need re education camps.  Obama sucked as president.  By I never once thought of his voters the way the left does Trump voters.  All 74 million of us and however many more are on flash drives somewhere.  

 

 

The New Right, that's what we are, its a hybrid of populism and classical liberalism.  Yes it can be both.  A big tent center right coalition.  And it needs proper spokesmen.  Their side would say spokesperson.  Yea we're done with 1984.  So the right can do this because its sound, and because the left has gone off the reservation.  In their 1984 universe that word is probably offensive and triggering.    

 

DC has a role.  But it needs to be limited.  The playing field in America is an equal one so long as you adhere to a few simple principles.  The most important being a respect for individual and minority rights.  That the country and all it's people are generally good and want to get along but the impediment to that is the Establishment media, and this new fascist new left.  

 

The Statists (big government control) vs the New Center Right (classical liberals).  That's the realignment.  Its official.  GOP needs to find a way to make that work.  Conservative values are obviously still a hallmark.  But it's not how you run in 2020 and beyond by saying "I'm a true conservative."  Appeal to the working man.  Have ideas that resonate.  And yes, you are going to have to do a few things that will absolutely get the sane moderate on board.  You're going to have to increase taxes on the wealthy.  And you are going to have to support renewables.  AND fossil fuels.  I'm sorry but I'm failing to see why unwavering support for fossil fuels is conservative.  Who cares?   Explain that transitions that won't devastate our economy are taking place where we can.  The Energy industry is doing a lot of this on it's own.  When they ask you if you believe in global warming you have to say yes, but that doesn't mean we just drop fossil fuels and end CO2 emissions because we can't.  As part of all infrastructure projects going green should not be a controversial decision so long as the costs to the working man aren't costs but savings.  The ship has sailed.  Just embrace it with small government principles.  Not crony capitalism.  

 

We are still a party that supports life but if you arent all aboard we won't not vote for you.  We've done it all the time.  The other side?  Yea there are zero pro life Democrats.  Let that sink in.  And we absolutely need to be a legit border hawk party.  Asylum does not include "I want to come to America bc my life is hard in Mexico."  That doesn't meet the criteria by law of asylum the media wont tell you about.  Come in. Legally.  Speak and learn English and assimilate.  That doesn't mean abandon your heritage.  It means embrace Western Civilization while you're at it or no, you aren't welcome here.  You came here to be an American not to live in America.  And the reason you need years before citizenship and the right to vote is because you may not be familiar with the West and what we are heirs to.  Assimilate.  

 

Appeal to the people that feel the Democrat Party has abandoned the Constitution in exchange for power to be just like China.  That resonates.  And yep, run as many minorities and women that understand this message and can articulate it all.  The voter likes to see diversity but our people will actually be intelligent forward thinkers, not just there to find ways to use government to screw up everything it touches and certainly not ignore the concerns of and writing off of half the country.

 

 

Thanks for reading.  Either flame away.  Ignore.  Run with it.  I don't care.  What I do care about is this country and my kids and yours futures.  And the dynamic of half the country spending all day trying to figure out how to dunk on the other half.  That a nasty anti American sentiment has permeated I'd say at least 30% of Democrats.  Its absolutely fascist.  That has to end by being beaten locally and statewide coast to coast.  

 

4 years later……..

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

37 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

4 years later……..

 

 

 

You are correct that there is a fundamental realignment going on, and we are now seeing the third presidential election cycle of it.

But your prescription was sadly wrong. You called for the Republicans to be the party of classical liberalism. There was a chance that could've happened at some point - any point - between 2008 and 2020. There were strong libertarians (small "l") in the Republican Party. Rand Paul (kook in some ways, but definitely a strong libertarian). Spencer Abraham. A few others long since forgotten.

But that movement was killed by one man: Donald J. Trump.

Free trade is a core tenet of classical liberalism; he is President Tariff.

An expansive immigration policy is a core tenet too; he is President Deportation.

That's just the start of it. Policy wise there is little that could be considered classical liberalism. And his governing style is a slap in the face of the rule of law.

Right diagnosis; wrong prescription.

[Big Blitz]

11 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

You are correct that there is a fundamental realignment going on, and we are now seeing the third presidential election cycle of it.

But your prescription was sadly wrong. You called for the Republicans to be the party of classical liberalism. There was a chance that could've happened at some point - any point - between 2008 and 2020. There were strong libertarians (small "l") in the Republican Party. Rand Paul (kook in some ways, but definitely a strong libertarian). Spencer Abraham. A few others long since forgotten.

But that movement was killed by one man: Donald J. Trump.

Free trade is a core tenet of classical liberalism; he is President Tariff.

An expansive immigration policy is a core tenet too; he is President Deportation.

That's just the start of it. Policy wise there is little that could be considered classical liberalism. And his governing style is a slap in the face of the rule of law.

Right diagnosis; wrong prescription.

 

But I said it’s a “hybrid” of classical liberalism and protectionism - not a 100 percent either way.  
 

My point is was what should be under the tent.  Who on the spectrum belongs with Republicans in 2024.   

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

But I said it’s a “hybrid” of classical liberalism and protectionism

You said a hybrid of populism and classical liberalism. I'm not seeing how that works, but I guess you may be able to convince me.

 

A hybrid of classical liberalism and protectionism is, on the other hand, a contradiction in terms. Kind of like authoritarian anarchist.