Chris Simms Top 10 Qbs

[DCbillsfan]

9 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

#5! Simms loves his “ Boy Blue”. 
 

Starts at the 11:40 mark and he once again absolutely SLAYS the people still pushing the inaccuracy narrative. He also, without mentioning names, killed Aikman for his slanted take on Allen earlier in the year. Loved it. 

I used to like Aikman as an analyst but now he's sounding like a clown.  He did the Colts Titans game last Thursday night.  Within a few a plays, he starts by saying how smart Rivers is in seeing the entire field and understanding the defensive coverage to finishing with Rivers is hesitant.  While all along it should have been the receiver is open and let it rip!  He really hates Buffalo and has little or no respect for us.

[Billsfan1972]

I only listened to the Allen part and it was very fair.

 

As for Murray, outside the Hail Mary, I thought his best quality is his elusiveness.  Thought his passing was so so at best.

 

My concern(minor) with Allen is that he does seem a little hesitant of late and not as freewheeling as before.

[BigPappy]

6 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Kyler is pretty good. Don't think he's as good as Allen but to each their own. 

I agree... he's good. Maybe even slightly above average. But, unlike JA I don't see Murray as someone that can become a complete pocket passer. To me Murray is Lamar Jackson 2.0, who was a Michael Vick 2.0; Murray is just a bit smaller. Once they figure him out, he will regress like Lamar has. Don't get me wrong, Lamar still plays at a high level but teams are understanding his game more and are able to defend him better and they will with Murray too. If you look at Jacksons stats, he has 7 less touchdowns to only 2 less picks than Josh. (JA 21 TDs to 7 INT's and Jackson has 14 TD's to 5 INT's) Not to mention Jackson also only has 3 rushing TD's to Josh's 5. 

 
Josh on the other hand can be and is a complete pocket passer. He has pocket presence and awareness; sheds tackles and also has the escape-ability when needed to extend plays. I don't see Lamar or Kyler being able to become that prototypical "pocket" passer and personally, I think because of their size (more so with Kyler than Lamar) I don't think they have the durability to last beyond 5 maybe 6 years in the NFL.

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I only listened to the Allen part and it was very fair.

 

As for Murray, outside the Hail Mary, I thought his best quality is his elusiveness.  Thought his passing was so so at best.

 

My concern(minor) with Allen is that he does seem a little hesitant of late and not as freewheeling as before.

I don't think he's hesitant at all. I think he's trying to focus on his reads and getting the ball down field and trying to run it himself on only the designed plays for him to do that.

[SoCal Deek]

It’s interesting but I really don’t ever think about Josh’s accuracy anymore. What I’ve noticed instead is his lack of mental, not physical, discipline. He seems to forget down and distance sometimes and in the heat of the moment make some really odd decisions. With that said, I think he’ll fix that with experience. He looks way more in control of the offense before the ball is snapped. 

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

 

I don't think he's hesitant at all. I think he's trying to focus on his reads and getting the ball down field and trying to run it himself on only the designed plays for him to do that.

Fair, but as I've stated also, we see less long balls and completions there.

 

Just a minor quibble, that I'm watching.

[Vontel]

21 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

I agree... he's good. Maybe even slightly above average. But, unlike JA I don't see Murray as someone that can become a complete pocket passer. To me Murray is Lamar Jackson 2.0, who was a Michael Vick 2.0; Murray is just a bit smaller. Once they figure him out, he will regress like Lamar has. Don't get me wrong, Lamar still plays at a high level but teams are understanding his game more and are able to defend him better and they will with Murray too. If you look at Jacksons stats, he has 7 less touchdowns to only 2 less picks than Josh. (JA 21 TDs to 7 INT's and Jackson has 14 TD's to 5 INT's) Not to mention Jackson also only has 3 rushing TD's to Josh's 5. 

 
Josh on the other hand can be and is a complete pocket passer. He has pocket presence and awareness; sheds tackles and also has the escape-ability when needed to extend plays. I don't see Lamar or Kyler being able to become that prototypical "pocket" passer and personally, I think because of their size (more so with Kyler than Lamar) I don't think they have the durability to last beyond 5 maybe 6 years in the NFL.

I don't think he's hesitant at all. I think he's trying to focus on his reads and getting the ball down field and trying to run it himself on only the designed plays for him to do that.

If you have watched Murray outside of last weeks game, you would realize he is the best QB at avoiding hits. His frame actually helps him considering he knows not to run through defenders like Josh, Cam, Wentz, Watson, Lamar, Dak, etc. He’ll be in the league for a very long time.

[Stank_Nasty]

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s interesting but I really don’t ever think about Josh’s accuracy anymore. What I’ve noticed instead is his lack of mental, not physical, discipline. He seems to forget down and distance sometimes and in the heat of the moment make some really odd decisions. With that said, I think he’ll fix that with experience. He looks way more in control of the offense before the ball is snapped. 

100%. Its definitely the decisions at this point. Like Simms says, the accuracy thing is dead now. It's done.

[klos63]

5 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Josh could have UNQUESTIONABLY the best all time performance with only one INT in a superbowl win and the critics would still say, 'yeah, hes not accurate, that one interception was just as bad as any INT ive seen.' When it was caused by a bounce off a wide receivers chest.

I don't think so.

[BigPappy]

3 minutes ago, Vontel said:

If you have watched Murray outside of last weeks game, you would realize he is the best QB at avoiding hits. His frame actually helps him considering he knows not to run through defenders like Josh, Cam, Wentz, Watson, Lamar, Dak, etc. He’ll be in the league for a very long time.

Understood, but it's football, he's going to get hit and sometimes he's going to get hit hard. You can't always avoid hits.

Edited November 19, 2020 by BigPappy

[Vontel]

Just now, BigPappy said:

Understood, butIt's football, he's going to get hit and sometimes he's going to get hit hard. You can't always avoid hits.

You can avoid it a lot less than your counterparts.

[klos63]

18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s interesting but I really don’t ever think about Josh’s accuracy anymore. What I’ve noticed instead is his lack of mental, not physical, discipline. He seems to forget down and distance sometimes and in the heat of the moment make some really odd decisions. With that said, I think he’ll fix that with experience. He looks way more in control of the offense before the ball is snapped. 

He forgets down and distance?  I can't ever remember even remotely thinking that during a game.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, BigPappy said:

Understood, butIt's football, he's going to get hit and sometimes he's going to get hit hard. You can't always avoid hits.

100% disagree with the Jackson comparison when it comes to murray. Murray is a much better thrower of the football. He'll have a career in the pocket by the time his legs give out.

[BigPappy]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

100% disagree with the Jackson comparison when it comes to murray. Murray is a much better thrower of the football. He'll have a career in the pocket by the time his legs give out.

Well.... If I'm wrong I'll admit it. Only time will tell. 🤷‍♂️

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, BigPappy said:

Well.... If I'm wrong I'll admit it. Only time will tell. 🤷‍♂️

again i disagree. if you watched him over the last 2 seasons its evident. 

[BigPappy]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

again i disagree. if you watched him over the last 2 seasons its evident. 

You said he'll have a career in the pocket before his legs gave out in response to my comment that i don't think he will become a prototypical pocket passer. You said career.... last time I checked 2 years in the league does not make for a career. So yeah.... only time will tell. 

[CincyBillsFan]

40 minutes ago, klos63 said:

He forgets down and distance?  I can't ever remember even remotely thinking that during a game.

 

A great example of his down & distance awareness is that once he takes off running it matters what down it is whether he slides or tries to run through tacklers.  On 1st or 2nd down Allen has gotten pretty good at sliding or running out of bounds short of the sticks. On 3rd down he almost always tries to get past the sticks when he takes off running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Murray looks like a nice QB. Allen looks like one of the best in the league, there’s no comparison imo. He’s ahead of Murray in YPA, more TDs w fewer INTs, more attempts, better ANY/A, everything really. I don’t see the Murray hype

604 rushing yards, 5.9 ypc, 10 rushing TDs, and a low sack rate of 4 percent (Allen's is over 5 percent). Murray's electric running ability is a game changer, as the Bills found out. His passing is good too. Bottom line: to qualify as a great qb, you can't simply be just a thrower in the NFL anymore unless you're Brees/Brady (i.e., qbs who have seen everything). 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

604 rushing yards, 5.9 ypc, 10 rushing TDs, and a low sack rate of 4 percent (Allen's is over 5 percent). Murray's electric running ability is a game changer, as the Bills found out. His passing is good too. Bottom line: to qualify as a great qb, you can't simply be just a thrower in the NFL anymore unless you're Brees/Brady (i.e., qbs who have seen everything). 

Aaron Rodgers and his 65 rushing yards might disagree

 

sack rate😂😂

[Thurman#1]

Without having seen this video, but having watched a ton of Simms every week, he's really really oversensitive on criticism of Allen.

 

There is very little left.

 

When people mention Josh's inaccuracy these days, they're mostly just putting things in a historical context, like, "he used to have accuracy problems, but now ..." There are one or two guys left, what's that guy's name, Bomani something? He's about it at this point, though I could've missed someone.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Aaron Rodgers and his 65 rushing yards might disagree

 

sack rate😂😂

? - What I meant is that older qbs who have been elite for a while and can quickly diagnose every defense thrown at them don't have to rely on mobility like virtually every other qb in the league. Lack of mobility is a key reason why Josh Rosen is a failure.  I'm sorry I didn't mention Rodgers, but I certainly include him in that group along with Roethlisberger and to a lesser extent Rivers (whose extreme lack of mobility will kill him in the end, as it always does). 

 

As for sack rate, please explain your mocking laughs. It's a really important stat that tells you a lot about a QBs ability to quickly diagnose plays and avoid drive killing sacks. Carson Wentz's slow recognition this season and his constant inability to get rid of it quickly has led to a 9.3 percent sack rate. It is killing the Eagles this season. Also, I didn't think this needed to be relitigated because it's so obvious, but the reason that Flutie was so much more effective than Rob Johnson is that both played behind the same line, but while Flutie had a low sack rate, Johnson accumulated the highest sack rate in NFL history. Sacks kill drives--plain and simple.   

Edited November 19, 2020 by dave mcbride