Anyone else concerned with run game being the “top priority”?

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, Putin said:

We will run until we puke 

Good Times  

[blacklabel]

Not really concerned, I think they just want a better balance on offense. And aside from the Niners game, they play their remaining schedule at home, Denver, and New England. So they might be thinking with the weather they can't throw it as much as they have been so they need the run game to be better because they're likely planning to lean on it a little more. 

[Augie]

We need a balanced attack to be truly dangerous, and that means we need to be able to run the ball better. YES, work on improving the run! I’m hoping we come back 100% healthy after the bye and don’t have to play the rest of the season missing 40% of our OLine starters. That alone should give us SOME boost. 

[Jerome007]

I'm still baffled how great the OL pass protect, but they can't push the pile with any consistency, and every 3rd & 1 has to be a creative play.

 

But I don't mind if the RBs catch passes for sweeps that are not counted as run plays but we all know they are. I don't understand how so few coaches have copied Greg Roman's creative running plays. He was awesome at that with the Bills, and obviously still is with the Ravens.

 

The run D is problematic too, for sure. It seems the blitzes have worked, and Klein has suddenly been turned on! He was a liability all year but the last 2 games he's been superb.

 

 

Edit: I'll say this, Singletarry, Moss, even Yeldon, have all been awesome pass blockers. IDK if it's all them the coaches, or both, but it's been impressive.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Jerome007

[Bubba Gump]

13 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Good Times  

 

Now let's go get a ***** snack!!

[Nextmanup]

Hopefully they aren't as concerned about the "run game" as they say they are.

 

They have shown otherwise this season, for the first time in my memory.

 

That's a good thing.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

I would suspect that having a functioning run game is what they are actually trying to create, not switching to a run first offense, doing that would be beyond being Billsy, it would be the just plain stupid. 
 

At present the team has virtually no run game to intersperse into the overall game plan, which is a pass first concept. There is nothing to get up about with the need to be able to run the ball more effectively. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[billybrew1]

2 hours ago, BobBelcher said:

I am a bit concerned with reports that fixing the run game is supposedly our top priority during the bye week. 
 

While I definitely recognize the lack of production here, this is also the best offense we have had in years and it was at its best in the Seattle game, a game in which we practically neglected the run altogether. 
 

My concern is if we come out of the bye with too much of an emphasis on establishing the run game against the Chargers when we already have something that is working for us at a high level right now. 
 

Guess you could say I believe the offense has already established its identify and I would put more of an emphasis on making the pass game even more potent, perhaps work on where it has struggled at times against zone coverage and fixing the run game becomes a secondary priority. 
 

Having said that, I realize that - unfortunately - the weather will dictate the game plan to some extent and it will be important to be able to call on the run game as needed in the month of December, but again, my concern would be over-committing to establishing the run game to where it has a negative impact on our pass attack. 
 

There is something to be said about being on pace to have the least number of punts in team history and I am sure we would all like to keep it that way.  

Great teams historically are good at everything. There is a good reason for that.

 

I think the Bills are basically mimicking the chefs but ever failing to copy the original.  The chefs are good at everything.

For whatever reason, so far, just about all our players are playing below expectations. Josh, the triplets, are hitting it although JB is hurt and it looks like he isn't going to be able play thru it, they are hitting their marks, but just about everyone else, for the most part, are not playing up to perceived expectations. If, somehow, the bye-week is kind and McD gets everyone to buy in 100%, if Harrison Hillips can come in now and be a rock solid one-tech when needed, if the OL can gel andFord can play anywhere near his draft status, the same on the other side of the line with Ed Oliver, if he can start to burst through the line reminiscent of Kyle Williams when called upon, if Tremaine Edmunds can come close to his draft status as an MLB, If all these things come together at once (along with our punter playing way better, geez!) we stand a 50/50 shot of beating the chefs in KC or Pitts in Pitts....

We need to be balanced, we need to lean on everything. We need defenses to have to worry about everything....etc....

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Estro said:

Yes, I heard McDermott mention it in his last presser and my first thought was "uh oh".  

 

Anytime Singletary touches the ball it feels like a wasted play.  Moss has been a little better, but not by much.  Any thought that either of those guys needs more touches is not a good idea if the idea is maximizing our offensive output.

 

 

Should we hand off and get 4 yards this play..........or throw it and get 8?

 

Times have changed since the Roman offense where the Bills were getting almost as much per run play as they were per pass play.

 

What they need is some speed in the backfield to complement Moss and Singletary............kudos to the many people who were on this on draft day.

 

RB's are still a half dozen for a dime or so in personnel chips......but you gotta' have a speed option.......Beane was asleep at the wheel on that.

 

They probably should activate Yeldon and just activate one of Moss and Singletary each week.........they can work on improving their blocking but they need to be able to throw the ball to one of these backs........Singletary is obviously the guy they most trust and he is an awkward pass receiver........Yeldon isn't a great option at RB but he is smooth in the pass game.

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Like the great Hank Stram used to say, "to win it all, you gotta have it all!". The point being if your weaknesses are too weak, somebody will expose them. Maybe not playing the weak teams, but getting through the playoffs and Super Bowl it's essential. If good teams don't have to worry about anything but overloading against our passing attack we'll lose.

Edited November 18, 2020 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, teef said:

no.  improving the run game is a top priority for the offense, but i don't think they want it to be the centerpiece.  why draft backs 2 years in a row not to get more production?  that being said, i like the offense they run now.  

 

 

This.

 

Pretty sure they're not saying, "Pass guys, you take the 10 days off. I hear Barbados is nice."

Edited November 18, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Ramza86]

When they say they want to work on the run game as a priority...

 

It just means they want to get more out of the 10 times they run. 

 

If they wantto continue winning games Josh has to continue throwing and the defense needs to be able to force more stops.

[jkeerie]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

We need to be able to run the ball effectively when we attempt to. There has to be a balance. Josh can sling it 40 times for 300+ every week, but at some point our running game has to produce more than 2 yds per carry. If we get that going it will just open things up even more.  

I think it could also help in our 3rd quarter woes.

[Paup 1995MVP]

6 hours ago, billspro said:

It should be the top priority. They are not going to be a running team this year. I wouldn’t worry about that. The priority is improving the run game efficiency, they need to add at least 1ypc to their runs. If they do that this offence goes to the next level. Arizona being able to go all out against the pass cost us the game in Arizona. We just need the other team to respect our run game enough to keep the play action effective. 

Agree completely.  We could start by benching Brian Winters (who is lousy), and activating TJ Yeldon to head in that direction.  Not sure why he never gets a chance.  He was a 2nd round pick out of Alabama.  Singletary and Moss were 3rd round picks.  Yeldon is as good as Moss and better then Singletary.  The guy can run, has great hands and can pass protect.  Many teams go with more then two RB's.  I think it has been a big mistake to not include him in the offense on a regular basis.  

[WideNine]

Folks forget how this team and Allen struggled to move the ball downfield against the better defenses running 2-deep zones with good 4-man fronts.

 

Being effective running the football does not take away from your passing game it enhances it by pulling those deep safeties back into the box, helps cut down on the costly interceptions throwing into double coverage, and slows down the rush giving Allen more time in the pocket. It can also be a more strategic approach late in a game when our defense is struggling to stop an opposing team and we need our offense to maintain possession, grind out 1st downs, and run out the clock.

 

How many times have we seen our offense up several scores in a game, then start sputtering with 3 and out passing late in the game, taking little time off the clock, and the opposing team starts scoring at will against our D closing the gap? An effective rushing attack would certainly come in handy to curb those situations.

 

Sure we moved the ball passing against the Seahawks, but they have a historically bad defense - particularly their secondary and chose to play man and blitz a ton. We moved the ball against the Cards, but had costly turnovers throwing into coverage. Having a more balanced rushing attack will only benefit this team. You don't get points or wins from your offense just being "fun" to watch, they have to be more than one-dimensional to respond to different defensive looks, personnel, and game situations.

 

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’d like to see more throws to the backs as blitz beaters to act as extension of the running game to sustain drives. That’s something the k gun thrived on and both backs can beat guys in open field. 

i agree. To me, this is priority no. 1. Easy fixes to get teams to stop blitzing 7 guys right at Josh’s face. The counter move has been that WR screen, which Arizona did a good job of stopping the second and third times we tried it against them. So we need to develop some new, additional counter-moves. 

[machine gun kelly]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So look at it a different way.

 

Seattle was a team with a strong run defense and a weak pass defense.  It made a lot of sense to attack them with a passing game

 

Arizona, on the other hand, has a defense that is balanced against the run and the pass.

 

Any team, if you have a gap in your game, it represents a weakness the opponent can exploit.  They can focus on other things and dare you.  When we were not able to pass deep OR execute screen passes successfully last year, teams were able to pin their ears back and  come after us with Blitz 0.  When we've been able to either pass deep or execute a good screen, we force them out of that because they need to defend the whole field and they get the memo "if you do that we will pick you apart"

 

Look at Baltimore this year - the word is out that if they can contain Lamar and smother the middle of the field,  you can slow them down or even stifle them.  They've gone from being the #1, most explosive offense in the league on points last year, to being just OK at currently #12.

 

Because we couldn't run the ball at need, we allowed Arizona to focus on exotic coverage looks that were hard for Josh to sort out - and he had to sort them, because we couldn't run.  Forcing AZ to have to defend the run would make the passing game more effective and efficient.

 

That doesn't mean you run a lot or pass deep a lot or whatever.  It just means if it's not something the defense has to worry about, it allows them to smother other aspects of your game.

Hap, as always you nailed it. Bob, we might see a natural improvement with the team, because for the first time all year we might have the right combination on the line.  I think they held out Mitch because of the concussions, just didn’t say it.  With Dawkins, Ford, Morse, Feliciano, and Williams, we should have the right combination to open seams for Moss or Singletary.  Those two have been consistently hit behind the LOS.  Barry Sanders wouldn’t get a lot if yards when that happens.  Much too much is made out if their lack of speed.  Singletary was fine with speed last year.

 

If we as a team fix the run game the next two games, we are a complete offense.  I also see all of these CB’s getting healthy and off Covid restrictions to make a nice run on the defense.

[maryland-bills-fan]

 

I think people have missed some important points about the running game.  Some thoughts.....

 

FIRST:   The last few games, we have been down 3 starters on the offensive line. Morse playing center is out and Feliciano is the 2nd string center.  The guard Feliciano is not playing guard (he is playing center) so a second team player is there.  Ford is injuried and was starting to start at guard- he is out and a second team player is there.    3 second teamers does not work as well as 1st teamers.  That is going to hurt trying to run the ball.

 

SECOND:   (pardon my departure from my homer style).  We have two 3rd round draft picks as running backs.  By the time you get out of the second round, you will get RB's who have some missing parts-  not fast enough, no break away threat, lack of pass catching,,,, somewhere the toy has some problems.  There are gaps in the abilities and the defences will ignore those weaknesses and defend against the fewer good points and shut them down.  You gotta draft higher to have confidence to get difference makers.  Or you gotta take a lot of long shot picks and hope one day you will get lucky.

 

  In 2020, Moss was the 9th RB chosen AND the overall 86th player chosen.  8 NFL teams passed on Moss and chose a different running back. 

Edward-Helaire,,,,,,Swift,,,,,,Taylor,,,,,Akers,,,,,,Dobbins,,,,,,,,,Dillon,,,,,,,Gibson,,,,,,Vaugh,,,,,,, MOSS

 

Starting RB's  who were chose before him were Edwards-Helaire (1st RB, 32nd pick  Kansas City),,,, Swift (2nd RB, 35th pick Detriot)....and Taylor (3rd RB, 41st pick Colts) .                    Notice that rookie NFL starters are picked higher than 9th RB?     ( for completeness, also "starting rookie running backs" are 11th RB and 111th player drafted J.Kelly of the 2-7 Chargers   and  James Robinson UFA of the 1-8 Jaguars).  The 5 other guys drafted earlier than Moss are 2nd string players, not starters.

 

THIRD:  What do I think is lacking in Singeltary/Moss?

 

[1]    Break away speed and elusiveness.    Other teams do not have to worry about these guys breaking through the line of scrimmage and making somebody miss in the open field and then running away from linebackers and safeties to get chunk yardage.   They can nickel and dime a bit but not make field shifts.

 

[2]   Power through the line.       These guys are in the middle of the weight range. (204#).  They are not big enough to overpower linebackers (20-30# lighter) or tackles (50+ # lighter) and not really that much bigger than safeties (maybe 10-15# heavier).  they are not much faster either.   "Tweaners"

 

[3]  Wide receiving pass catching     I think a coming trend in the NFL is having a small very fast running back, who can hid, squeeze through a small hole and blow by the linebackers. BUT he can also line up on the outside where he has the speed of a go-route wide receiver and presents match up problems for the defences. They can NOT cover him with a 220# linebacker.    This either creates a single coverage on someone else ( or stretches zones) or forces the defence to go with an extra defensive back as their base defence.   The consequence is that for the running game,  you can scheme a O-lineman matching up blocking a safety, with an advantage.

 

 

My summary, is that we have 3 nice backup running backs, but do not have enough horsepower to do much better.  Maybe we could convince the NFL to give us another top 40 pick in 2021?

 

 

https://fftoday.com/stats/20_run_pass_ratios.html

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/R

B

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan

[babulator]

Time and clock management is such a huge part of games in the modern NFL and running and holding onto the ball is a large part or that. 

Simply put, running effectively is one of the best ways to close out games. We don't want to shift to a run heavy team, but when we run, we should be more effective.

 

[AmishRifle]

Play design and missed assignments are the reasons we can’t run the ball.  Dabs needs to simplify the running game play design and adopt more power concepts.  Some of his designs call for and rely on crazy reach blocks that are very difficult to execute.