Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think that is where I am Hap. I do think when McDermott talked yesterday what he meant about a football decision was be sensible, take your time and think about the final 7 games not just the one we played Sunday. However, that question absolutely looms large. I have felt since the middle of last season there was an argument that Feliciano is our best center and that he his pass protection issues show up less at center than when he plays at guard. But the guard situation is such that at this moment I think Morse at C and Feliciano at G is probably the best combo we have in those two spots.

 

Worth saying in all this McDermott and Beane come from a "center is king" culture in Carolina. It is a position that the guys they learned from have always really valued. It wouldn't be a complete shock if they keep the guy they think is the best center they have at center and if that is Feliciano could they even try Morse at guard?

 

Whatever they do I do think they need to try and settle on a 5. The chopping and changing inside is part of the run game struggle IMO. No cohesion or continuity in there.

 

Eh, kind of.  It doesn't help.

 

I think it has more to do with fundamentals of blocking technique.  I think the Bills really really wanted Josh Allen and the passing game to take a step, so that was the overwhelming focus of training camp and has been the overwhelming focus of most practice during the week. 

 

Except for the NE game, where magically, against a run D that was previously good, suddenly we could run.  Daboll let it out that on Friday that week we practiced 50 snaps and 2 were pass plays.  Feliciano said they had a couple practices that were like "training camp practices", focused on footwork and technique.

 

Lo and behold, the passing game has taken a step to the point where 274, 275, 296 yds is now "Josh Allen had a bad game", but our run game sucks.  Imma take a guess that if I were a fly on the practice field, I would see that an ordinary week's practice is very heavily pass-focused.

 

I think the Bills may need to "think outside the box" a little bit about their practice strategies.  Josh needs the snaps diagnosing defensive looks for the pass game.  The OL needs the snaps learning to work together and block smoothly and efficiently.  This is a defined problem.  Defined problems usually have definable solutions.

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW, in Daboll's presser he said "they've played a couple of games together and that's the direction we decided to go with for this game.  That doesn't mean anything for this week or the week after that".  He said it was a decision to maintain continuity on the OL: "just have some continuity going with those guys, they've done a good job, and we'll see where we go from that". 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Could it simply be that the Bills had to field 8 o-linemen to get to 48 (as opposed to 47), and that Morse is the eighth and last guy they have? It's not a good look for McDermott to come out and say "he is recovering from a concussion but we would have played him if we had to." That said, he could be an emergency substitution if need be even though the coaches wanted to hold him back. Think about how many went down vs. Seattle. The last thing you want is Dawson Knox playing left tackle or guard in the fourth quarter. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The last thing you want is Dawson Knox playing. left tackle or guard in the fourth quarter. 

 

This is pretty much where I am with him at this point.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I think that if he said that, it would lead to a lot more questions from the reporters.

 

Why? They know he has a concussion and a history of them. Say we want to get him healthy and the bye gives him more time. Who is gonna question that?

 

Saying what he said leads to more questions.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[Mat68]

I think this has more to do with Feliciano than Morse.  Mango brings a nastiness to the oline.  I believe he said right now center is easier to play than guard while still recovering from his pec injury.  Hopefully, after the bye he will be comfortable playing guard.  The best 4 are Dawkins, Williams, Feliciano and Morse.  Mango at guard improves the run game.  Creates more push and movement up front.

[TheFunPolice]

When it comes to concussions you've got to be very careful what you say and how you handle it. 

 

There's "healthy enough to play" and then there's "healthy."

 

Saying you are going to save a guy aside and let him heal up for the stretch run is a slap in the face to the guys who are out there banged up and trying to go. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I think this has more to do with Feliciano than Morse.  Mango brings a nastiness to the oline.  I believe he said right now center is easier to play than guard while still recovering from his pec injury.  Hopefully, after the bye he will be comfortable playing guard.  The best 4 are Dawkins, Williams, Feliciano and Morse.  Mango at guard improves the run game.  Creates more push and movement up front.

Really? The run game was terrible the last two games.

[cDAVIS]

17 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

When will people realize McDermott is an issue with this team?

When will people realize this team was ***** the last 25 years until McDermott? 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Eh, kind of.  It doesn't help.

 

I think it has more to do with fundamentals of blocking technique.  I think the Bills really really wanted Josh Allen and the passing game to take a step, so that was the overwhelming focus of training camp and has been the overwhelming focus of most practice during the week. 

 

Except for the NE game, where magically, against a run D that was previously good, suddenly we could run.  Daboll let it out that on Friday that week we practiced 50 snaps and 2 were pass plays.  Feliciano said they had a couple practices that were like "training camp practices", focused on footwork and technique.

 

Lo and behold, the passing game has taken a step to the point where 274, 275, 296 yds is now "Josh Allen had a bad game", but our run game sucks.  Imma take a guess that if I were a fly on the practice field, I would see that an ordinary week's practice is very heavily pass-focused.

 

I think the Bills may need to "think outside the box" a little bit about their practice strategies.  Josh needs the snaps diagnosing defensive looks for the pass game.  The OL needs the snaps learning to work together and block smoothly and efficiently.  This is a defined problem.  Defined problems usually have definable solutions.

 

The Patriots game run success was largely down to the way they defended IMO. They used a similar D we did against KC. They begged us to keep running it. I do suspect that practice is slanted towards throwing it and they want to be a pass first offense, no doubt.

 

On technique - agreed that is the major issue but the oline, almost more than anywhere else on the field is where the nuances of technique matter most.... and not just your own... but the nuances of the guy next to you. Cohesion does matter. I need to know not only what assignment the guy next to me is playing but also exactly how he plays it. Does he get out of his stance early, what angles does he tend to take... all those little things really add up on the online. I'm not suggesting that having the same 5 is the cure to all our ills in running the ball...… fundamentally the Bills have prioritised pass blockers (I'd say other than Feliciano, Ford and probably Boettger every other Olineman on the roster is a better pass blocker than run blocker) and have worked to refine their pass blocking. But it is a myriad of factors.... when you add some sloppy base technique to possible lack of emphasis in practice to constant changes in personnel (especially inside) to running backs who aren't real explosive hole hitters..... the whole thing just becomes a bit of a grind. And that is how it has felt. When an area struggles as bad as our run offense (and similar applied to our run defense) it is rarely just one thing.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why? They know he has a concussion and a history of them. Say we want to get him healthy and the bye gives him more time. Who is gonna question that?

 

Saying what he said leads to more questions.

 

Well it didn't lead to more reporters questions.

[Mat68]

25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Really? The run game was terrible the last two games.

When was Feliciano at guard?

[DCbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why not just say we want to make sure he’s fully healthy before putting him on the field? They’ve said it before and it would end all discussion. He seemed to go out of his way to say it wasn’t injury related.

 

I really wanted Morse when we signed him but after going back and watching all-22 from last year I would be fine with moving on from him and getting someone that’s more physical. He’s a solid pass blocker but meh in run game

Who knows what McD is thinking at these pressers.  Morse has been a disappointment for me as well.  Maybe they're moving on from him after the season.  He seems to get penalized a fair amount as well.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

When was Feliciano at guard?

I thought you were saying that Morse was benched because Feliciano brings more nastiness to the run game. I think I misinterpreted. The team is better with both out there. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He probably just wanted to see how certain players played heading into the bye week so they can come out of the bye with their best 5 on the field. Morse likely is at starting center coming out of the bye.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

For anyone who follows and understands o line play, was benching Morse justified based on his play?

 

To me it seemed like he was doing descent, but I’m not an o line expert by any means.

[Peter]

This is not good if Morse is not good enough to start.

 

Highest Paid Centers

[Mat68]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought you were saying that Morse was benched because Feliciano brings more nastiness to the run game. I think I misinterpreted. The team is better with both out there. 

Right.  I was saying, I believe the coaching staff likes the nastiness Felicano brings to the line.  Taking into account the NE game they want Feliciano on the feild.  With his pec injury, playing center is easier for him at the moment.  Morse I think didnt have a full week of practice so they went with Mango.  Now after the Bye the run game is improved by Feliciano at guard.  Him paired with Dawkins or Williams should create a solid a good combo to run behind.  Him playing Lg fits best with Allen rolling out right.  Bringing some balance to the offense will make it harder to defend.  

[Peca27]

McDermott carefully handled the question and was correct in his response.  Me thinks you can't admit to dressing a player with concussion issues that you think shouldn't / couldn't be out there physically, even if your intent is to provide the player with an extra week of rest / healing out of an abundance of caution.  I imagine the intent of the injury rules are to dress players that are physically able to play in the game without restriction, especially as it relates to concussions. 

 

McDermott was playing it both ways with Morse in my opinion (i.e. he was cleared medically and available, but would only be put into the game in an emergency as a method to give him another week of rest to get his brain right).  McDermott just couldn't admit that.      

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

For anyone who follows and understands o line play, was benching Morse justified based on his play?

 

To me it seemed like he was doing descent, but I’m not an o line expert by any means.

 

I don't think it had to do with Morse's play at all and McDermott was very specific saying that Morse was not "benched".

 

Morse had been out two weeks and only back for 3 practices.  I think they were hoping that some continuity built the last 2 weeks in games and practice would help them run on O-line this week.

 

Not sure it worked out as they wanted, but the line played well enough the last 2 weeks that I understand why the Bills would want to give that continuity thing a try.

 

33 minutes ago, Peter said:

This is not good if Morse is not good enough to start.

 

Highest Paid Centers

 

Morse is good enough to start.  He started the first 8 games for a 5-2 team that was right up at the top of the league in passing.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think it had to do with Morse's play at all and McDermott was very specific saying that Morse was not "benched".

 

Morse had been out two weeks and only back for 3 practices.  I think they were hoping that some continuity built the last 2 weeks in games and practice would help them run on O-line this week.

 

Not sure it worked out as they wanted, but the line played well enough the last 2 weeks that I understand why the Bills would want to give that continuity thing a try.

 

 

Morse is good enough to start.  He started the first 8 games for a 5-2 team that was right up at the top of the league in passing.

 

Agreed. Especially when the other side of the game was another fortnight that they could give to a guy who has a history of concussions to recover from this latest one.