Decline offsetting penalty during Cards game?

[Jobot]

I couldn't find the rule on the google engine... but couldn't we have declined the cardinal Offside portion of the offsetting penalty call yesterday? That way we would have just taken the 'already first down' with a 10-yard penalty to still make it a 1st in 10?

I swear I've seen Belichick do this before.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

ummm  off setting ...  both sides were wrong.  No play was made

 

there is nothing to "decline"  unless you wanted one ref or the other to rescind his complaint.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I mean the ref always says "by rule the penalties offset." I've never looked it up but that's what they say. So I'm guessing it's a rule that you can't. 

[qwksilver]

We need one of our social media experts to ask one of the Media refs (ala Dean Blandino or someone like him) 

[BuffalOhio]

We get the first down if Knox doesn't block in the back.  Liked him last year.  This year - not so much ...

 

Next play - interception.

[nucci]

somewhat related....how come when there are multiple penalties on one team only one can be accepted....if the defense holds and goes Offside, both should be applied.

[All_Pro_Bills]

This was the Knox call downfield?  He seems to generate at least one holding/illegal block call every game.  This penalty really hurt because it was unnecessary and inconsequential to the play.  It was a big chunk play that got called back.  He's has to start playing smarter and eliminate these drive killers.  

Edited November 16, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, Jobot said:

I couldn't find the rule on the google engine... but couldn't we have declined the cardinal Offside portion of the offsetting penalty call yesterday? That way we would have just taken the 'already first down' with a 10-yard penalty to still make it a 1st in 10?

I swear I've seen Belichick do this before.

 

Huh? Offsetting means the play never happened.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

This was the Knox call downfield?  He seems to generate at least one holding/illegal block call every game.  This penalty really hurt because it was unnecessary and inconsequential to the play.  It was a big chunk play that got called back.  He's has to start playing smarter and eliminate these drive killers.  

Well, he does have Lee Smith as a mentor. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

somewhat related....how come when there are multiple penalties on one team only one can be accepted....if the defense holds and goes Offside, both should be applied.

 

This is the one that really burns me, take the opposite;

 

The defense goes Offside so the O-line ends up holding or the QB is now under duress so he intentional grounds.  Could argue neither of those offensive penalties would have occurred if the defense wasn't Offside to start with.  But it's off-setting.

 

I'd argue enforce the first penalty but admittedly that is often hard to tell which one occurred first.

[Rochesterfan]

13 minutes ago, Jobot said:

I couldn't find the rule on the google engine... but couldn't we have declined the cardinal Offside portion of the offsetting penalty call yesterday? That way we would have just taken the 'already first down' with a 10-yard penalty to still make it a 1st in 10?

I swear I've seen Belichick do this before.

 

I don’t get what you think would have happened.  It would have been a 10 yard penalty from the spot of the foul so if we could have declined the penalty- the result would have been 2 and 20 rather than 2nd and 10. 
 

We would not have gotten the first down - nor the yardage that Singletary got because the questionable block occurred at the site of the catch.

 

We would have lost more yardage and not have gotten the first down - so the next play would have been worse.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

25 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I don’t get what you think would have happened.  It would have been a 10 yard penalty from the spot of the foul so if we could have declined the penalty- the result would have been 2 and 20 rather than 2nd and 10. 
 

We would not have gotten the first down - nor the yardage that Singletary got because the questionable block occurred at the site of the catch.

 

We would have lost more yardage and not have gotten the first down - so the next play would have been worse.

Not true. The block in the back occurred far downfield not at the LOS. It would have been ten yards from the spot of the foul.. So the OPs question is valid. If they could have declined the penalty and taken the result of the play and the penalty, they may have netted a few yards. They would have lost the down though too. 

I don't know if it is legal to decline offsetting penalties in that situation but it is an interesting question. 

[JoPoy88]

55 minutes ago, Jobot said:

I couldn't find the rule on the google engine... but couldn't we have declined the cardinal Offside portion of the offsetting penalty call yesterday? That way we would have just taken the 'already first down' with a 10-yard penalty to still make it a 1st in 10?

I swear I've seen Belichick do this before.

Not the way offsetting penalties work. But the Bills can and do decline a specific penalty on the opposing team when they commit more than one penalty on a single down, and just accept the most beneficial one (I believe this did happen once yesterday.)

[DrDawkinstein]

I was kinda confused on this too.

 

Defense jumps, it's a "free play". If Josh throws an INT there, they wipe it out like it never happened and it's Bills' ball, 2nd and 5.

 

So if the offside penalty is enforced, nothing that happened after it counts, and there should be no offsetting penalty.

Or if we decline the offside, then the block in the back counts, spot foul, 1st and 20.

 

Either way, I'm done with Knox. The meathead makes more negative plays than positive.

[MAJBobby]

I absolutely HATE offsetting penalties.  It is Stupid.

 

The False Start is a "free play"  All bad after should be able to be wiped away with the acceptance of the penalty, similar to a Pick.  Offsetting penalties are DUMB.

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

44 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

We get the first down if Knox doesn't block in the back.  Liked him last year.  This year - not so much ...

 

Next play - interception.

I'm glad you mentioned the interception on the very next play.   

 

There were two plays that annoyed me more than the Hail Mary.  And both were self-inflicted gunshots by the Bills.  I think the outcome of these two consecutive drives cost them the game.

1.  The 12 yards punt - this resulted in a 1st and 10 from the Bills 30 for Arz and they kicked a FG to make it 23-19.

2. The Knox penalty which negated a 21 yard gain to the ARZ 40.  Next play interception and the Cards go 56 yards for the go-ahead TD to make it 23-26.

 

Take those two screw-ups away is maybe its 23-16 end-of-Q3.  Hypothetically if the Bills go down and score absent that Knox penalty it could have been 30-16 end-of-Q3.  In any case these screw-ups shifted the momentum for about 14-15 minutes of the 2nd half. 

[MAJBobby]

Just Enforce the penalties as they come.  

 

Example a 10 yard hold can offset a 50 yard DPI.  That is freaking STUPID.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Jobot said:

I couldn't find the rule on the google engine... but couldn't we have declined the cardinal Offside portion of the offsetting penalty call yesterday? That way we would have just taken the 'already first down' with a 10-yard penalty to still make it a 1st in 10?

I swear I've seen Belichick do this before.

 

Someone else raised this yesterday in a thread, and it seems like a brilliant idea.

 

I don't know the rules, but this makes a lot of sense-- the refs can't enforce off-setting penalties if one is declined, I would think. 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

From what appears to be an official nfl website, at:

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/17_2013_Penalty_Enforcement.pdf

 

"Section 5 Fouls by Both Teams (Double Fouls)

 

Article 1:Double Foul Without Change of Possession. If there is a Double Foul (3-12-2-c) during a down in which there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred."

 

Personally, I think the rule should be changed to allow a team to decline a penalty in this situation, but  that  does not appear to  currently be an option.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BuffalOhio said:

We get the first down if Knox doesn't block in the back.  Liked him last year.  This year - not so much ...

 

Next play - interception.

 I really think that play was the turning point in the whole game. I'm so sick and tired of waiting for Dawson Knox to ever be good. Time to draft another te next year...