Bad coaching bringing this team down

[Simon]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

It would be interesting to see a team try it in a playoff game or super bowl just to push the rules boundary. 

 

That sort of strikes me as a bad time to experiment with a dubious strategy that has an infinitesimal chance of success. 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

In that situation you push and shove for position and you prevent that catch at any and all costs. A penalty there would have given them just one more play and how often do you see penalties on a hail Mary scrum. Bills were soft and didn't fight Hopkins nearly enough. Like I said you prevent that catch at any cost.

Can't argue with the push and shove cuz theyre likely getting away with it but I do think if a PI was called we would all be losing our minds talking about how awful of a penalty it was and that everyone should be fired etc. 🤣 

Just now, Simon said:

 

That sort of strikes me as a bad time to experiment with a dubious strategy that has an infinitesimal chance of success. 

 

It sure would be talked about forever though haha

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Simon said:

 

That sort of strikes me as a bad time to experiment with a dubious strategy that has an infinitesimal chance of success. 

 

In a hailmary attempt? Why not. Seems like the best chance to try it. Allen chucking it into the end zone and Knox and Davis launch Beasley up into the air for a game winning super bowl touchdown seems like a great way to win! 

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Can't argue with the push and shove cuz theyre likely getting away with it but I do think if a PI was called we would all be losing our minds talking about how awful of a penalty it was and that everyone should be fired etc. 🤣 

It sure would be talked about forever though haha

Then Goodell pissed off cause the Bills won on a technicality. 

[Turk71]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Can't argue with the push and shove cuz theyre likely getting away with it but I do think if a PI was called we would all be losing our minds talking about how awful of a penalty it was and that everyone should be fired etc. 🤣 

Not me, he should have been moved off his spot. There should have been contact and conflict to establish position. You would have to pull someone down or extend your arms pushing them to get a penalty in that situation. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Turk71 said:

Not me, he should have been moved off his spot. There should have been contact and conflict to establish position. You would have to pull someone down or extend your arms pushing them to get a penalty in that situation. 

Yea it does seem like we play a little on the safe side in general with trying to avoid penalties which is pretty ironic because we have no problem committing penalties 🤣 theyre probably not calling a PI on that play anyway

[Turk71]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea it does seem like we play a little on the safe side in general with trying to avoid penalties which is pretty ironic because we have no problem committing penalties 🤣 theyre probably not calling a PI on that play anyway

In any case you don't allow them to catch the game winning td in the final seconds. I would have pushed him out of there when I saw the ball coming to him and probably got away with it. Penalty or not that would be the right move. Allowing a catch was not an option.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Turk71 said:

In any case you don't allow them to catch the game winning td in the final seconds. I would have pushed him out of there when I saw the ball coming to him and probably got away with it. Penalty or not that would be the right move. Allowing a catch was not an option.

The throw did seem to catch everybody off guard i still can't believe it...it would be hard to place the ball there from 10 yards out in a clean pocket and he does that lol ridiculous 

[Turk71]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The throw did seem to catch everybody off guard i still can't believe it...it would be hard to place the ball there from 10 yards out in a clean pocket and he does that lol ridiculous 

It should not have caught anyone off guard and a tall receiver should have been in the end zone. If you're going to play a ridiculously soft prevent D at least do it right. 

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The throw did seem to catch everybody off guard i still can't believe it...it would be hard to place the ball there from 10 yards out in a clean pocket and he does that lol ridiculous 

Why were they caught off guard? What else did they have left but two desperation shots at the end zone?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

It should not have caught anyone off guard and a tall receiver should have been in the end zone. If you're going to play a ridiculously soft prevent D at least do it right. 

Why were they caught off guard? What else did they have left but two desperation shots at the end zone?

Oh yea they shouldn't have been for sure lol I meant once you see Kyler running hard to his left side they probably weren't making their best effort to disrupt Hopkins and risk a penalty as if they were badly out of position since they were not expecting an across his body 50 yard laserbeam ball that he could perfectly highpoint out of the air.  I didnt mean the playcall caught them off guard.   I guess theoretically as far as playcalling goes the cards couldve run a play to get about half along the sideline 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Turk71]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Oh yea they shouldn't have been for sure lol I meant once you see Kyler running hard to his left side they probably weren't making their best effort to disrupt Hopkins and risk a penalty as if they were badly out of position since they were not expecting an across his body 50 yard laserbeam ball that he could perfectly highpoint out of the air.  I didnt mean the playcall caught them off guard.   I guess theoretically as far as playcalling goes the cards couldve run a play to get about half along the sideline 

It was not a laser beam and Hopkins was surrounded by Bills as he waited for the ball, they could have fought him for position and made sure he didn't catch it, even if you take a penalty. They didn't and the Bills lost, bottom line.

[Turk71]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

But you just don't understand.

The QB wants to do it so bad that he'll automatically be better at it than an NFL caliber DB. 🙄

He is bigger.☺ I bet he would've stopped that catch at any cost which is what should've happened. Allen has 4 inches on Hopkins. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Turk71

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

He is bigger.☺ I bet he would've stopped that catch at any cost which is what should've happened.

QBs are the hungriest players on the field the majority of the time, He led us to the lead. He deserved the chance to stop the hailmary. You can keep all the other DBs on the field and pull one lineman. There is literally no risk in doing so other than injury, but Josh earned the right to defend the jump ball if he want to. 

[Turk71]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

QBs are the hungriest players on the field the majority of the time, He led us to the lead. He deserved the chance to stop the hailmary. You can keep all the other DBs on the field and pull one lineman. There is literally no risk in doing so other than injury, but Josh earned the right to defend the jump ball if he want to. 

When your just standing in the end zone waiting for a hail Mary do you want tall guys or quick little guys?

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

When your just standing in the end zone waiting for a hail Mary do you want tall guys or quick little guys?

Hands down tall guys. I mean obviously you want most of your starting DBs on the field still, which is why I would just pull a d lineman or 2 and just keep 1 defender camped in the end zone. I’m a firm believer in allowing an athletic QB a chance to play hero ball in hailmary situations. They earned the right in my opinion. 

[Simon]

He's got no experience turning his hips

He's got no experience tracking a ball

He's got no experience establishing position

He's got no experience timing a leap

And some of y'all think that he's going to magically fly through the air to outduel a HOF caliber receiver at the peak of his abilities.

 

It's so patently absurd that I can't believe it's being seriously discussed by otherwise seemingly rational human beings.

Since that is as diplomatically as I can put it, I'm stepping out so you gents can continue enjoying your alternative reality uninterrupted. 

 

[Turk71]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

He's got no experience turning his hips

He's got no experience tracking a ball

He's got no experience establishing position

He's got no experience timing a leap

And some of y'all think that he's going to magically fly through the air to outduel a HOF caliber receiver at the peak of his abilities.

 

It's so patently absurd that I can't believe it's being seriously discussed by otherwise seemingly rational human beings.

Since that is as diplomatically as I can put it, I'm stepping out so you gents can continue enjoying your alternative reality uninterrupted. 

 

I'm not advocating for Allen being there myself. Fact is, they were standing in a group waiting for a hail Mary, there was no turning of hips and you don't think that Josh Allen at 6'5" 240 could not establish position against 6'1" 210 Hopkins? Instead of Allen how about Gabe Davis at 6'2"? Do you think he knows how to track a ball? Bottom line is he should not have been allowed to catch that ball. Take the penalty if you have to, they are barely ever called in those situations. Nobody even pushed him. 

[Milanos Milano]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

He's got no experience turning his hips

He's got no experience tracking a ball

He's got no experience establishing position

He's got no experience timing a leap

And some of y'all think that he's going to magically fly through the air to outduel a HOF caliber receiver at the peak of his abilities.

 

It's so patently absurd that I can't believe it's being seriously discussed by otherwise seemingly rational human beings.

Since that is as diplomatically as I can put it, I'm stepping out so you gents can continue enjoying your alternative reality uninterrupted. 

 

It doesn’t matter, that wasn’t my point. My point was there is zero liability risk if Allen is on the field camping in the end zone if all the other DBs are there as well. We pull 1 lineman, big whoopdie do. An athletic tall QB deserves the chance to play hero ball on hailmarys and nothing else will change my mind. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by IronMaidenBills

[Do The Reich Thing]

McD really is going to die on the hill of being too conservative isn’t he? His philosophy is great in so many aspects, but damn I’ve seen this too many times with too many franchises. I.e. Dan Quinn most recently with the Falcons. McD is a Dan Quinn clone. Good, but just not good enough. 
 

My man... you have a 23-9 lead in the 3rd quarter, all the momentum, and you go into a complete shell which allows AZ to finally find their grove and eek out a victory. 
 

Watching this guy coach on game day is overwhelmingly underwhelming. Time and time again this team gets leads and they lose them or come close to losing them in the second half. Will he ever learn? Play aggressive with a big lead for ONCE and see how it works out. 
 

Coaches seem to live and die with their philosophies and are too stubborn to change anything. McD is going to lose his window with this team just like Quinn did with Atlanta if he doesn’t adapt. 

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, Cal said:

We have the talent and the player comradery you need. McDermott is just to soft and it shows with all the penalties not to mention makes bone head decisions. Good coaches put a tall player back there like Belichick did with Gronkowski to knock the ball down. Poyer, Tre, etc got as high as they could not their fault. Wasn't enough.

 

We should of put Davis or Knox back there. Frazier has the d at the bottom of the league and Dabbol with his college plays are not aggressive enough. Its unfortunate.

I believe the thought was it was not the last play.  Arizona could’ve thrown another pass to the sidelines to gain some more yards and only take a couple of seconds.  You wouldn’t put a non-defender in at that point.  Had that throw not been successful and 2 seconds remained , then Yes, you put some taller people back there.

[GunnerBill]

Bad coaching? Cos I saw coaching that had our best 3 defensive backs in position to make a play and all 3 failed to do so. Coaches coach. But ultimately players have to play.

1 hour ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

McD really is going to die on the hill of being too conservative isn’t he? His philosophy is great in so many aspects, but damn I’ve seen this too many times with too many franchises. I.e. Dan Quinn most recently with the Falcons. McD is a Dan Quinn clone. Good, but just not good enough. 
 

My man... you have a 23-9 lead in the 3rd quarter, all the momentum, and you go into a complete shell which allows AZ to finally find their grove and eek out a victory. 
 

Watching this guy coach on game day is overwhelmingly underwhelming. Time and time again this team gets leads and they lose them or come close to losing them in the second half. Will he ever learn? Play aggressive with a big lead for ONCE and see how it works out. 
 

Coaches seem to live and die with their philosophies and are too stubborn to change anything. McD is going to lose his window with this team just like Quinn did with Atlanta if he doesn’t adapt. 

 

In what way was McDermott conservative last night? Because to me it looked like they were doing the same thing they did all game. The difference was the Cardinals executed for a couple of drives and the Bills made big and I mean big mistakes. Penalties, interceptions, 12 yard punts.... that is hard to overcome. And they nearly did until yet another huge mistake costs them the game. 

 

The Bills didn't lose because of conservatism. They lost because of mistakes. They just made too many 2nd half to win a game on the road against a good football team.