Pete Carroll - Was he so stupid or just thought McD was????

[starrymessenger]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The point was McD did exactly what he should have against an historically bad pass defense.

 

Not doing that would have played into Seattle's hands and shown McD's coaching weaknesses.  

 

As said though I was very happy to see them do the right thing and hope to see it continue.

 

Where did I say that the Bills coaches failed to have a good gameplan on offence? The gameplan and doubtless the week's preparation (esp on D actually) was obviously excellent. And I very much doubt that Pete is unaware of the weakness in his secondary and of the opportunities that it presents to opposing offences. He actually had a plan for that. His plan was to pressure Allen and to some extent it actually worked. Hawks got the most sacks in a game for them in the last seven years. I mean would'nt you rather have Jamal Adams rush the passer than drop into coverage? I'll wait.

 But that wasn't enuf to make his gameplan successful and there is a reason for that too. The reason for that is despite the pressure Josh Allen was too good and had one of his best days ever. It's possible that Pete underestimated Allen but I could almost understand that because 1) the Bills offence in recent games had not been performing at that level and 2) this year Josh Allen's effectiveness tends to grow in leaps and bounds and when he takes a step back he is quite capable of following up with three steps forward. You can't always foresee that. On Sunday he was nothing short of elite. Pretty much in Mahomesland.

In his post game comments Pete mentioned his team's turnovers as an obvious deciding factor. Frankly I'm more interested in understanding how Sean and Frazier were able to pretty much stifle the Hawks offence, partly because I didn't expect that. As a Bills fan I know perfectly well what I can expect from Allen, his receivers and that O-line when they are firing on all cylinders. The rest of the league is learning but there is probably a lag in familiarity. That likely won't continue for long. 

You say you hope that Sean/Daboll  continue to do the right thing. So do I. Just bear in mind that doing the right thing does not always mean doing the same thing and one of the most encouraging things I see is that the Bills are developing an offence capable of implementing the gameplan that best addresses the strengths of the opposing D. If the trend continues they will be, week in and week out, one of the league's most dominant offences.

Pete Carroll ain't so dumb. He's a great coach who over the years has built one of the game's most successful franchises. Both he and Sean McD are good at what they do. Sometimes your plans work out according to your expectations and sometimes not. Stuff happens.

 

[ALLEN1QB]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I will say here, since no one else is: "stupid" is probably singularly poor description of a HC with 106-61 record in the last 11 years, winning seasons every year starting his 3rd year as HC, 7 playoff trips, 2 superbowl trips, and a superbowl win.

 

 

He would have 2 Superbowl wins if he wasn't so STUPID!

Edited November 14, 2020 by ALLEN1QB

[Simon]

I was talking to myself during that game marveling at how thoughtful the Seahawks were to implement a gameplan that was so conducive to the Bills success.

I haven't watched any replays but fwiw, in realtime I thought their approach to that matchup was inarguably stupid.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

He would have 2 Superbowl wins if he wasn't so STUPID!

 

That play is the SeaSnakes "Wide Right".  It should never have come down to that.  They had NE down by 10 points in the 4th Q

 

But since you bring it up:

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-pete-carroll-explains-ill-fated-call-in-super-bowl-xli-0ap3000000467707

"Carroll saw a front stacked against a power run and a matchup he felt he could exploit with a short route against a rookie corner who had zero career interceptions. And he didn't want to run, get stopped short, burn his final timeout and be boxed into calling a pass on third down.

"You could run on 2nd down, call timeout, have to throw on third and score, or incompletion and have to choose (run or pass) on the final down," Carroll texted. "That's ball logic, not 2nd guess logic ... you never think you'll throw an interception there, just as you don't think you would fumble."

(...)

"As Carroll and I continued our late-night text conversation, I thought I knew what was coming -- until the coach made a point that, while not completely altering my perspective, at least got me thinking. He did it by referencing Wilson's 11-yard touchdown pass to Chris Matthews on a ball that was snapped with six seconds left in the first half, completing a five-play, 80-yard, 29-second drive (you read that correctly) that tied the game at 14 just before Katy Perry took over the field.

"The logic and reasoning (of the second-and-1 pass) is why you throw a TD pass with six seconds left in the half," Carroll said. "You've trained your players to do the right thing, and I trust them to do right."

 

There's a legit argument for KISS and using your best weapon with the game on the line, but it's not stupidity to see a defensive front stacked against the run and call for a matchup you think you can exploit.  In hindsight, it was probably the wrong call, but for people who know football, it wasn't "stupid".

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

Sean has a reputation as wanting to play caveman football,  your guaranteed to lose coaching scared and he finally grew a pair.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Pete Carrol Goal Line stand on the 1 or 2 called a pass play that was intercepted to lose a SB. 

 

It’s just Pete. 

It's hard to run the ball on the goal line. Especially when the super bowl is on the line.  You can sell out and stop the run

 

It really wasn't a bad play, it was a better play by Malcolm Butler

Edited November 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[DrDawkinstein]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

 

I'm sure a large part of it was Carroll underestimating how aggressive McD was willing to be. However, part of the reason for his comments is because a coach can't come out and say "Our Pass D stinks, the players we have can't execute or cover, it's a huge weakness for us, and these guys arent getting any better". Even if it's the truth.

 

Sometimes a coach just has to eat it in the media to protect his players. It's part of the job and why most coach-speak in pressers is predictable and worthless.

[BillsFan619]

While he maybe shouldn’t have made the comment, it’s being a bit overblown.

 

He may have thought we were going to have a similar strategy to the Chiefs to stop a high scoring Seahawks team. PC adjusting and the defense getting to JA more in the 2nd half shows that he’s not “stupid”. That said, like someone else said, we adjusted too (which was great).

 

I’m no PC fan but to Hapless’ point, with PC’s track record, can you really say that he’s “stupid”? Bone headed mistakes and decisions from time to time, sure. Poorly called games from time to time, sure. What coach doesn’t? 
 

“Stupid”? Nah.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BillsFan619

[RoyBatty is alive]

What is really stunning about Carroll is his total lack of in game awareness, whey so long to make any defensive adjustments...i  would "blame" him for the loss if I were a Seahwak fan.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

49 minutes ago, Simon said:

I was talking to myself during that game marveling at how thoughtful the Seahawks were to implement a gameplan that was so conducive to the Bills success.

I haven't watched any replays but fwiw, in realtime I thought their approach to that matchup was inarguably stupid.

you can watch it again tonight at 6 

 

[Billsfan1972]

45 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Sean has a reputation as wanting to play caveman football,  your guaranteed to lose coaching scared and he finally grew a pair.

Which was the point of the thread.  I think Carroll expected the conservative, close to the vest McD.

 

Allen was not great weeks 5-8, but weather & game plan had a lot to do with it imo.  

 

Hope this is a sign of things to come.

 

 

[djp14150]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that the Bills had some interesting intel about the Seahawks and Carroll - remember they have a coach and a player, Farwell and Jefferson, and they both got game balls.

 

I think Carroll's comment has been misinterpreted.  I don't think he was thinking the Bills won't pass - though he might have been looking at Allen's most recent games and his shoulder and saying "possible they won't pass much".  I think he meant he didn't expect them to abandon the run completely, so they felt they still had to defend against it.  And of course, he's right in the sense that if they did play to lock down the pass and to say "run it if you can", I'm sure that is what the Bills would have done.

 

i agree...it’s about what the defense is showing.  The might have thought he will do 1st down predictable run, thrn be in 2nd and 3rd and long.

[DCbillsfan]

I thought the Bills would run more.  I even thought Allen would have some designed runs.  I listened to PCs post game presser later that night.  It seemed to me he was legitimately surprised about Bills not running much.  He was having a WTF moment.  It was priceless.  

[Sweats]

Carroll should have stayed at USC

[Buffalo03]

Well, this is a guy who thought it would be wiser to throw the ball from the one yard line on 2nd and goal in the Super Bowl instead of give it to Lynch with 3 tries left to pound it in....so yes, I guess you can say stupid 

[machine gun kelly]

56 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Carroll should have stayed at USC

He couldn’t.  You don’t remember the scandal?  He evaded it.  Reggie Bush took part of the hit.  He’s made a great career in Seattle, post USC.  It was a redemption to his earlier NFL career.  He’s a good coach and this is overblown.  They can’t really fix this until the off season.  Too bad as I like Wilson.  Heck of a guy.

[Sweats]

33 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

He couldn’t.  You don’t remember the scandal?  He evaded it.  Reggie Bush took part of the hit.  He’s made a great career in Seattle, post USC.  It was a redemption to his earlier NFL career.  He’s a good coach and this is overblown.  They can’t really fix this until the off season.  Too bad as I like Wilson.  Heck of a guy.

 

 

Ah yes, forgot about that....Carroll ran for the hills and got outta town ASAP.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

Ah yes, forgot about that....Carroll ran for the hills and got outta town ASAP.

Yep. Carroll was the first rat off the sinking ship.