Matt Hasselbeck on QB “intangibles” and Josh...

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Josh Allen is going to be better than Jim Kelly when it’s all said and done. 

As hard as it will be to admit my childhood hero may no longer be the best QB in our overall franchise history, I’ll also welcome that day, as it will likely usher in sustained success, and how can you not root for JA—he’s class on and off the field, and I’m ready for this team to be winners year in and year out!!

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I’m so glad this guy is our QB... I love him.. So humble too.. Dropped over 400 yards and 4 TDs on the Seahawks defense yet he sits humbly on the bench like nothing happened... Does Josh even realize how good he is?

Yes, yes he does—but he’s so good, he doesn’t even need to publicize himself. He lets his play do the talking, and that’s the best kind of trash talking there is. Right Jalen? 

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Bills fans have incredibly short memories.  It's usually right around 1 game long.

 

 

Just like our coach preaches—one game at a time! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

But it turns out size and arm strength were not his only elite traits. Competitiveness, work ethic, and athleticism are his equally elite traits. That's what the pre-draft amateur analysis missed. And yes those traits matter a ton for a raw QB.

Yes. QB is by far the hardest position to evaluate. I remember being literally the only one on this board watching college film of Allen and saying man, he looks like Cam Newton without Cam's play making and killer instincts. Then he gets to the NFL and he's playing like Cam Jr. Then last year he plays even more like MVP Cam. Then all of a sudden he turns into this combination of MVP Cam Newton and Ben Roethlisberger overnight. If Allen continues to play like this I don't think the NFL has ever seen anything like him. Maybe Steve Young or Elway. 

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I agree and I think the same about some have it and some don’t. Burrow has it. Darnold doesn’t. I’ve said that since he was at USC. I don’t think Herbert does. Still think he’s very good but I don’t see it. 

 

Good example to of this was the Chargers with Rivers or Brees, and they chose poorly.  Brees has it.  River's didnt.  Imagine if Brees had stayed in SD instead of Rivers, I think he wins more than one SB.  He had Tomlinson in his prime, there were some great defenses there, Antonio Gates, etc.  I really do think Brees wins more than 1 had he remained in SD with some of those rosters.  With the Saints, he has frequently been saddled with terrible defenses.  There were some Chargers teams that really should have made the SB, but that team didn't have anyone who could close games.  Brees closes games.  

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, so in this post:

 

You said "The truly great ones, you expect dominance every game and fear them picking you apart.  If you happen to slow them down enough to win, good job."

You also listed "Brady, Rodgers, Breese, Wilson, Maholmes, Big Ben"

 

All of these guys have had "bad days" during their career where they were not dominant and the other team had no fear of them.

 

You also say "if you get to the fourth quarter and are down 14 or less, you still believe you are firmly in it, even on a bad day".  It seems to me that even when Josh is having what I consider a bad day, we are usually in it in the fourth quarter.  I can think of two games where that wasn't true - the Eagles last year, and the Titans this year.  And maybe that goofy Houston game at the end where Josh was just trying to do too much.

 

Other than that, the KC game was, I would say, a bad game for Josh and it was 23-10 and when the Bills scored to make it 17-23 with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, I thought we were right in it until KC drove down for a FG to make it a 2 score game again - and if Zimmer's fumble had not been overturned, we might have at least managed a tie.

 

Last year, the first NE game which was undeniably a bad game for Josh with 3 INT, the score was still 10-16 (with a missed FG) going into the 4th Q and if Josh hadn't gotten knocked out I thought we had a real chance.    The Brownies game, right in it 19-16 with a missed FG to tie it in the final seconds (and another missed FG from 34 yards earlier).  The Ravens game, 17-24, again, right down there on the Ravens 16 with a chance to tie it at 1:08 left in the game.  The 2nd NE game, we had the lead going into the 4th Q, again we came back and were right there on the NE 9 with 1:12 left.

 

I mean, you can "expect dominance every game" if you like from Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Mahomes, and Big Ben" but the fact is: they've all had games where they were not dominant and the other team was in no fear of them all game, in fact their team was blown out.  Even Mahomes has a couple such games!  They all have many other games where they were not having a great day and their win came down to a few more plays by their team and by them at the end of the game, or a tie and going to overtime. 

 

That's why I wondered who you meant.

 

 

 

Let me simplify it, Josh is still a question as to what guy is showing up.  Those guys are ALWAYS expected to bring it.  At no point in any game is the opponent not fearful they will snap out of it and beat them.  When Josh goes into a funk, he’s not much of a threat.  
 

Yes, everyone has bad games and the team around you will obviously have a big impact on your opportunity to win.  Yes, last year the Bills were in a lot of game despite Allen having a bad game, that’s because they had one of the best defenses in the league, he had a chance to win a lot of those games and unfortunately didn’t turn it on in time in most of them. 

 

This year he has raised his game.  There’s no longer a question if he’s a top 15 guy, he is.  On his best day he’s a top 3 guy, on his bad day he’s below average.  He’s had many more games towards the good end of that, but still put up a good number of stinkers too.  So until he can consistently bring it, week in and week out and it becomes an exception that he has an average day, he is not in the league of the Maholmes, Brady etc.

[John from Riverside]

One of the things that always seems to pop into my head on posts like these.

 

It was widely rumored that Big Ben would hugely making fun of JP Losman....I remember hating it at the time

 

I dont think Ben R. does that to Josh Allen

[HomeTeam]

Watching Josh's  first half  versus the Seahawks was like the scene from the matrix where we all realize that Neo is the one. It seemed as things were moving in slow-motion and he could not be stopped.

 

It does raise the question, at what point do you comfortably say, Josh Allen is a franchise quarterback?

 

As others have so well stated, Josh Allen feels like the perfect quarterback for the Buffalo Bills.

 

Feels good man.  

[BUFFALOKIE]

9 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

He can't be reasoned with.

He can't be bargained with.

He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear.

And he absolutely will not stop EVER until you are beat!

With due respect to THE THURMANATOR,

 

I DIG YOUR REFERENCE!!!!!

 

THE JOSHINATOR

THE ALLENATOR

 

Thats all I got, doesn't quite work, but we are open for suggestions.

[Just Joshin']

Josh has "it" in spades.  What Josh has is leadership and is a good guy.  His team mates would walk through fire for him because he lays it on the line. 

 

Darnold and Rosen do not have "it".  I am not sure their team mates would yell watch out if they were going to step in front of a bus.  Nice guys most likely but not leaders.

 

People think Mayfield has "it" but it is mistaken for being obnoxious and self absorbed.  I think his team would not come to his house other than that is where they play.  Mayfield is not a leader or nice guy it seems from afar.

[JerseyBills]

Always said,  he has everything you CAN'T teach in a Franchise QB. God bless the Jets and Browns for passing over him!

 

Go Bills

2 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Josh has "it" in spades.  What Josh has is leadership and is a good guy.  His team mates would walk through fire for him because he lays it on the line. 

 

Darnold and Rosen do not have "it".  I am not sure their team mates would yell watch out if they were going to step in front of a bus.  Nice guys most likely but not leaders.

 

People think Mayfield has "it" but it is mistaken for being obnoxious and self absorbed.  I think his team would not come to his house other than that is where they play.  Mayfield is not a leader or nice guy it seems from afar.

What separates Mayfield and Allen is the work they put in behind the cameras. Mon-Sat

 

[JoshAllenReceipts]

Coming out of Wyoming, I studied and evaluated Josh Allen, and I gave him a perfect 50 out of 50 on the Intangibles scale

 

Scale of 1-10:

 

1) Leadership = 10

 

2) Toughness = 10

 

3) Competitive spirit = 10

 

4) Work ethic, love for the game = 10

 

5) Clutch in the big moment = 10

 

Perfect 50/50 in Intangibles.

[bmur66]

There is nobody else I would rather have leading my team

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

One of the things that always seems to pop into my head on posts like these.

 

It was widely rumored that Big Ben would hugely making fun of JP Losman....I remember hating it at the time

 

I dont think Ben R. does that to Josh Allen

I vaguely remember this but don't really remember the details now.  I have mentioned before on this board that Josh Allen is panning out to be everything JP Losman was advertised as.  I remember when Losman was drafted he was billed as having the Jim Kelly, Brett Favre swagger but we certainly never saw that on the field.  Allen has it

[SydneyBillsFan]

17 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Josh Allen is going to be better than Jim Kelly when it’s all said and done. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Jim never had a 4000 yard passing season, yeah?

 

Josh will likely have one up his sleeve in 2020 - in only his second full season. And I suspect that, barring serious injury, there will be many more to come.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I’m not saying intangibles don’t mean something. But accuracy, intelligence, arm strength are far more important. If you don’t have those three, intangibles get you guys like Fitz or even worse Peterman. Maybe they are good competitors but they are flawed QBs. Guys like Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, and Young have intangibles because they check the box on accuracy, intelligence, and arm strength first.

1 hour ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Jim never had a 4000 yard passing season, yeah?

 

Josh will likely have one up his sleeve in 2020 - in only his second full season. And I suspect that, barring serious injury, there will be many more to come.

Different era

Kelly had Thurman Thomas 

Kelly won playoff games

Yards are nearly meaningless. TD/INT ratio, YPA, and completion percentage are the most important measures for QB play. 
Allen is not throwing interceptions and if he keeps that up and fumbles less then he has a chance to be great

[eball]

57 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I’m not saying intangibles don’t mean something. But accuracy, intelligence, arm strength are far more important. If you don’t have those three, intangibles get you guys like Fitz or even worse Peterman. Maybe they are good competitors but they are flawed QBs. Guys like Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, and Young have intangibles because they check the box on accuracy, intelligence, and arm strength first.

Umm, no. You clearly don’t understand what Hasselbeck was saying. 

[JerseyBills]

You gotta give Beane and McDermott so much credit for identifying those intangibles and realizing the fit he'd be to this culture.  

 

Those intangibles equal success , and are something analytics can never show you!

 

 

[Big Turk]

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yes. QB is by far the hardest position to evaluate. I remember being literally the only one on this board watching college film of Allen and saying man, he looks like Cam Newton without Cam's play making and killer instincts. Then he gets to the NFL and he's playing like Cam Jr. Then last year he plays even more like MVP Cam. Then all of a sudden he turns into this combination of MVP Cam Newton and Ben Roethlisberger overnight. If Allen continues to play like this I don't think the NFL has ever seen anything like him. Maybe Steve Young or Elway. 

 

Neither of them had Allen's arm...and Elway had a cannon. Allen can literally throw the ball so fast the camerman can't pan fast enough. So there were times early on in his career where Allen throws the ball and you see him throw it and then you see the receiver running with the ball but you never saw the ball actually get to the receiver.

[BillsPride12]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Neither of them had Allen's arm...and Elway had a cannon. Allen can literally throw the ball so fast the camerman can't pan fast enough. So there were times early on in his career where Allen throws the ball and you see him throw it and then you see the receiver running with the ball but you never saw the ball actually get to the receiver.

My best comparison or least in my eyes would be a hybrid between Big Ben and Favre 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

My best comparison or least in my eyes would be a hybrid between Big Ben and Favre 

He moves like a young Cam. The NFL really hasn't seen anything like him. A combo of all 3 is probably accurate. Mahomes is like a Aaron Rodgers on steroids. They have similar styles but Mahomes is just more physically gifted. Allen is a little more unorthodox, plays a little more backyard football like Favre and big Ben, but he does it with the athleticism of Cam Newton. 

 

See now with Favre I think we're talking arm talent and release. Farve wasn't an x and o QB. I think Allen doesn't get enough credit for how smart he is x and o wise. Now applying it to real game situations is more difficult and we're seeing him do that this year at a high level. Favre had to be taught how to read a play book. He wasn't a student of the game early in his career. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Jim never had a 4000 yard passing season, yeah?

 

Josh will likely have one up his sleeve in 2020 - in only his second full season. And I suspect that, barring serious injury, there will be many more to come.

Different era

Kelly had Thurman Thomas 

Kelly won playoff games

Yards are nearly meaningless. TD/INT ratio, YPA, and completion percentage are the most important measures for QB play. 
Allen is not throwing interceptions and if he keeps that up and fumbles less then he has a chance to be great