Would the Bills have turned it around under Ralph Wilson’s stewardship?

[Rocky Landing]

If Ralph Wilson were alive today, he would be 102. How hypothetical do we want this conversation to be?

[batmanfreek]

Chan Gailey would probably be back as HC. 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Will the Jets turn it around under Woody? 😁

I'd like to know if he's letting his brother run things or not.  If he has let his brother run things with no interference, when he comes back in January will he fire everyone and level the whole thing? 

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'd like to know if he's letting his brother run things or not.  If he has let his brother run things with no interference, when he comes back in January will he fire everyone and level the whole thing? 

Valid questions. I assume that even if Woody decides to retire after playing make-believe diplomat that Gase is gone. If he does come back to actually run his team I do think it’s likely he completely cleans house.

[JetsFan20]

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Will the Jets turn it around under Woody? 😁

Woody has been out of pocket since 2016 when he signed on as the Ambassador to the UK for the Trump administration.

 

He handed the keys to the organization to his brother who has somehow been more incompetent than he was. 
 

With Trump losing re-election he is now nearly certain to return which will add another variable to the Jets offseason. 

 

With a treasure chest of draft picks and ample cap space the Jets can turn this around pretty quickly if the Johnson’s can bring in a real head coach. 
 

 

[JetsFan20]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

Valid questions. I assume that even if Woody decides to retire after playing make-believe diplomat that Gase is gone. If he does come back to actually run his team I do think it’s likely he completely cleans house.

I don’t think anybody really knows to what degree Woody was involved over the past four years. I’m sure he and his brother talked and were aligned on some of these decisions. It’s not like Woody was on Mars and couldn’t be contacted. 
 

Joe Douglas signed a 6 year deal to be a GM. There is no chance the Johnsons are completely cleaning house and firing him after one offseason.
 

Will they let him take the lead and hire the next coach? That is the question 

 

As it currently stands Douglas does not have the power to hire/fire the HC. Gase reports to ownership which is something the fan base has been heavily critical about. 

 

[BigdaddyinOrlando]

Sadly no. Don’t foresee him pouring that kind of money and resources into the training facilities. Giving basic team control to football people. And probably most of all wouldn’t have hired the current coach and GM. Probably would have been on the retread treadmill for those two positions.

Sadly probably not. Don’t see him pouring all that money into the training facilities and the new tech resources willingly. Wouldn’t have given total control to the football people at all. Wouldn’t have hired the current HC and GM, probably would still be on the retread treadmill for those two positions unfortunately. 

[JMF2006]

6 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

How much of an effect has the new ownership

had on the organization? 
 

Do you think Ralph would have hired McDermott and Beane and the results would be similar? 

NO!

 

We had Marrone and DC Schwartz at the time and the team was moving forward....at Glacial speed

 

We still didn't have a franchise QB and the prospects of acquiring one didn't look very good

BTW RIP Ralph thanks for keeping the team in Buffalo.

Edited November 11, 2020 by JMF2006

[machine gun kelly]

If it were not for Ralph (May he Rest In Peace), there would be no foolish 8, the Raiders would have folded (he loaned Al Davis $ to keep the Raiders franchise alive in the early 1960’s), that if you follow the logic would have an AFL that wouldn’t survive, and so on.  He brought this city two AFL Championships, he resisted moving the team to Jacksonville, kept it in Buffalo forever and made it impossible for a successive owner to move the team, and donates 50% of the proceeds of the sale to philanthropic causes in Buffalo.  For a man from Detroit loving our city and team so much he named the team after the previous Buffalo Bills from the 1940’s.  He always fought for small market owners survival, was a driving force for the shared revenue concept.  If we are going to discuss whether Ralph would turn this team around, it’s almost fitting especially younger fans know how many great things he did for the NFL, the team, and the city.

 

Now whether he would have been able to land Beane and McD which is where this starts, I’d say no.  He probably would have held onto Marron longer which was a typical Ralph move.  I never had the good fortune to meet him, but my dad would see him every once in awhile at the Buffalo News.  He told me one day he was leaving the news to go to M&T bank for a meeting and Ralph said to dad, if you’re heading that way, let’s walk together.  He told me Mr. Wilson couldn’t be any nice and asked my dad what he would do next on the team.  They only walked together for two blocks, but of course my father was just polite and said he was doing a great job.  This was during the Polian days.  Just the fact that Mr. Wilson wanted to know from an average fan what are some good ideas just shows back in the day, he care what fans thought.

 

God bless Mr. Wilson and hopefully you’re smiling up in heaven what he can see is happening to our beloved Bills.

[May Day 10]

7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

In the final years of Ralph's ownership it became obvious few reputable NFL HC and GM candidates wanted to work in Buffalo.  This was evidenced during the period in late 2009/January 2010 when the Bills were forced to hire 70 year old Buddy Nix for his first NFL GM gig who brought on Chan Gailey.  

 

This after Ralph decided to:

 

Re-sign Dick Jauron to a contract extension in 2008.  He proceeded to then go 2-8 to finish that season and was fired in mid 2009.  

Promote Russ Brandon multiple times, including to GM in 2008.  

Hire octogenarian Marv Levy as GM in 2006.  

Permit Jeff Littmann to, well, remain in the organization for years on end.

 

The Bills would not have attracted a HC and GM like McD and Beane to OBD in a RW owned franchise.  Very little chance of success given the lack of investment into the team as what occurred from around 2006-2014.  

 

Pretty much this.  Nobody with options wanted to work here as gm or Hc.  The organizational structure was rigged so russ brandon was the de facto gm.  

 

Marrone tried a powerplay against this when pegula purchased the team.  The pegulas chose to continue with the russ brandon model.  They finally figured it out and walled him off when the organization became a further embarrassment with the rex ryan era and a series of follies like the anthony lynn pc and whaley's "privy" fest.

[CNYfan]

I think "no".

[BuffaloRebound]

Not really a fair question.  Ralph was in his 90’s and without a clear plan of succession, no good GM or coach was coming here when they didn’t know who their future boss was gonna be.  

[billsherd]

I don't think so. 

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

How much of an effect has the new ownership

had on the organization? 
 

Do you think Ralph would have hired McDermott and Beane and the results would be similar? 

 

Absolutely not.  Russ Brandon took over running the team in 2006 after the firing of Tom Donahoe, and he would still be running the team today if Pegula hadn't purchased the team.  After Pegula's first foray into running the team with the Rex Ryan hiring, he put Brandon back in charge but also gave him control of the Sabres.  The hiring of McDermott and Beane were very similar to many previous Bills hirings:  unproven coaches/GMs hoping to prove themselves.   With his added responsibilities to the Sabres, though, Brandon probably gave Beane more responsibility (but not full GM responsibility) than Buddy Nix or Doug Whaley ever had.

 

Wilson ignored Brandon's sexual harassment of female employees at OBD, but the Pegulas did not.  When he lied to them about harassing a Sabres employee, they fired his arse in the spring of 2018 and didn't hire a replacement to oversee both teams.    That's when Beane gained real GM powers, including the power to set budgets for the coaching staff.  It's no accident that after the 2018 season the Bills fired almost all of the offensive assistants (I think that Daboll might have been the only survivor) and hired much better ones, including an experienced QB coach, Ken Dorsey, to mentor Josh Allen.   Beane also went out and got support for Allen in free agency by signing FAs like John Brown and Cole Beasley.  Since then, Beane signaled that the Bills weren't the doing the same BS they had done under Brandon by re-signing their premier DB Tre White rather than letting him walk away in FA as they had done with Stephon Gilmore in 2017.  He also went out and traded for premier WR Stefon Diggs. 

 

Under Russ Brandon's control, the Bills sacrificed success on the field in order to squeeze out as much profit as possible.  Under Brandon Beane's control, the Bills have prioritized winning football games over profits, and it shows.

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Absolutely not. 

[Greg S]

The Bills had some really good times during Ralph's ownership. The best although it was before my time was the back to back AFL championships in 64 and 65. The Bills were pretty good in the early 80's with Knox as well. I still think if they would have gotten by the Chargers in the divisional round then they were Super Bowl bound in 80. The Super Bowl years in the early the 90's were great times as well. The Pegula's appear to have hit a HR with McDermott and Beane. They also open up the wallet more than Ralph ever did. To early to compare. Ralph owned the team a long time and the Pegula's are in the early stages of their ownership. They appear to be doing a good job with the Bills but have failed (so far) with the Sabres.

[HOUSE]

Yes, Ralph would have turned it around AND saved money in the process

[Don Otreply]

6 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Woody has been out of pocket since 2016 when he signed on as the Ambassador to the UK for the Trump administration.

 

He handed the keys to the organization to his brother who has somehow been more incompetent than he was. 
 

With Trump losing re-election he is now nearly certain to return which will add another variable to the Jets offseason. 

 

With a treasure chest of draft picks and ample cap space the Jets can turn this around pretty quickly if the Johnson’s can bring in a real head coach. 
 

 

And there in lies the bigger question, will the Johnsons get the hell out of the way after they hire a new GM & HC and let them run the show? The answer to that is, Oh, hell no! 
 

its the jets after all...

[mjt328]

On one hand, most owners are not involved in the direct day-to-day operations of the franchise.  

On the other hand, the owner hires the General Manager, and everything trickles down from that point.

 

The greatest period in Bills history was when Ralph Wilson hired Bill Polian, and just let him run the show.

Now consider that Polian was an internal hire for a Bills team that was among the worst in the entire NFL.  So honestly, the fact that Polian turned out to be a Hall of Fame GM was purely dumb luck on Wilson's part.  And Wilson ended up firing Polian in the middle of the 4-straight Super Bowl run, which was one of the most ignorant decisions in the history of our franchise.  

 

After that point, Wilson became the nightmare meddling owner.  He fired John Butler (who was fairly successful replacing Polian) over money.  He demanded Wade Phillips fire the Special Teams coach, and then fired him when he wouldn't.  When the Tom Donahoe experiment failed, Wilson reassumed the role of president and named Marv Levy the GM.  There are many credible stories about Wilson dictating moves in the draft room.

 

So the short answer is... probably not.  Unless Wilson was willing to step aside completely, and got lucky hiring the right guy, nothing would have turned around for the Bills.  

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Perhaps this thread should wait until the current regime wins at least one playoff game