otagoyellow Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 Looks like a TD for sure. Incredible how he managed to stay in. 1
Matt_In_NH Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I have heard a lot of opinions that it would "definitely have been ruled a TD". I disagree. You need the clear visual evidence, I am not saying it does not exist but I have not seen it. First is his foot all in bounds? Could someone question if blade of the the out of bounds grass/turf have touch his foot? This is really close IMO, yeah the majority of his foot is in bounds, but he side of his shoe could have been touching. But lets say you conclude his foot is in bounds, not you need clear evidence the football went over the pylon, was that shown? I did not see it if it was. Again, maybe it was but there needs to be indisputable evidence it was over the pylon. Second half timeouts are gold and the NFL errs towards keeping the play as called on the field, I think a good non challenge. 6 minutes ago, otagoyellow said: Looks like a TD for sure. Incredible how he managed to stay in. How can you clearly see the ball is over the pylon with this angle?
mjt328 Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I would imagine that most fans have never stood on the sideline during a football game. It would be impossible for Sean McDermott to see whether Gabe Davis was inbounds from his vantage point. Ultimately, information on challenges need to come from someone else on the Bills staff. There needs to be someone with access to video replays who is immediately checking on these plays in slow-motion, and then communicating that information down to McDermott. I'm not sure how other teams handle this procedure, but it definitely seems like the Bills are behind the 8-ball compared to others around the league. It seems to me that we often miss good opportunities to challenge, but then throw the red flag when the chances of overturning are slim. And McDermott's record at challenging calls is the proof. It's something I wish he would research and find out what successful teams are doing differently.
fan_in_tx Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 11 hours ago, JerseyBills said: That play is my biggest knock on McDermott for this game. We were up, it was close enough to challenge and we only got 3 on that drive. I still don't know why he didn't try. I thought it would for sure it was a TD And just shows the gameplan and coach were great, that a play like that was my biggest problem with the game. Also shows how dominant we were . We could have put up 50 Wondering if he wanted to work on redzone inside 10 offense. We seem to have a bit of a challenge here in past games getting 6 inside the 10. My assumption is if we were down he would have challenged. Being up thought process may have been to work on some areas we have challenges and see if we can produce 6. Obviously we learned we need more work in this area to score from inside the 5. 1
dave mcbride Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 13 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: I believe they rushed to the line to get the Seahawks D off balance, which was the right call, assuming the refs git their call right-- which at the moment, it really did look like Davis had stepped out of bounds. It was only on slo-mo replay, a play later, that you could see that he had not dropped his heel, and was inbounds. But, even with that, there is no guarantee that the call would have been reversed. It was very close. I'm not at all convinced it would have been reversed. It might have been, but that was no sure thing.
Thurman#1 Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, mjt328 said: I would imagine that most fans have never stood on the sideline during a football game. It would be impossible for Sean McDermott to see whether Gabe Davis was inbounds from his vantage point. Ultimately, information on challenges need to come from someone else on the Bills staff. There needs to be someone with access to video replays who is immediately checking on these plays in slow-motion, and then communicating that information down to McDermott. I'm not sure how other teams handle this procedure, but it definitely seems like the Bills are behind the 8-ball compared to others around the league. It seems to me that we often miss good opportunities to challenge, but then throw the red flag when the chances of overturning are slim. And McDermott's record at challenging calls is the proof. It's something I wish he would research and find out what successful teams are doing differently. They did a couple of years ago after the season and he's gotten better, though still not great. His first two years he was 1 for 10. Last year 2 for 5 which is pretty close to average. (Last year 37% of all NFL challenges succeeded). This year 0 for 2 so far, which is bad but also incomplete and probably statistically insignificant with too small a sample. Edited November 10, 2020 by Thurman#1 1
BornAgainBillsFan Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 All Gabe needed to do was to drop to the ground with a fake hammy cramp. Then the booth gets a few looks at the replay. Unless it's within 2:00 of the half or game, it doesn't cost a thing.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 14 hours ago, letsgoteam said: Yup. Also I think some of the blame is Gabe Davis. He should have told them that he thought he scored! So Davis should have been looking at his feet rather than the phylon? That sounds like a smart idea! Without him looking directly down at his feet, how could he tell and even then would be hard to know for certain what part of the bottom of his foot was actually touching the field and what wasn't. There was no recognition by him as to whether he scored or not. Maybe another Bills player trailing the play directly along the sideline could have seen it, but no way Davis could tell. They didn't show the replay until after they came back from commercial after the Bills ran 4 more plays including the field goal. Without a replay, how would anyone know he was in or out. I'll agree McD's replay record isn't very good, but criticizing him for this play is crazy.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 He wanted to keep Josh’s TD stats down so his extension doesn’t completely break the bank
letsgoteam Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So Davis should have been looking at his feet rather than the phylon? That sounds like a smart idea! Without him looking directly down at his feet, how could he tell and even then would be hard to know for certain what part of the bottom of his foot was actually touching the field and what wasn't. There was no recognition by him as to whether he scored or not. Maybe another Bills player trailing the play directly along the sideline could have seen it, but no way Davis could tell. They didn't show the replay until after they came back from commercial after the Bills ran 4 more plays including the field goal. Without a replay, how would anyone know he was in or out. I'll agree McD's replay record isn't very good, but criticizing him for this play is crazy. No of course not, Im not saying he should be looking down at his feet. What I'm saying is sometimes athletes can just "feel" if they did or did not make a spectacular play. As in "feeling" that he was able to control his body in bounds. Granted "blame" might be too harsh of a word, but I was just saying if Gabe felt he scored, he should have advocated for himself.
Doc Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 It was clearly a TD on replay but I thought the same thing about Brown's TD against the Raiders. Thankfully it didn't decide anything, although 4 TD passes for Josh would have been nice.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 3 hours ago, mattynh said: How can you clearly see the ball is over the pylon with this angle? Definitely disagree. Its completely clear he was in as far as I am concerned.
jkeerie Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 6 hours ago, 1ManRaid said: I didn't see "daylight" between his foot and the white turf on the views they did first have. All it takes to fail that challenge is the possibility for the tip of a single blade of fake white grass to touch his foot. So yeah, keep the reeling defense on their heels and rush to shove it in with Josh rather than burn a time out giving them a breather. *edit* Also, didn't see clear evidence of the ball going over the pilon. Too many moving parts and maybes on this one. Had they challenged, I doubt they would have been awarded a TD for that reason. They just didn't have a good camera angle down the line.
Mcdermott Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 13 hours ago, DQW87 said: The players have got to have their input in on close plays and have some kind of signal to the coach to help out. Signal you might want to take a closer look at that upstairs so they can slow down the huddle a little for extra time. Coaches can't catch everything especially when the plays way over in the corner of the opposite side. Even on plays you think might go against you, there should be a hurry up signal from any receiver that thinks they may have gotten away with a trap catch. Players routinely think they made a play when replay proves they didn’t. You can’t let them influence you.
Matt_In_NH Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Definitely disagree. Its completely clear he was in as far as I am concerned. Ok, but you are a biased fan, calls are not overturned based on opinion. I dont think from that view the NFL would have overturned. How can you say the ball went OVER the pylon The endzone plane does not extend indefinitely out of bounds.
Rubes Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, BornAgainBillsFan said: All Gabe needed to do was to drop to the ground with a fake hammy cramp. Then the booth gets a few looks at the replay. Unless it's within 2:00 of the half or game, it doesn't cost a thing. You know, this is not a bad idea. If someone makes a play and thinks their team needs to take a look, go down with a cramp. As long as it's not within 2 minutes of each half (you'd lose a timeout) and you don't mind having the player come out for a play due to injury, no reason it wouldn't work...
JerseyBills Posted November 10, 2020 Author Posted November 10, 2020 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I'm not at all convinced it would have been reversed. It might have been, but that was no sure thing. In that situation. Comfortable lead. I'd wished his advisors would have taken a look. I know we were humming on O and an easy TD was expected but we only got 3. I think it was close enough to warrant a look. It looks like a TD
blacklabel Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I'd say that the offense knew that they were rolling with hurry up right after that play so I'm sure all the players were thinking they had to get up on the line and get ready. They trusted the refs with the call and the guys upstairs probably didn't get enough time to look at it before the ball was snapped for the next play. I don't really think anyone is directly at fault. Again, with the way it played out it seems like the playcall was, "Get on the line and get ready as soon as this play is over cause we're going hurry up."
SoCal Deek Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I didn't read much past the first few comments...but it should not be left up to a rookie WR to advocate for whether he stayed in bounds. The coaching staff needs to get WAY BETTER at this part of the game. I honestly think that their poor track record on challenges is in their head now. Just like all other aspects of being an NFL Team, this is something they have to work on. If this had been a playoff game, they would NOT have wanted to leave any points on the field.
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