Trump supporters...please show class. Don't be sore losers...

[StHustle]

3 hours ago, RiotAct said:

I agree with you 100% OP. However, please tell me you weren’t one of the “RUSSIA!!!  RUSSIA!!!” blathering conspiracy theorists in 2016?

 

I indeed wasn't. But if I were, it would have nothing to do with this. I don't look forward to the stammering Biden for the next 3 years...HOWEVER...as an American citizen I'm only given two choices. As an individual, please don't group me in with a whole parties beliefs. I disagree with plenty Biden says, HOWEVER, I agree with Trump even less. So what am I supposed to do? Not vote???? Unfortunately I was forced to vote against Trump rather than for Biden. And I'm not happy about it. 

[StHustle]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The problem is that it's not "the parties" that decide who runs for POTUS.  Back in the 1960s, the state party insiders pretty much decided on which candidates that the states would support at the national conventions, but in the 1970s that changed due to the upheavals caused by the Vietnam War, the student protests, and civil rights movement.   State primary elections selected national convention delegates pledged to specific presidential candidates while "special delegates" picked by party leaders shrank in number and influence or disappeared altogether.   Today, in most states, it's rank-and-file members of the state political parties who decide which candidates get state delegates.  That's more democratic, but it also makes it "base" voters -- rank and file party members who come out to vote in primaries -- very powerful, and many of those party members tend to be closer to the ideological wings of the parties than to the center.

 

So at the end of the day do you have a solution?

3 hours ago, Muppy said:

a very thought provoking post and plea Hustle I appreciate it. As I was reading it I could hear echos of Trump supporters Ive both read and know personally ringing in my ears the following in response to what you wrote (highlighted) Ditto Muppy but with regards to Joe Biden we want that from you. Each and every point I highlighted that is their percepton towards we folks who don't buy into Donald Trump and support Biden. This board illustrated it perfectly especially before the exodus.  That is the sad state of political affairs in this country. Echo chambers are about the only expression that doesnt cause trolling divisiveness and ridicule. I think it is predisposed to people who chat in political forums especially. So many right fighters,..... who is delusional and who is not. Who sees the truth and who does not. Its based on what side of the aisle you happen to sit and strength exists in numbers within each forums predominant political persuasion thats the way it goes. I dont see it changing and one echo chamber replaced with another unless you want fighting name calling and ridicule. Even expressing this I'll be labeled a snowflake. I rarely chat in political chats not because I dont have views and opinions I just dont like being disparaged for what those thoughts and ideas are. No one person is going to change the mind of any other poster in these forums. its a futile exercise. Thats my cynical opinion. I appreciate the thoughts though. 

 

I really appreciate you adding your view. There is so much you said that I agree with.

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

 

Was it not proven? I mean you do have plenty of Republicans behind bars and the only reason it didn't go further was because Mueller didn't want to set a precedent.

 

 

Neither here or nor at this point. Dems were upset when Clinton lost; they didn't start trying to gun up voting centers or start protests outside. The dems responded with pettiness. It's time that people come together and the only way I see that happening is by passing a law what centralizes News networks and talk shows (and things like Facebook feeds). I'm serious. People are settling into groups because they only know one side. I'll always remember when Jack Abramoff was arrested and Fox News didn't even cover it. But republicans are drawn to that because so many news outlets are personalities are openly democrat. Hell of the three Late Night personalities the only one that doesn't come off as super liberal is Jimmy Fallon (and he is definitly left leaning) 

 

Look, we are on the same side here overall... BUT... you dont see any potential issues with the government "centralizing news networks and talk shows (and things like Facebook feeds)???" That sounds very Trumpesque. I just honestly want to know who the people of America voted in, and live with that result. Am I happy it wasnt't Trump as of now? HELL YEAH! Am I happy its Biden? Hell NO!!! I wasn't voting FOR Biden as much as i was voting AGAINST Trump. I will be the first to admit that. HOWEVER, I am still bewildered how so much of the country could back a guy with such little regard for anything or anybody but himself. Such little integrity, such little regard for this country, claiming fraud when the only fraud is him..... It honestly makes me want to find some other country to move to. Thats sad. Of course any bigots reading this won't care at all about my feelings which echo MILLIONS of African Americans in this country. Most Trumpers will support my notion to leave the country....as you grasp on to Trumps final political gasps. 

 

What Im hoping to see is backbone!!! I am happy to report that overall, MOST Trump supporters I personally know (which isnt many at all, I personally know 5) are starting to back off their unequivocal support for his every word and realize Trump is a sore loser who has never been able to accept defeat in his life.

 

Trump told all his supporters that he could shoot a person in broad day and you all will still support him. How does that not rub you all the wrong way??? Its amazing how the influence of Trump can make a smart person turn dumb. He has really cast some spell against the America I know. I dont care what situation we are in as a country, we actually used to care about the character of who we elected. Well, at least in modern history. Right now so many are just fine with a racist president (and yes....it cant be proven)

Edited November 7, 2020 by StHustle

[BullBuchanan]

8 hours ago, StHustle said:

Trump is a chess player.

Sorry, You lost me here. I'd lay him 10:1 on checkers.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, dma0034 said:

 

Was it not proven? I mean you do have plenty of Republicans behind bars and the only reason it didn't go further was because Mueller didn't want to set a precedent.

 

 

Neither here or nor at this point. Dems were upset when Clinton lost; they didn't start trying to gun up voting centers or start protests outside. The dems responded with pettiness. It's time that people come together and the only way I see that happening is by passing a law what centralizes News networks and talk shows (and things like Facebook feeds). I'm serious. People are settling into groups because they only know one side. I'll always remember when Jack Abramoff was arrested and Fox News didn't even cover it. But republicans are drawn to that because so many news outlets are personalities are openly democrat. Hell of the three Late Night personalities the only one that doesn't come off as super liberal is Jimmy Fallon (and he is definitly left leaning) 

 

I generally agree with your take here but I cannot agree with the statement I bolded.  A "central news" authority of some kind that would regulate news, talk shows, social media, etc is a bigger danger to American democracy than having a demented bully as POTUS because the news would then be filtered through whatever lens the federal "authority" would approve.  We wouldn't know that the POTUS was a demented bully because some unseen hand would clean up his words before anybody saw them or heard them and reject his most outrageous lies -- or there would be no way that we would be able to find out if what the POTUS said was a lie.  We would never hear the other side.

 

The US, in fact, had a couple of tries at something like this in the 1950s and 1960s.   The first was a national censorship group that regulated "decency" on TV and in the media.  The second one was more pernicious: a "gentlemen's agreement" among reporters and print a.nd broadcast editors/publishers to suppress any news stories that reflected poorly on the POTUS.   This agreement to never publish stories may have predated the Cold War, but it peaked during the Cold War.   Certainly the most egregious -- and dangerous -- example this agreement was the fact that JFK was having prostitutes brought into the WH at a time when the Soviet Union was well known for using female spies posing as prostritues and "party girls" (a British PM and his government were forced to resign amid allegations of trysts with such spies).  All the reporters covering the WH knew what JFK was doing but kept it from the public.   This didn't come out until decades after Kennedy's death although there had been rumors about it.

 

No thank you to censorship, whether it's imposed from the top or self imposed.

 

2 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

So at the end of the day do you have a solution?

 

 

I think the best way to counter the negative effects of the democratization of the presidential candidate selection is to do away with the Electoral College.  Most Americans are centrists, but the party bases are further to the left or right of the political spectrum.  Electoral college gamesmanship allows parties to win elections with candidates who don't appeal to most American voters.  Going with just the popular vote --- direct election of the POTUS -- would force party bases to move toward the center to appeal to most Americans.  Nobody likes to lose.

 

 

2 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Look, we are on the same side here overall... BUT... you dont see any potential issues with the government "centralizing news networks and talk shows (and things like Facebook feeds)???" That sounds very Trumpesque. I just honestly want to know who the people of America voted in, and live with that result. Am I happy it wasnt't Trump as of now? HELL YEAH! Am I happy its Biden? Hell NO!!! I wasn't voting FOR Biden as much as i was voting AGAINST Trump. I will be the first to admit that. HOWEVER, I am still bewildered how so much of the country could back a guy with such little regard for anything or anybody but himself. Such little integrity, such little regard for this country, claiming fraud when the only fraud is him..... It honestly makes me want to find some other country to move to. Thats sad. Of course any bigots reading this won't care at all about my feelings which echo MILLIONS of African Americans in this country. Most Trumpers will support my notion to leave the country....as you grasp on to Trumps final political gasps. 

 

What Im hoping to see is backbone!!! I am happy to report that overall, MOST Trump supporters I personally know (which isnt many at all, I personally know 5) are starting to back off their unequivocal support for his every word and realize Trump is a sore loser who has never been able to accept defeat in his life.

 

Trump told all his supporters that he could shoot a person in broad day and you all will still support him. How does that not rub you all the wrong way??? Its amazing how the influence of Trump can make a smart person turn dumb. He has really cast some spell against the America I know. I dont care what situation we are in as a country, we actually used to care about the character of who we elected. Well, at least in modern history. Right now so many are just fine with a racist president (and yes....it cant be proven)

 

"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time." -- Abraham Lincoln

 

I think that this election proves this in spades.

[Niagara Bill]

32 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

How about no, guy who pushed russian collusion bull#### for four years?

You missed the point again....it is not bull####, trump is the most dishonest person ever to be in the WH. He and nuts like Bannon have many unethical connections. He surrounded himself with wildeyed conspiracy loving idiots.

[All_Pro_Bills]

55 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

You missed the point again....it is not bull####, trump is the most dishonest person ever to be in the WH. He and nuts like Bannon have many unethical connections. He surrounded himself with wildeyed conspiracy loving idiots.

I could find a few other Presidential actions I consider "more" dishonest.  Andrew Jackson screwing all the Indian tribes by hustling them out of their land and personally profiting from the sale of land tracts in place like Georgia.  Just to name one.  And isn't dishonesty a prerequisite for being a politician in the first place?  After all, every election you need to pretend to care about the voters.      

 

I'm not a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter.  I hold out hope we can do better but with each passing election I lose a little faith in that belief.  There will certainly be legal challenges to the results in several "swing" states.  Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Arizona. 

 

PA will by all accounts end up at the US Supreme Court. In October the PA Supreme Court ruled that ballots received after 8 PM on Nov. 3rd should be counted citing extraordinary circumstances caused by the pandemic.  This contrary to PA election law which states ballots received after that deadline are invalid.  Some might call this judicial activism.  The US court will likely rule those ballots invalid and they've already instructed PA election officials to segregate those ballots.  

 

In PA and MI postal workers have reported they were directed by supervisors to sort-out ballots received late from other mail and manually pre-date them with a postal stamp prior to Nov. 3rd.  You can call it some conspiracy or whatever you'd like but workers have agreed to testify to this under oath if required.  And manual and mechanical stamps can be visually identified if needed on ballots.  What was the reason and source of such a directive? 

In the contested states vote counts were stopped in counties that officials knew would go large for Biden.   Why stop counting?  In order to know how many fake votes they need to stuff into the ballot box to eek out a close but comfortable win is the explanation I read from election rigging "experts".  Cook Country Illinois is 1960 is a classic example of this strategy. 

 

Most likely Biden will be declared the winner, serve a few months, and then step down as Harris assumes the Presidency.  But in the event these challenges are successful and Trump is declared winner chaos will break out everywhere as many will simply refuse to accept the results regardless of the illegitimate and illegal vote fraud.  As mainstream and social media spin it all as you do -  sore loser reactions.  The uninformed public will buy the narrative hook, like, and sinker.  They're either incapable of comprehending the situation or too intellectually lazy to follow a complex set of intertwined circumstances.  Conversely, Trump's most loyal supporters will also refuse to accept the outcome and they can do a lot of damage too.  Either way we're in for a wild ride in 2021 as the "not my President" mantra lives on in a slightly different form.  And most ironic to me is the pontificating hypocrites lecturing others on accepting the results of an election where they have refused to do the very same thing for almost 4 years.    

Edited November 7, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I think the precedent from 2016 is to do the following:

A. Question foreign influences the outcome .

B. Spend the next 4 years trying to find grounds to impeach

C. Start a radical group to get your point across.

 

We'll see what the high road is. 

unlike the Republican precedent to make sure Democrats fail at every turn. 
 

Block all nominations for judges. 

 

yeah. Uh huh.  Blame one group. 
 

in the government you MUST report any contact with people of foreign countries. Most importantly Russia. 
 

[RaoulDuke79]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

unlike the Republican precedent to make sure Democrats fail at every turn. 
 

Block all nominations for judges. 

 

yeah. Uh huh.  Blame one group. 
 

in the government you MUST report any contact with people of foreign countries. Most importantly Russia. 
 

Say what you will, but not let's pretend like one side is any better than the other. I hope your boy does a fine job. I'm going to  do my best to take the high road. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by RaoulDuke79

[Q-baby!]

1 hour ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Give me one good reason why I should be civil to people who've been nothing but arrogant, hateful pieces of garbage for the past four years?

 

Why is it when their guy wins, I'm supposed to just roll over and accept it, but when my guy wins, it's perfectly cool to concoct bull#### reasons to throw a tantrum and start an impeachment? FOR FOUR YEARS.

 

 

 

 

Easy snowflake. It’s not about feelings. 

[dma0034]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I generally agree with your take here but I cannot agree with the statement 

 

Fairness doctrine, U.S. communications policy (1949–87) formulated by the Federal Communications Commission

 

It made it so News Agencies had to spend equal time on both sides. That is why I mean, not censorship. 

[Tiberius]

10 hours ago, New Improved DC Tom said:

 

It really is that simple.  Biden got elected by a narrow margin because the alternative was Trump.  Just as Trump was elected by a narrow margin because the alternative was Hillary.  

 

Maybe - and I'm just spitballing here - both parties should start running real, actual, mature human beings, and stop this ridiculous race to the bottom.

Ummmm...voters, real people, pick the candidates. Republicans picked  Trump from a huge group of GOP primary candidates. 

[Tiberius]

3 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

How about no, guy who pushed russian collusion bull#### for four years?

And we will still be looking for answers on that. Trump and Russia isn’t just a political issue, it’s a national security issue 

[Backintheday544]

2 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Give me one good reason why I should be civil to people who've been nothing but arrogant, hateful pieces of garbage for the past four years?

 

Why is it when their guy wins, I'm supposed to just roll over and accept it, but when my guy wins, it's perfectly cool to concoct bull#### reasons to throw a tantrum and start an impeachment? FOR FOUR YEARS.

 

 

 

 

 

When Obama won,  A major Republican literally said “We’re going to do everything in our power to make him a one term President”

 

Lets not forget there were many Republican calls for Obama impeachment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama#Prisoner_swap

Edited November 7, 2020 by Backintheday544

[Tiberius]

8 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Whataboutism gets its name from the soviet tactic for dealing criticism of its many, many crimes.  Example

 

American: The soviet union deliberately starved 3 million ukrainians to death in the Holodomor, shot 16,000 Polish POWs in the Katyn Forest, and kept master pedophile Lavrenti Beria around as head of security.

 

Soviet: Whatabout the blacks you lynch?

 

In formal logic, this is called the "You Also!" Fallacy. Two people can do things that are bad.  One person can steal a piece of candy, another can set a stray cat on fire.  Just because both things are bad does not make them equally bad.

 

Why it works is it turns an argument about morality into an argument about hypocrisy.  Pointing out that someone is a hypocrite has everything to do with there character, and nothing to do with how true their statement is.  But being able to call your opponent a hypocrite using "whataboutism" puts them on the back foot and starts a new discussion that buries the original point.  Instead, you get a pissing contest where you defeat the argument by making your opponent look bad instead of refuting his facts or dissecting his reasoning.

 

 

Rhetoric is interesting

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

And hey, 

 

A. Maybe it will lead to as many indictments as the Mueller investigation. Unfortunately, the Biden campaign didn’t do anything that we know of to seek support of a foreign country.

 

B. Biden’s probably not as dumb as Trump to just give them grounds to impeach like Trump did. Don’t forget McConnell said we will do everything in our power to make Obama a one term President. Dems never did that to Trump.

 

C. That again was precedent set in 2008 with the Tea Party

 

You mean like when he publicly boasted about getting a prosecutor fired and threatened to withhold money if he didn't...and it actually happening?  Versus a call that was made and nothing happening from it?

 

 

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Rhetoric is interesting

I’m quite enjoying pointing out your blatant hypocrisy.  It’s nice seeing your racism come right out into the open. 

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Give me one good reason why I should be civil to people who've been nothing but arrogant, hateful pieces of garbage for the past four years?

 

Why is it when their guy wins, I'm supposed to just roll over and accept it, but when my guy wins, it's perfectly cool to concoct bull#### reasons to throw a tantrum and start an impeachment? FOR FOUR YEARS.

 

 

 

 

For the sake of our great nation.

 

Donal Trump spent his whole presidency tied up in impeachment proceedings.

 

Enough is enough...

[Backintheday544]

9 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

A. Not familiar with "whataboutism"...but fair is fair. Trump did say these things pre election which didn't require taxpayers to fund the any type of investigation 

 

B. No. Please elaborate. Im saying that if mental capacity is a factor,  you can't possibly believe Biden is sharper than Trump. Sure you may hate the guy and think he's a dick, but in your heart of hearts you can't possibly think Biden is nothing but a puppet. For Christ sakes, his own president didn't endorse him until there was no other option. 

 

C.  A few broken windows? This is just ☝ city. If this is how we deal with adversity then buckle up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/katu.com/amp/news/local/portland-police-plan-to-address-nightly-protests

A. See the other persons post about whataboutism is. It’s a former Soviet tactic that has been used a ton by Trump supporters and yourself there.

 

B. Yes I do. There’s plenty of crazy things Trump said. There’s plenty of dementia signs for Trump.  There’s girls who use his voiceover to look drunk. Plus he can barely lift a glass of water with 2 hands. 
 

C. Oh no $23,000,000. Just one of the tea party’s spats cost 0.25 percent of GDP: “0.25 percentage point reduction in the annualized G.D.P. growth rate in the fourth quarter and a reduction of about 120,000 private sector jobs in the first two weeks of October (estimates use indicators available through Oct. 12th).” https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/a-very-expensive-tea-party/

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I could find a few other Presidential actions I consider "more" dishonest.  Andrew Jackson screwing all the Indian tribes by hustling them out of their land and personally profiting from the sale of land tracts in place like Georgia.  Just to name one.  And isn't dishonesty a prerequisite for being a politician in the first place?  After all, every election you need to pretend to care about the voters.      

Jackson also had to deal with secession. Had he opposed Georgia, South Carolina might have had an ally in secession. Just saying. At the same time the Seneca were being moved away from Buffalo to New York’s southern tier 

4 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

I’m quite enjoying pointing out your blatant hypocrisy.  It’s nice seeing your racism come right out into the open. 

Thanks