Trump supporters...please show class. Don't be sore losers...

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

Nice thoughts. I trend like Skynrd in my beliefs.

And it is extremely difficult to come together when the last  4+ years have been filled with being labeled with every stupid, wrong-headed accusation in the book.  This just for discussing the policies of the Administration and not dismissing them out-of-hand because it was felt that there wasn't enough Trump hatred.  It started with deplorables, then we went through Putin loving traitors, then Nazis, racists, mysogynists, evil, stupid, cult members. No discussion was to be had.  None.  Couldn't legitimize Trump in any way.  That was the strategy.

 

Before I get accused, again, of all these things I will repeat that I never voted for Trump.  But to have a thread like this, calling for Trump supporters to be "good" losers (when the results of the election has not yet been certified in any single state in this Union) is absolutely laughable.  The riot plans and plywood was put up for Biden voters.   

 

Even now, anyone not hating Trump enough but just willing to wait and see what's going to happen is dismissed as a conspiracist. It was just fine when Hillary Clinton advised Joe Biden not to concede the election.  But when Trump exercises his RIGHT to contest the results; and when (I think) at least two states are doing automatic re-counts,  that's where the line gets drawn?

 

And even with all that said, it would be Republicans -- who have been shamelessly vilified; and Trump voters (over 70,000,000 of them) who will be the only ones mature enough to work together with the other side (with exceptions to this rule, obviously).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crossfire Hurricane and Mueller say hello.

 

He has a right to contest, but you have to have some basis for doing so.  Thus far there has been no logical basis aid out.  The only thing I can see held up being held up by the court is not counting certain provisional ballots in Pa; they would not affect the outcome.

 

Bottom line is thus:  the loser of this election claimed before the election the only way he can lose is by fraud and he cannot accept he got voted out.  He has a pre-conceived idea and is trying to make the outcome fit that.  That is not the way it works.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

He has a pre-conceived idea and is trying to make the outcome fit that.  That is not the way it works.

 

So pre-conceived he put together a voter fraud commision after the 2016 election that found...

 

nada 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I started responding yesterday and decided to take a minute and think it through. 

 

On a local level, I think we (us v them, whomever us or them is in this case) find unity quickly and decisively.  I think we each speak our peace, acknowledge the feelings of the other and go about our business.  We both probably walk away thinking nothing changed, but we had a nice dialogue. 

 

The tale of Reagan and O'Neill is oft-told and is inspirational.  However, it was a story that played out in the early 1980s.  In those days, the stench of McCarthyism was still hanging around as it had been only 30 years or so since the infamous Red Scare.  We were still only 40 years removed from WW2, not much more than a decade off of Vietnam, and the world was different.  Had Tip O'Neill accused RR of being a Gorbachev Stooge, had the FBI launched a bogus probe against ties to Red Russia, the electorate would have met these allegations with a very jaundiced eye.  It simply would not have flown.  Likewise, allegations near and far from politicians and the media that RR was a glorified Nazi would have caused a massive outcry from the men and women who lived and lost loved ones during that era.  In my humble opinion, the reason the word 'Nazi' is thrown around these days is because there are very, very few people left to stand up and say "Are you &^%$ing people crazy??". 

 

Bush and the American people's response to 9/11 was also inspirational.  Nothing like an attempt to destroy us all to bring folks together.  However, by the time W had done his time, let's not pretend that he was not excoriated by Obama/Biden as basically a war criminal who sent American soldiers to die in a trumped up war-for-oil scheme.  Magically, of course, once the election was done, nothing further comes of it.  In fact, now the W Bush family and the Hussein-Obama families are quite close. Imagine that--the war criminal and the man who called him out are buddies.  In fact, looky looky--now W is all about the decency of jb.  No concerns about jb's wandering mind, no concerns about his racial insensitivity of pawing of women in the era of #metoo (which makes sense, given that old man HW Bush liked to cop a feel like rich elitist old men are prone to do)--just "He's a decent man.".

 

I ask you OMF--given our similarities--did W Bush think Trump a Russian stooge or a victim of a take down?  Did he support FISA abuse, like one might assume a War-for-Oil president probably would?  Did he support the Comey approach to derailing a president?  Did he support Obama's arrogance as he suddenly, without notice, caused an international incident by expelling a couple dozen Ruskies in the closing days in office?  

 

Now, here we are.  Election chaos, a push by the media to steamroll a candidate into submission.  It would work on a Mitt Romney or Jeb W Bush--they are soft as butter and were born without nuts.  Trump, however, is different and has chosen at this point to see it through.  Whether that builds unity or not really depends on your point of view--- I think there is nothing more American than pursuit of legal remedy through the court system.  There is no downside, no real room for debate as it's a foundational principle of our country.  On the flip side, declaring someone prom king in some dopey media push is silly and divisive, mostly because it means nothing.  It's divisive, it's presumptuous and it's unnecessary. 

 

If Biden prevails, the strategy changes because it has to.  Unity has nothing to do with it--he didn't seek it out in the race, he didn't seek it out in the 4 years Trump was in office, and imo he offers nothing of value to me as a citizen. 

Thanks for responding.  Having media and other outlets declare the winner has been done for decades.  Having a peaceful changing of the guard with sufficient time for the incoming administration to come up to speed is not only traditional but essential.  

 

I want folks to come together, but I think you have to acknowledge this post-election period is more bizarre than any other than 2000 and the Hayes-Tilden election, and it is because the loser cannot accept it, and the members of his party and too scared for their political futures to tell him so.

 

Legally there are a couple states that will be recounted.  There is virtually no chance tens of thousands of vote differentials change.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Thanks for responding.  Having media and other outlets declare the winner has been done for decades.  Having a peaceful changing of the guard with sufficient time for the incoming administration to come up to speed is not only traditional but essential.  

 

I want folks to come together, but I think you have to acknowledge this post-election period is more bizarre than any other than 2000 and the Hayes-Tilden election, and it is because the loser cannot accept it, and the members of his party and too scared for their political futures to tell him so.

 

Legally there are a couple states that will be recounted.  There is virtually no chance tens of thousands of vote differentials change.

I do not acknowledge that, and most races are over before they start and the media does what the media does before, during and after an election.  I reject the notion that members of his party are too scared to say anything, in fact, the challenge for him is that political figures jump ship quickly based on the ebbs and flow of public opinion and what's in their own best interest.   

 

As to your second point, if you're correct, there should be no harm in pursuing legal remedy.  I'm uncertain as to why people have an issue with that notion.  As they said during Russiagate--if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry about your door being kicked in. 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I do not acknowledge that, and most races are over before they start and the media does what the media does before, during and after an election.  I reject the notion that members of his party are too scared to say anything, in fact, the challenge for him is that political figures jump ship quickly based on the ebbs and flow of public opinion and what's in their own best interest.   

 

As to your second point, if you're correct, there should be no harm in pursuing legal remedy.  I'm uncertain as to why people have an issue with that notion.  As they said during Russiagate--if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry about your door being kicked in. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good dialog.  Regarding the above, you have to have a reasonable claim of harm to pursue legal remedy.  There simply is no data to support that either in the historical review of electoral outcomes or from any of the states this time.  The only reason this is happening is because the incumbent claimed before the election that he could only lose by fraud, and he cannot accept that he lost.  

 

At some point the majority of the electorate that are in the middle with conservative and liberal thoughts on specific areas have to take the country back from the crazies at the periphery.

 

 

[dickleyjones]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

At some point the majority of the electorate that are in the middle with conservative and liberal thoughts on specific areas have to take the country back from the crazies at the periphery.

 

i am glad to see this written down. i hope you and your country succeeds.

[snafu]

3 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

So pre-conceived he put together a voter fraud commision after the 2016 election that found...

 

nada 

 

Crossfire Hurricane and Mueller say hello again.

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Okay so I gotta say... if we still had some posters here who left or were kicked out recently, this place would be up in arms.

 

I'm where many of those posters are and last night one of those posters (the one with whom I have an avatar bet I'm seeing the end of) just started losing it with me because I'm pretty much the lone liberal posting over there:

 

Seriously, go &#%$ yourself. I spent too long defending you. 

 

You're not an ally, you're not a friend, you're nothing but a very sad, very programmed person. Away with you. 

 

I'll be clear. I'm not your friend. I'm your enemy. &#%$ off now. 

 

Next time I tell you to &#%$ off, do it or be bannished. 

 

Spending the last three years proving to anyone unfortunate enough to read your stuff that you're not only a very dumb person, but completely unable to think for himself wasn't enough for you I guess. Now you're back to prove that not only are you dumb, you're an #######. 

 

 

All that was from the same poster now banned from here.

 

My point: Trump supporters won't EVER concede that Trump lost this election, much like Trump himself.

[snafu]

15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

All that was from the same poster now banned from here.

 

Why does anyone around here still care about this?

You want him banned from here again?

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Okay so I gotta say... if we still had some posters here who left or were kicked out recently, this place would be up in arms.

 

I'm where many of those posters are and last night one of those posters (the one with whom I have an avatar bet I'm seeing the end of) just started losing it with me because I'm pretty much the lone liberal posting over there:

 

Seriously, go &#%$ yourself. I spent too long defending you. 

 

You're not an ally, you're not a friend, you're nothing but a very sad, very programmed person. Away with you. 

 

I'll be clear. I'm not your friend. I'm your enemy. &#%$ off now. 

 

Next time I tell you to &#%$ off, do it or be bannished. 

 

Spending the last three years proving to anyone unfortunate enough to read your stuff that you're not only a very dumb person, but completely unable to think for himself wasn't enough for you I guess. Now you're back to prove that not only are you dumb, you're an #######. 

 

 

All that was from the same poster now banned from here.

 

My point: Trump supporters won't EVER concede that Trump lost this election, much like Trump himself.

Why would DJT concede he lost the election if he’s pursuing legal remedy?  Why would a supporter of his concede the election under these circumstances?  Did Al Gore concede early in the battle?  This is foolishness. 
 

You’re starting to sound an awful lot like Eddie Haskell.  “Hey guys, over there, that bad boy who got kicked out of gym class was really mean to me.”. 
 

Sack up.  

[transplantbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Why would DJT concede he lost the election if he’s pursuing legal remedy?  Why would a supporter of his concede the election under these circumstances?  Did Al Gore concede early in the battle?  This is foolishness. 
 

You’re starting to sound an awful lot like Eddie Haskell.  “Hey guys, over there, that bad boy who got kicked out of gym class was really mean to me.”. 
 

Sack up.  

 

He can do whatever he wants.  Al Gore vs. Bush was a 538 vote separation to decide an election.

 

This is already well over 50,000 votes and counting.

 

He's free to pursue the legal remedy of a recount, but recounts almost never overturn an election and the change in vote tallies is in the hundreds, not the tens of thousands when they do.

 

The claims of fraud and voter irregularities are something Trump and his supporters have been crying about since the election while completely disregarding things like the over 100,000 undelivered ballots by USPS, run by a political partisan and Trump Crony who had been working to undermine and slow down USPS in the months leading up to an election that was going to be largely mail in.

 

He can do whatever he wants legally to try to win the election, but when it comes to January 20th and none of those hail mary legal remedies worked, he will have to leave the White House as possibly the worst loser in American history.  Certainly the worst loser of a Presidential election.

 

One would expect nothing less of Donald Trump, though.

[TBBills]

So it isn't ok to call Biden the winner but it is ok for Trump to pretend like he won?

Yea awesome logic.

[Coach Tuesday]

“Pursuing his legal remedies” LOL.  His lawsuits are in search of evidence, not based on any evidence.  The “let’s let the legal process play out” crowd is killing me.  Let it play out for what?  Because Trump decided in his head that he was robbed?  You bring cases based on evidence, not in order to fish for evidence.  And, there is none.  You people and your Circus Barker.  Get a grip.

[transplantbillsfan]

11 minutes ago, TBBills said:

So it isn't ok to call Biden the winner but it is ok for Trump to pretend like he won?

Yea awesome logic.

 

They are actually calling this an attempted coup by Biden.

 

Just friggin nutty.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

He can do whatever he wants.  Al Gore vs. Bush was a 538 vote separation to decide an election.

 

This is already well over 50,000 votes and counting.

 

He's free to pursue the legal remedy of a recount, but recounts almost never overturn an election and the change in vote tallies is in the hundreds, not the tens of thousands when they do.

 

The claims of fraud and voter irregularities are something Trump and his supporters have been crying about since the election while completely disregarding things like the over 100,000 undelivered ballots by USPS, run by a political partisan and Trump Crony who had been working to undermine and slow down USPS in the months leading up to an election that was going to be largely mail in.

 

He can do whatever he wants legally to try to win the election, but when it comes to January 20th and none of those hail mary legal remedies worked, he will have to leave the White House as possibly the worst loser in American history.  Certainly the worst loser of a Presidential election.

 

One would expect nothing less of Donald Trump, though.

No one is crying, Transpy, except maybe you in your post above about mean treatment.  What’s that all about?  
 

Your style on the other board is deceitful at times.  You claim to support the right to pursue legal remedy and then repeat same tired “but..,” line over and over.  It’s obnoxious, and I think I know a bit about being obnoxious.  
 

Anyway, we’ll see. 

44 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Why does anyone around here still care about this?

You want him banned from here again?

 

 

Damn Snaf, that’s why you have to stay around.  The double ban is something I never thought of. 
 

This almost feels like Transpys safe place. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

No one is crying, Transpy, except maybe you in your post above about mean treatment.  What’s that all about?  
 

Your style on the other board is deceitful at times.  You claim to support the right to pursue legal remedy and then repeat same tired “but..,” line over and over.  It’s obnoxious, and I think I know a bit about being obnoxious.  
 

Anyway, we’ll see. 

Love your name on here, Freebird is one of my favorite songs.  But Coach Tuesday is right.  You can pursue legal remedies but you have to have evidence that harm has been done.  And there is none.  You don’t use lawsuits as a fishing expedition; judges laugh at it as the one did in Pa when the lawyer had to admit in court that there were in fact observers present.  

 

 Losing an election does not mean harm has been done, it means the people used their constitutional right to select someone else.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

No one is crying, Transpy, except maybe you in your post above about mean treatment.  What’s that all about?  

 

Crying?  I think it's pathetic the way DR is losing it.  Those posts were so unlike even him that it's almost funny.

 

I guess I'm a little disappointed he lacks integrity, but I'm not at all surprised.

 

Crying?  Maybe you're right.  I'm sad because I legitimately thought this election might force DR and others to consider that maybe they need to pull themselves out of these insane rabbit holes.  Instead they're making other rabbit holes to borough into.

 

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Your style on the other board is deceitful at times.  You claim to support the right to pursue legal remedy and then repeat same tired “but..,” line over and over.  It’s obnoxious, and I think I know a bit about being obnoxious.  
 

 

You can still legally pursue things like a recount and other court battles and maintain the precedent of allowing for a smooth and peaceful transition.

 

It's a national security issue to hold up a transition.  Just ask the 911 Commission re- George W Bush.

 

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Anyway, we’ll see. 

 

"We'll see."

 

I'm sorry, but this is what so many over there are saying, and it's obvious most of it is crap.  When it ends up there's no overturning of the results, DR and all the others (I hope not you, but I admit I question that) will cry foul by the courts or election officials overseeing the recounts or someone.

 

They will still claim Trump won the election. 

 

It's amazing to me that ANYONE could have thought Trump couldn't lose... but that's exactly what DR thought and it's why he lambasted me with his sad and pathetic vitriole.

[shoshin]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Good dialog.  Regarding the above, you have to have a reasonable claim of harm to pursue legal remedy.  There simply is no data to support that either in the historical review of electoral outcomes or from any of the states this time.  The only reason this is happening is because the incumbent claimed before the election that he could only lose by fraud, and he cannot accept that he lost.  

 

At some point the majority of the electorate that are in the middle with conservative and liberal thoughts on specific areas have to take the country back from the crazies at the periphery.

 

 

Yes x 2. The later point is the more salient one. 
 

 

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Crying?  I think it's pathetic the way DR is losing it.  Those posts were so unlike even him that it's almost funny.

 

I guess I'm a little disappointed he lacks integrity, but I'm not at all surprised.

 

Crying?  Maybe you're right.  I'm sad because I legitimately thought this election might force DR and others to consider that maybe they need to pull themselves out of these insane rabbit holes.  Instead they're making other rabbit holes to borough into.

 

 

You can still legally pursue things like a recount and other court battles and maintain the precedent of allowing for a smooth and peaceful transition.

 

It's a national security issue to hold up a transition.  Just ask the 911 Commission re- George W Bush.

 

 

"We'll see."

 

I'm sorry, but this is what so many over there are saying, and it's obvious most of it is crap.  When it ends up there's no overturning of the results, DR and all the others (I hope not you, but I admit I question that) will cry foul by the courts or election officials overseeing the recounts or someone.

 

They will still claim Trump won the election. 

 

It's amazing to me that ANYONE could have thought Trump couldn't lose... but that's exactly what DR thought and it's why he lambasted me with his sad and pathetic vitriole.

Honestly Transplant I thought that bet was funny and would of found it hilarious if he'd honored it. But realistically it isn't all that surprising that he won't. When you debate him on any of this stuff and strip away the layers of crap it comes down to the fact that he believes an elaborate conspiracy, so he's not going believe the results if they don't agree with him. And when you get to the point where you're calling him out on that conspiracy that is when he can tend to get nasty.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Warcodered

[shoshin]

Even FoxNews's website doesn't have fraud claims. There's no there there.