Jim Kubiak: How Bills QB Josh Allen figured out Patriots' amoeba defense

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Paywall.... can’t read

Fad Brown has no clue what he’s talking about

I guess we need to wait for his story to drop today to find out what he saw that kubiak didn’t 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

But Thad said it was his worst game of the year 

 

 

 

Well, I'll give him (Thad Brown) the benefit of the doubt until I read the article, but if you listen to Daboll's Monday presser it's clear he doesn't think so. 

Nothing about "plays he'd like back".  Daboll never throws Josh under the bus, he's always "I have to do better...we have a lot we can improve on, starting with me", but you can usually tell how he feels if you "read the tea leaves".  For example you could infer after the Jets game that there were some plays where Josh hadn't made the checks or calls that he was supposed to make given different looks, and Daboll was not pleased about it.

 

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Paywall.... can’t read

 

You can get a 3 month digital trial for $1.  Well worth it IMO, for Kubiak, Mark Gaughn, and Kelly the Dog

 

And just to be clear, Kubiak is in no way a Josh Homer.  He wants Josh to succeed, but he will nitpick him to death if he doesn't like something he sees.  Everything from decision making to the position of his elbow.

[Nihilarian]

Good stuff, thanks for posting.

 

All Bills fans want to see 300+ passing games along with all the Bills passing weapons being used, Beasley, Brown and Diggs. Not gonna happen all the time.

 

The Bills still have one position that needs a star upgrade and that is at TE. A guy like Kelce, Kittle. Hopefully in time.

[TPS]

Sorry, but the box score stats tell me he's regressing....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Well, I'll give him (Thad Brown) the benefit of the doubt until I read the article, but if you listen to Daboll's Monday presser it's clear he doesn't think so. 

Nothing about "plays he'd like back".  Daboll never throws Josh under the bus, he's always "I have to do better...we have a lot we can improve on, starting with me", but you can usually tell how he feels if you "read the tea leaves".  For example you could infer after the Jets game that there were some plays where Josh hadn't made the checks or calls that he was supposed to make given different looks, and Daboll was not pleased about it.

 

OK, I've read the article now and I think it's kind of weak sauce where his comments on Allen are concerned:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/the-bills-report/hitting-the-bills-eye-film-review-from-win-over-patriots/

 

He was not asked to do much intentionally and it was the right plan. Allen still made his share of plays. He had a couple of tricky throws on back to back plays during the Bills’ opening drive. He showed some of the usual toughness as well, releasing the ball just before taking a hit on a few occasions.

However, I still thought he was disappointing in the pocket. I tracked him running before it was necessary on four occasions. That’s a lot in only 22 called pass plays.

The blitz forced him into rash decisions that often would have allowed for more time. The third down throw to Brown in the second quarter was against a blitz the Bills picked up, but Allen gave himself no chance to find something else. The three and out in the third quarter with the Bills backed up inside their own 15 ended because Allen scrambled from a three-man rush that was being handled.

 

I'd need to understand more about how Thad Brown is assessing when and why Allen is leaving the pocket.  As Kubiak points out, all day Allen was patient in the pocket and willing to stand in and take hits to complete many throws. Allen needs to make a decision based on what he sees pre-snap; he can't be focused on the line post-snap to count hats and decide how much pressure he's actually facing, he needs to go with what he sees and "feels" at the snap and be looking downfield.  If he stayed in and got smacked by an unblocked blitzer, Brown would be dissing him for failing to understand there was an unblocked blitzer on the way.

This is what Kubiak says about what I think is the same play:

The Patriots had seven defenders at the line of scrimmage with only one player in a three-point-stance, an “amoeba” alignment. This made it difficult for Allen and the Bills’ offensive line to know who they were responsible for in protection. In blocking schemes, defensive players are counted and identified by position and by naming the “Mike” or middle linebacker. An example is a protection concept known as “big-on-big.” The five offensive linemen are required to account for the four defensive linemen plus the Mike. But if the offensive line doesn’t know who the defensive linemen are, because all the players are standing up, or who the Mike linebacker is, then they cannot know for certain who to account for. This was the purpose – and the genius of the Patriot’s “amoeba” defensive alignment. When most of the defensive players were standing at the line of scrimmage, it was virtually impossible to know who was who? The Patriots bluffed and only rushed four players, but the confusing defensive presentation had unsettled Allen. He initially wanted to get the ball to John Brown, who was pressed and defended by Jason McCourty in man coverage to Allen’s right. Because of the defensive pressure, Brown did not take his route deep enough and McCourty did an excellent job of knocking the football away.  Allen’s throw was accurate and on time, but the Patriots’ confusing and pressure scheme interfered with the Bills’ ability to execute.

 

Kubiak paints a different picture than Thad Brown's "the 3rd down throw was against a blitz the Bills picked up", and in theory, Brown covered in man is not a bad choice.

 

Another point is that Allen has shown willingness since last year to manipulate coverage downfield by what he does in the pocket, including leaving it.  If I recall correctly, there was a play against the Ravens where a couple of our local media criticized Allen for bailing from a pocket under "phantom pressure".  In his "Film Room" piece, Brett Kollman diagrammed the same play and showed how Allen left the pocket to manipulate the safety downfield.  Allen has also been suffering from batted balls (in the NYJ game and NE); another reason to leave the pocket is to gain a throwing lane (there was a short completion to Beasley IIRC that was an example of this).  Point being, there are reasons for a QB to bail out of the pocket other than pressure, and I'm not sure Brown is savvy enough to pick up on those.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Well, I'll give him (Thad Brown) the benefit of the doubt until I read the article, but if you listen to Daboll's Monday presser it's clear he doesn't think so. 

Nothing about "plays he'd like back".  Daboll never throws Josh under the bus, he's always "I have to do better...we have a lot we can improve on, starting with me", but you can usually tell how he feels if you "read the tea leaves".  For example you could infer after the Jets game that there were some plays where Josh hadn't made the checks or calls that he was supposed to make given different looks, and Daboll was not pleased about it.

 

I thought it might be of interest to repost my transcript of part of the Daboll presser here, since it's tedious to go through those things and capture:

4:45 Someone (not sure who) mentions talking to Josh about watching last year's Patriots games and how it wasn't fun because of all his mistakes.  "Now that you've watched yesterdays game...what were your impressions and where did he show some improvement?"  "Yeah, I thought he did a good job.  He made particular checks out there that were critical at critical times in the game..but everybody chipped in to make that better, too....They're a formidable opponent any time you play them, we just made a few more plays at the end of the game than they did."

7:05 Dan Fetes asks "How proud are you of Josh over these last few games?  He's a guy that likes to be aggressive, wants to throw the ball downfield, he said "Touchdowns first". ...It hasn't been sexy on the stat sheet but how proud are you of the discipline he's shown the last few weeks?"  "I don't know that proud is the word.  I expect that from him.  I see how hard he works in practice, all the meetings that he goes through with Ken and those guys...His job is to try to help us win games, any way he can.  Certainly, QBs love to have 400 yd passing games or 350 yds and 4 touchdowns and not hand it off 38 times.  The thing that you appreciate about the Leader of your football team is that whatever we need to do to win, he's All In for. So...That's what I expect from him."

 

Yeah, I don't care what he said here: Daboll is proud of Josh.  Josh has come a long way. 

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

It still feels like every Patriots game has 1 or 2 ghost penalties that negate a TD. Its what makes the Patriots game so enjoyable.

 

I could see a P*ts fan thinking that.

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did you read the article?

 

Read?  LOL!

[Doc]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

But Thad said it was his worst game of the year 

 

 

 

Who?

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, I've read the article now and I think it's kind of weak sauce where his comments on Allen are concerned:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/the-bills-report/hitting-the-bills-eye-film-review-from-win-over-patriots/

 

He was not asked to do much intentionally and it was the right plan. Allen still made his share of plays. He had a couple of tricky throws on back to back plays during the Bills’ opening drive. He showed some of the usual toughness as well, releasing the ball just before taking a hit on a few occasions.

However, I still thought he was disappointing in the pocket. I tracked him running before it was necessary on four occasions. That’s a lot in only 22 called pass plays.

The blitz forced him into rash decisions that often would have allowed for more time. The third down throw to Brown in the second quarter was against a blitz the Bills picked up, but Allen gave himself no chance to find something else. The three and out in the third quarter with the Bills backed up inside their own 15 ended because Allen scrambled from a three-man rush that was being handled.

 

I'd need to understand more about how Thad Brown is assessing when and why Allen is leaving the pocket.  As Kubiak points out, all day Allen was patient in the pocket and willing to stand in and take hits to complete many throws. As Kubiak points out, the Patriots D "bluffing" 6 or 7 rushers creates confusion; the unstated consequence is that Allen needs to make a decision based on what he sees pre-snap; he can't be focused on the line post-snap to count hats and decide how much pressure he's actually facing, he needs to go with what he sees and "feels" at the snap and be looking downfield.  If he stayed in and got smacked by an unblocked blitzer, Brown would be dissing him for failing to understand there was an unblocked blitzer on the way.

This is what Kubiak says about what I think is the same play:

The Patriots had seven defenders at the line of scrimmage with only one player in a three-point-stance, an “amoeba” alignment. This made it difficult for Allen and the Bills’ offensive line to know who they were responsible for in protection. In blocking schemes, defensive players are counted and identified by position and by naming the “Mike” or middle linebacker. An example is a protection concept known as “big-on-big.” The five offensive linemen are required to account for the four defensive linemen plus the Mike. But if the offensive line doesn’t know who the defensive linemen are, because all the players are standing up, or who the Mike linebacker is, then they cannot know for certain who to account for. This was the purpose – and the genius of the Patriot’s “amoeba” defensive alignment. When most of the defensive players were standing at the line of scrimmage, it was virtually impossible to know who was who? The Patriots bluffed and only rushed four players, but the confusing defensive presentation had unsettled Allen. He initially wanted to get the ball to John Brown, who was pressed and defended by Jason McCourty in man coverage to Allen’s right. Because of the defensive pressure, Brown did not take his route deep enough and McCourty did an excellent job of knocking the football away.  Allen’s throw was accurate and on time, but the Patriots’ confusing and pressure scheme interfered with the Bills’ ability to execute.

 

Kubiak paints a different picture than Thad Brown's "the 3rd down throw was against a blitz the Bills picked up", and in theory, Brown covered in man is not a bad choice.

 

Another point is that Allen has shown willingness since last year to manipulate coverage downfield by what he does in the pocket, including leaving it.  If I recall correctly, there was a play against the Ravens where a couple of our local media criticized Allen for bailing from a pocket under "phantom pressure".  In his "Film Room" piece, Brett Kollman diagrammed the same play and showed how Allen left the pocket to manipulate the safety downfield.  Allen has also been suffering from batted balls (in the NYJ game and NE); another reason to leave the pocket is to gain a throwing lane (there was a short completion to Beasley IIRC that was an example of this).  Point being, there are reasons for a QB to bail out of the pocket other than pressure, and I'm not sure Brown is savvy enough to pick up on those.

 

 

 

Allen leaves the pocket and it looks early sometimes because he has an internal clock in his head. Among the other reasons you pointed out. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Scott7975

[benderbender]

5 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Is it me or does Tyrod Taylor seem like so long ago. 

Tyrod doesn’t have a thread every week to keep his memory alive like other former QBs who were even longer ago.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 11/4/2020 at 6:56 AM, Kwai San said:

As much as the Allen haters do not want to admit.....the lights are coming on - he is FINALLY taking what is given to him.....

 

Go BILLS!!!

josh is really not taking many risks. Of his INTs,

 

the one that wasn’t actually an INT was a risky throw, but it did hit Kroft perfectly in tight coverage who seemed to come down with it.
 

Andre Robert one was not a bad or risky throw to a quality WR

 

the one vs pats was on Diggs we think. I don’t remember the ball being in harms way any other time during the game. 

 

So really of his two aweful ints, one was late game prayer down 9 with a minute left and the other was a pretty bad One vs titans. 
 

two bad INTs on 277 attempts is a massive move upward. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Big Turk]

12 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yeah seemed like the Pats D wasn't in 3 pt stances very much. They were all standing around the LOS trying to confuse him. The 1 INT was just he and Diggs not being on the same page. Not big numbers from Allen but I thought he did pretty solid.

 

And the excellent throw to Davis for a TD that was dropped didn't help.

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, I've read the article now and I think it's kind of weak sauce where his comments on Allen are concerned:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/the-bills-report/hitting-the-bills-eye-film-review-from-win-over-patriots/

 

He was not asked to do much intentionally and it was the right plan. Allen still made his share of plays. He had a couple of tricky throws on back to back plays during the Bills’ opening drive. He showed some of the usual toughness as well, releasing the ball just before taking a hit on a few occasions.

However, I still thought he was disappointing in the pocket. I tracked him running before it was necessary on four occasions. That’s a lot in only 22 called pass plays.

The blitz forced him into rash decisions that often would have allowed for more time. The third down throw to Brown in the second quarter was against a blitz the Bills picked up, but Allen gave himself no chance to find something else. The three and out in the third quarter with the Bills backed up inside their own 15 ended because Allen scrambled from a three-man rush that was being handled.

 

I'd need to understand more about how Thad Brown is assessing when and why Allen is leaving the pocket.  As Kubiak points out, all day Allen was patient in the pocket and willing to stand in and take hits to complete many throws. Allen needs to make a decision based on what he sees pre-snap; he can't be focused on the line post-snap to count hats and decide how much pressure he's actually facing, he needs to go with what he sees and "feels" at the snap and be looking downfield.  If he stayed in and got smacked by an unblocked blitzer, Brown would be dissing him for failing to understand there was an unblocked blitzer on the way.

This is what Kubiak says about what I think is the same play:

The Patriots had seven defenders at the line of scrimmage with only one player in a three-point-stance, an “amoeba” alignment. This made it difficult for Allen and the Bills’ offensive line to know who they were responsible for in protection. In blocking schemes, defensive players are counted and identified by position and by naming the “Mike” or middle linebacker. An example is a protection concept known as “big-on-big.” The five offensive linemen are required to account for the four defensive linemen plus the Mike. But if the offensive line doesn’t know who the defensive linemen are, because all the players are standing up, or who the Mike linebacker is, then they cannot know for certain who to account for. This was the purpose – and the genius of the Patriot’s “amoeba” defensive alignment. When most of the defensive players were standing at the line of scrimmage, it was virtually impossible to know who was who? The Patriots bluffed and only rushed four players, but the confusing defensive presentation had unsettled Allen. He initially wanted to get the ball to John Brown, who was pressed and defended by Jason McCourty in man coverage to Allen’s right. Because of the defensive pressure, Brown did not take his route deep enough and McCourty did an excellent job of knocking the football away.  Allen’s throw was accurate and on time, but the Patriots’ confusing and pressure scheme interfered with the Bills’ ability to execute.

 

Kubiak paints a different picture than Thad Brown's "the 3rd down throw was against a blitz the Bills picked up", and in theory, Brown covered in man is not a bad choice.

 

Another point is that Allen has shown willingness since last year to manipulate coverage downfield by what he does in the pocket, including leaving it.  If I recall correctly, there was a play against the Ravens where a couple of our local media criticized Allen for bailing from a pocket under "phantom pressure".  In his "Film Room" piece, Brett Kollman diagrammed the same play and showed how Allen left the pocket to manipulate the safety downfield.  Allen has also been suffering from batted balls (in the NYJ game and NE); another reason to leave the pocket is to gain a throwing lane (there was a short completion to Beasley IIRC that was an example of this).  Point being, there are reasons for a QB to bail out of the pocket other than pressure, and I'm not sure Brown is savvy enough to pick up on those.

 

 

 

 

That is because one person knows what they are talking about in Kubiak and the other only thinks they do but doesn't in Brown...

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I thought it was one of Allen’s best games despite the modest stat line.  His vision, decision-making and understanding which plays to check into and out of continue to improve.

Probably true. Gabe should've caught that TD and the int. was just miscommunication. Josh still has things to learn and improve on, but he's ours and we deserve him.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

But Thad said it was his worst game of the year 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This is a great read:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/jim-kubiak-how-bills-qb-josh-allen-figured-out-patriots-amoeba-defense/article_1bb4c490-1d5d-11eb-ac9a-3f927b40a7e6.html

 

I recommend reading his entire breakdown if you have the time. It includes some all-22 footage. His conclusions:

 

 

 

Seems like Belichick did everything he could to confuse Allen and Allen didn't take the bait. Really good signs of progress here.

 

 

Best part of this season is watching Allen grow into a really good QB.

 

Worst part is seeing him not having the supporting cast on either side of the ball to allow him to continue to blow up the squatty defenses he is having to deal with.

 

Diggs was a nice addition but they need to keep stacking playmakers like the Steelers have done for Big Ben the last decade.

 

 

[TigerJ]

14 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yeah seemed like the Pats D wasn't in 3 pt stances very much. They were all standing around the LOS trying to confuse him. The 1 INT was just he and Diggs not being on the same page. Not big numbers from Allen but I thought he did pretty solid.

Belichick has pulled that little trick before.  I can't recall if EJ Manuel was the QB, or somebody else, but the Bills were completely befuddled.  I think he used it out of a sense of desperation about where the Patriots season is headed.  The fact that Allen and the Bills handled it, is a sign that this is a much better Bills team.  They will, hopefully, continue to be less vulnerable to Belichick's "creativity" in the future.

[thenorthremembers]

7 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Is it me or does Tyrod Taylor seem like so long ago. 

Only because watching him play Quarterback made games feel7 hours long.  No lie after the Jacksonville playoff game I had to dust cobwebs off my shoulders.

15 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Belichick has pulled that little trick before.  I can't recall if EJ Manuel was the QB, or somebody else, but the Bills were completely befuddled.  I think he used it out of a sense of desperation about where the Patriots season is headed.  The fact that Allen and the Bills handled it, is a sign that this is a much better Bills team.  They will, hopefully, continue to be less vulnerable to Belichick's "creativity" in the future.

He used it against Tyrod as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

Stop.  That was a bad game for Allen. He has improved so much this year (more than I ever expected) but to try and say that was anything more than a meh game is so disingenuous.  That was a JV Pats defense without like 5 starters including the DPOY.

 

we won but it would be nice if some fans could be objective.  The Bills lose that game to any non bad team.  At this point of his career, it’s actually insulting to say that wasn’t a bad game.  He has set the bar much higher so let’s stop treating him like he is still a rookie from Wyoming. 

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Stop.  That was a bad game for Allen. He has improved so much this year (more than I ever expected) but to try and say that was anything more than a meh game is so disingenuous.  That was a JV Pats defense without like 5 starters including the DPOY.

 

we won but it would be nice if some fans could be objective.  The Bills lose that game to any non bad team.  At this point of his career, it’s actually insulting to say that wasn’t a bad game.  He has set the bar much higher so let’s stop treating him like he is still a rookie from Wyoming. 

 

How was it a bad game?  

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Stop.  That was a bad game for Allen. He has improved so much this year (more than I ever expected) but to try and say that was anything more than a meh game is so disingenuous.  That was a JV Pats defense without like 5 starters including the DPOY.

 

we won but it would be nice if some fans could be objective.  The Bills lose that game to any non bad team.  At this point of his career, it’s actually insulting to say that wasn’t a bad game.  He has set the bar much higher so let’s stop treating him like he is still a rookie from Wyoming. 

 

On 11/4/2020 at 8:37 AM, HappyDays said:

 

Did you read the article?