Thurman#1 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, frostbitmic said: For the most part this entire defense has been pretty bad this season other than the 2nd half against the Jests. What changed in the 2nd half ? ... Did McCoach take over the play calling duties over Frasier ? ... It's happened before. I'm looking forward to the game Sunday to see if they continue to play how they finished up the Jests game or if they go back to looking conservative and at best, bland. What happened against the Jets is Milano and Edmunds both played a lot in the second half. This defense always plays better when these guys are next to each other. 1
billsfan89 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde's salary in 2021 is fairly reasonable for his level of play currently. I think he stays in 2021 and the team drafts in round 3 or 4 his replacement long term. But there is no reason to move off of him just yet. His play might be declining but his salary is still good and he is still a starting caliber player. 1
Big Turk Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, NoSaint said: restructure as in extension and commit to more years or do you mean ask him to easily take a pay cut? I don't see why they would ask him to take a pay cut. He is still a good player. They could add some years and do some finagling. Next year might be tough depending on the cap number tho...
Thurman#1 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, dneveu said: The cap savings is 4.5 million. It isn't even a lot of space. Don't get a comp pick either. You're sacrificing continuity on the back end for... the space to sign danny shelton or haha clinton-dix. Why is it milano or hyde? Why not milano or brown, or milano or butler? I think the cap saving is even slightly less than that. $4.05 M salary $1.0 M roster bonus $100K workout bonus ... so we'd get out of paying $5.15M, but ... We'd be hit with $1.6 M in dead money. So the total saved would be $3.65 M ... ... unless he collects his contractual Pro Bowl bonus of $400K, and if he makes the Pro Bowl he'll have very easily been worth $4.05 M You're right that $3.65M is not a lot of space and that we wouldn't get a comp pick, and that we would almost certainly have to spend yet more money to bring in an FA to replace him. The OP doesn't make any real sense. Edited October 30, 2020 by Thurman#1 1
Mango Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, corta765 said: I was taking a look today at Spotrac and what Hyde's dead cap hit is for 2021. Turns out if we cut him next season we only end up owing 1.6 mil of his 6.5 mil deal. Hyde was a foundation guy I wanted when he was a FA in 2017 and his first two seasons he was easily one of the Bills best players and the pro bowl was well earned in 2017. The last season and half though his play has regressed to the point I would consider getting rid of him. Last season his big plays were limited and he was responsible for missing coverage on the big TD Baltimore had. For how good last years D was I felt Hyde was more along for the ride then being a big contributor. This season he has been a trainwreck missing plays left and right while Poyer has covered his mistakes all over. Safety is a spot you can draft or fill pretty cheap and the Bills have found good safeties in the later rounds of the draft. Aaron Williams we converted to safety and was tracking to be a pro bowler before injuries wrecked his career. I would rather see the Bills cut Hyde and Murphy to use for cap space to sign a better pass rusher or LB to help next season. Micah has done a fine job helping to bring the Bills to a new level, but we can get ahead of his regression especially considering he will be 30 next year also. When you talk about starters like Hyde (not necessarily back ups like Murphy) you should also ask: Who is his direct replacement? What does his replacement cost? Money and production? Who do we actually sign/go after with that money? What do we pay them? Because when we cut Hyde we are now missing a safety. So for at least a period of time we have a hole at safety, and a weakness at LB and Edge. IMO if we aren’t positive we upgrade those positions, it’s not worth the $5M difference between keeping him and letting him go. 1
ogham26 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 far more likely we see an extension similar to what hughes did
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, dneveu said: The cap savings is 4.5 million. It isn't even a lot of space. Don't get a comp pick either. You're sacrificing continuity on the back end for... the space to sign danny shelton or haha clinton-dix. Why is it milano or hyde? Why not milano or brown, or milano or butler? Butler is a sure cut anyway. His is a 1 year deal masquerading as a 2 year deal. 1 1
ColoradoBills Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, ogham26 said: far more likely we see an extension similar to what hughes did It's more likely than Hyde getting cut! If Beane/McDermott wanted to move on from Hyde he would be probably easy to trade and get at LEAST a 6th round if not higher pick. If he plays next year and he is left to walk to FA the following year he will get signed and maybe bring back the same type of comp pick. If I was still a betting man I pick the last option as the most likely to happen.
Buffalo716 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, corta765 said: I was taking a look today at Spotrac and what Hyde's dead cap hit is for 2021. Turns out if we cut him next season we only end up owing 1.6 mil of his 6.5 mil deal. Hyde was a foundation guy I wanted when he was a FA in 2017 and his first two seasons he was easily one of the Bills best players and the pro bowl was well earned in 2017. The last season and half though his play has regressed to the point I would consider getting rid of him. Last season his big plays were limited and he was responsible for missing coverage on the big TD Baltimore had. For how good last years D was I felt Hyde was more along for the ride then being a big contributor. This season he has been a trainwreck missing plays left and right while Poyer has covered his mistakes all over. Safety is a spot you can draft or fill pretty cheap and the Bills have found good safeties in the later rounds of the draft. Aaron Williams we converted to safety and was tracking to be a pro bowler before injuries wrecked his career. I would rather see the Bills cut Hyde and Murphy to use for cap space to sign a better pass rusher or LB to help next season. Micah has done a fine job helping to bring the Bills to a new level, but we can get ahead of his regression especially considering he will be 30 next year also. Aaron Williams was one of the first picks of the second round He wasnt a late round pick Most scouts including myself also had him as a safety, but the bills got cute trying to put him at corner. He was my #1 safety in the class
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Butler is a sure cut anyway. His is a 1 year deal masquerading as a 2 year deal. I think he's one to watch for a potential second half breakthrough. He was totally invisible early in the year and I think he has shown that he doesn't have much interest in being their 340# double-team drawing 1T that they have lacked since trading Dareus.......but Butler does have the potential to make plays from the 3T.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Aaron Williams was one of the first picks of the second round He wasnt a late round pick Most scouts including myself also had him as a safety, but the bills got cute trying to put him at corner. He was my #1 safety in the class Yeah I remember at the time there were metrics that had Aaron Williams rated as the worst starting CB in the league. And he was scrapping with critical fans online like crazy. Moved him to safety........where he always belonged.........and he was a very good player and became a fan favorite. They are going to have to replace Hyde..........if not next year, then the following..........and it shouldn't be mission impossible. In the two offseason prior to Beane's anointing as GM.......Doug Whaley and McD scored big with dirt cheap defensive UFA's Lorax and Zach Brown and Hyde and Poyer..........Beane just needs to get some of his own. He's not gotten good value at all in UFA his first few offseasons.
RyanC883 Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Hebert19 said: I too can see a restructure and extension with a limited cap hit in 2022 to open up cutting him then. Draft a safety for him to groom we def need to draft a safety. Thin in the secondary when it comes to depth.
MarlinTheMagician Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde is always the one McDermott talks to on the sidelines. We need to draft an off-corner #1, get some quality depth at LB and re-sign Milano. We do that I think our D will be back at the top of the league. Oh, and get Star or another tub of goo to clog the run. No need to ditch Hyde, maybe a modest restructure.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 I disagree with OP assessment that Hyde's play has declined significantly. I do agree with OP that in general teams have elected to move on from highly paid safeties and replacing them with young talent. That said they need to replace or extend multiple front 7 defenders and creating another hole on the defense makes little sense. I don't see that his play has dropped enough to warrant a change but at $6M a restructure or cut is not out of the realm of possibility. 1
blacklabel Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde is a leader and a guy that younger players look up to. The amount of times I've seen him slowly get to his feet after a play this season leads me to believe he's playing through some injuries. I think a lot of guys are doing that right now. I can't see him being cut outright but maybe a restructured deal and more of a rotational role on the field if they find a better option to start over him.
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think he's one to watch for a potential second half breakthrough. He was totally invisible early in the year and I think he has shown that he doesn't have much interest in being their 340# double-team drawing 1T that they have lacked since trading Dareus.......but Butler does have the potential to make plays from the 3T. Agree. I think they signed him to play 3T but he has done both in Carolina so when Star opted out they tried him at 1T. As you say he showed no interest in doing that. The thing is he has more traffic to get past at 3T with Ed O and Jefferson.
Cubanmist Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 I would give him a 1 year deal, but draft a safety. Gotta be smart with the CAP.
BobbyC81 Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 11 hours ago, warrior9 said: I tend to agree. I don't think he's been as bad as some people are suggesting. Poor LB play and DL play can absolutely affect DB's. I think that's what were seeing here, a little bit. The DB's look exposed more often when LB's are out of position. Coverage of tight ends has been poor this season. Some of that may go to Milano and Edmunds both missing time but a strong safety can also have that responsibility. Hyde also used to provide big hits. Maybe the first one he’s had, in this last game, ended up a penalty. Still, he hasn’t been totally useless.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, ColeB said: Coverage of tight ends has been poor this season. Some of that may go to Milano and Edmunds both missing time but a strong safety can also have that responsibility. Hyde also used to provide big hits. Maybe the first one he’s had, in this last game, ended up a penalty. Still, he hasn’t been totally useless. People read this, and it sounds like it's written kind of knowledgably Problem: while one of the strengths of the Poyer-Hyde SS-FS duo is that they can play interchangeable roles - Poyer is usually the strong safety. Hyde is usually the free safety. And that doesn't even get into the Bills love of the 4-2-5 defense and who commonly has responsibility for the TE there C'mon man: if you can't tell who's playing FS and who's playing SS, your pronouncements about who is "totally useless" aren't....totally useful. 6 hours ago, blacklabel said: Hyde is a leader and a guy that younger players look up to. The amount of times I've seen him slowly get to his feet after a play this season leads me to believe he's playing through some injuries. I think a lot of guys are doing that right now. I can't see him being cut outright but maybe a restructured deal and more of a rotational role on the field if they find a better option to start over him. I think there's no question. There were a couple games where he left for a while with an injury, got taped or something and came right back out. He laughs it off in press availabilities "it's football, I'm fine". If the Bills find a better option, GREAT! But until they do, why cut a guy and leave a hole? We have enough holes. 1
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