Hot Take - Don’t pay Qbs

[C.Biscuit97]

You shouldn’t overpay Qbs.  Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but look at the league now.  Lamar won a MVP in his 2nd season.  So did Mahomes. Joe Burrow, a good but not generational prospect, is on pass for 4,600 yards as a rookie!  Justin Herbert, who no one thought was close to an elite prospect, is at pace that if he started 16 games, he would throw for 5,000 yards.

 

fact is Qbs are completely overpaid and qb’s 2nd contracts kill your ability to build a roster.  It has never been easier to pay qb in the NFL and college guys translate easier than ever.  Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (Seattle kinda sucks minus Wilson but he carries the team; Mahomes; Brady; Rodgers) but too many replaceable guys get paid too much.  Also if teams stopped handing out monster to Deals to average talents like Goff and Tannehill (during Miami), it would bring the salaries down.  
 

And for the record, I’m totally down with every player getting every cent they can.  But these contracts murder franchises.  

[longtimebillsfan]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You shouldn’t overpay Qbs.  Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but look at the league now.  Lamar won a MVP in his 2nd season.  So did Mahomes. Joe Burrow, a good but not generational prospect, is on pass for 4,600 yards as a rookie!  Justin Herbert, who no one thought was close to an elite prospect, is at pace that if he started 16 games, he would throw for 5,000 yards.

 

fact is Qbs are completely overpaid and qb’s 2nd contracts kill your ability to build a roster.  It has never been easier to pay qb in the NFL and college guys translate easier than ever.  Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (Seattle kinda sucks minus Wilson but he carries the team; Mahomes; Brady; Rodgers) but too many replaceable guys get paid too much.  Also if teams stopped handing out monster to Deals to average talents like Goff and Tannehill (during Miami), it would bring the salaries down.  
 

And for the record, I’m totally down with every player getting every cent they can.  But these contracts murder franchises.  

From an objective standpoint, I agree with you.  From a Bills fan view point....it took us 22 years to find a decent replacement to Jimbo!!!!!!  Give me a break!  It is not that easy to find a new franchise quarterback.

Edited October 30, 2020 by longtimebillsfan

[KD in CA]

Easy to give a big second contract to a QB once he's established himself in the top group, like Mahomes.

 

The trap is when you have a good, not great QB like Goff or Wentz.  That's when you kill your roster because those guys don't elevate the team.

[Richard Noggin]

So...to summarize:

 

Don't overpay mediocre quarterbacks (like Tannehill and Goff, except that Tannehill and Goff are playing awesome football and their teams are doing well). Pay elite quarterbacks (like Brady, Rodgers, and Mahomes, obviously). 

 

So it's as simple as just having a top-10 pick and hitting on one of the two good QBs each year in the draft, and unless the guy is elite move on after the rookie deal (with that valuable top-10 or top-5 or top-2 pick that every team has when they need a QB).

 

 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, KD in CA said:

Easy to give a big second contract to a QB once he's established himself in the top group, like Mahomes.

 

The trap is when you have a good, not great QB like Goff or Wentz.  That's when you kill your roster because those guys don't elevate the team.

Yup.  Similar to where the cowboys are with dak. He’s better than wentz and goff but is he worth spending 35+ mill a year?  I’d pass and focus my attention on acquiring an elite QB.  Acquiring one is easier said than done, but wallowing around 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every year is the worst place a team can be imo.  I’d rather move on from a non elite QB if the want 25 mill+,
 

[whatdrought]

I think the contracts are ridiculous, but I’m not sure there’s an alternative... rarely does a team chose not to pay and find success... look at Washington. (Not that Minnesota has had great luck having payed Cousins, but better than the Skins.) 

 

Also, Burrow may not have been a generational prospect from a talent perspective (he’s physically limited) - but he did have the best College QB season of all time. So him being a stud isn’t completely unexpected. 

[nucci]

Don't overpay anyone

[formerlyofCtown]

As long as the NFL allows holding the way they are Rookies will definitely do better.  All QBs will.

[Don Otreply]

Being that the entire league is a monopoly, they certainly can price fix at any position if they feel inclined to... buy the owners have money coming out the wahzoo, so there is little to no motivation to do so. 

[formerlyofCtown]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yup.  Similar to where the cowboys are with dak. He’s better than wentz and goff but is he worth spending 35+ mill a year?  I’d pass and focus my attention on acquiring an elite QB.  Acquiring one is easier said than done, but wallowing around 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every year is the worst place a team can be imo.  I’d rather move on from a non elite QB if the want 25 mill+,
 

Elite QBs get 40-50 now.

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Being that the entire league is a monopoly, they certainly can price fix at any position if they feel inclined to... buy the owners have money coming out the wahzoo, so there is little to no motivation to do so. 

I've always wanted a player maximum installed in the cap.  The QBs would cry but they are outnumbered union wise.  $25 mil cap wouldn't bother the rest of the players at all.  It means they would see more $$$.

Edited October 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Elite QBs get 40-50 now.

I've always wanted a player maximum installed in the cap.

Yeah, I realize that.....I’d pay them 40-50.  Most of the non elite, I’d rather not even pay 25.

Edited October 29, 2020 by NewEra

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Elite QBs get 40-50 now.

I've always wanted a player maximum installed in the cap.

I here you, but on the other hand, I have to admit, I love it when players take advantage of billionaires and take tens of millions of dollars from them and milk them for years,  this happens a lot, and it just shows how much money the owners have that it doesn’t seem to even bother them....

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You shouldn’t overpay Qbs.  Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but look at the league now.  Lamar won a MVP in his 2nd season.  So did Mahomes. Joe Burrow, a good but not generational prospect, is on pass for 4,600 yards as a rookie!  Justin Herbert, who no one thought was close to an elite prospect, is at pace that if he started 16 games, he would throw for 5,000 yards.

 

fact is Qbs are completely overpaid and qb’s 2nd contracts kill your ability to build a roster.  It has never been easier to pay qb in the NFL and college guys translate easier than ever.  Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (Seattle kinda sucks minus Wilson but he carries the team; Mahomes; Brady; Rodgers) but too many replaceable guys get paid too much.  Also if teams stopped handing out monster to Deals to average talents like Goff and Tannehill (during Miami), it would bring the salaries down.  
 

And for the record, I’m totally down with every player getting every cent they can.  But these contracts murder franchises.  

 

So basically, if he's good enough, you can overpay.  If he's not good enough, don't overpay.  That goes with every position.

[GoBills808]

Besides Wilson and Rodgers I would argue there is no QB doing more to carry his team right now than Allen

[Nextmanup]

I would argue just the opposite; once you find a guy who can get the job done at the QB position (there might be 8 or 10 of those guys in the entire league, and that's generous), give him everything.

 

Fill in the pieces all around him with whatever is available.

 

 

[WhoTom]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I here you, but on the other hand, I have to admit, I love it when players take advantage of billionaires and take tens of millions of dollars from them and milk them for years,  this happens a lot, and it just shows how much money the owners have that it doesn’t seem to even bother them....

 

All teams spend pretty close to the cap, so a QB making tons of money isn't really milking the owner - he's just taking a bigger piece of the pie and leaving less for his teammates.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Easy to give a big second contract to a QB once he's established himself in the top group, like Mahomes.

 

The trap is when you have a good, not great QB like Goff or Wentz.  That's when you kill your roster because those guys don't elevate the team.

 

This.  And this was a big issue I had with what Dak was asking for.  If you put Rodgers, Wilson, or Mahomes on the cowboys last year, there is a 0% chance the Cowboys miss the playoffs.  If you put any of those 3 guys on the Cowboys this year, there is 0% chance they win only 1 game (over the games Dak played and finished).  

 

But Dak was asking for money to be paid like them or more than some of them.  

 

So for me...the only ones I pay massive money to are the ones who have proven they can elevate their team above their rosters weaknesses.  Seattle has a bad defense, yet they are succeeding.  GB has a marginal defense, yet they are succeeding.  I want to see a guy who can put that team on their back and will them to wins if I am going to invest a cap choking amount of money into them.  Because I already know, that contract will be an anchor on the cap and make it harder to balance the roster out.  So that QB better be able to elevate the team IMO.

 

But...the flip side...I get the quandary that teams are in.  Do you let a guy putting up high personal stats who is young or in there prime walk because they want to be paid with the elite.  Its not easy to find another QB either.  So teams too often cave and pay the demands.  Washington and Cousins is one of the few times I can think of where they bit the bullet and didn't over pay a QB (Cousins).  And IMO it was the right move.  

 

Now that doesn't mean it will always be the right move.  Doesn't mean the right move is to let Dak walk.  But Dallas compounded the issue with Dak when it grossly overpaid Cooper after shelling out a massive contract to Zeke already.  Then after all that, they decided to draft a WR in the first to a team who had a very good WR group already.  All of those decisions make the Dak one that much harder given what a shambles the rest of the roster is after paying for all that offense.  

 

So one could ask the question:  Is it better to over pay a QB and stay on a path of middling team, 7 to 9 wins every year, and missing on premium draft pick slots?  Where your future improving is mostly tied to finding gems in the draft at cheaper contracts.  Or is it better to not over pay, even if it means having a down year or two, to then focus on finding a young talented QB on a rookie deal for 5 years at the top of the draft?  If you miss on that QB it will further set your team back more years.  So its a risk as well.  

 

I think you can make a case either way personally, but I think I would as a GM build through the draft rather than overpay and hurt the cap.  Reasoning is simple...in either scenario, I better be able to draft well as a GM.  So I think personally, if I am tying my future success to drafting well, I would rather do so with better draft slot and more cap flexibility.  So tearing it down and taking a step back to be able to finally break through 2 to 3 years later sounds better than just being a middling team for 3 or 4 years that leads me to getting fired. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

[Rigotz]

37 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You shouldn’t overpay Qbs.  Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but look at the league now.  Lamar won a MVP in his 2nd season.  So did Mahomes. Joe Burrow, a good but not generational prospect, is on pass for 4,600 yards as a rookie!  Justin Herbert, who no one thought was close to an elite prospect, is at pace that if he started 16 games, he would throw for 5,000 yards.

 

fact is Qbs are completely overpaid and qb’s 2nd contracts kill your ability to build a roster.  It has never been easier to pay qb in the NFL and college guys translate easier than ever.  Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (Seattle kinda sucks minus Wilson but he carries the team; Mahomes; Brady; Rodgers) but too many replaceable guys get paid too much.  Also if teams stopped handing out monster to Deals to average talents like Goff and Tannehill (during Miami), it would bring the salaries down.  
 

And for the record, I’m totally down with every player getting every cent they can.  But these contracts murder franchises.  

 

This is quite possibly the worst take ever. 

The #1 priority for every single NFL franchise is to draft a great QB and keep him until he retires.

I just looked at the last 20 years of Super Bowl winners and 17 of them had a good veteran Franchise QB at the helm.

 

Bad take.

[costrovs]

They should re-do the salary cap formula and have it more performance based, not just QB, but every position. If you want that money, you actually have to earn it every year. Make the contracts 90% performance based. No more overpaying or underpaying. Keep it simple, Positional base pay, and everything else is performance based, league wide. Plus bonuses for winning games, making the playoffs, and end of the year record. There's plenty of people in this in this country living on less than 100K a year. I'm damn sure these players can live just fine on a 3M-5M a year base pay contracts.

[PetermansRedemption]

33 minutes ago, nucci said:

Don't overpay anyone

Make this guy GM