Bills have 3 of top 15 highest rated pass rushers

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Haha. I am harsh on him. He does occasionally provide a bit of pass rush. But he a disaster in the run game and inconsistent as an edge rusher. If the Bills were paying him a couple of mil per year he would annoy me less.

 

Yea pocket pushers matter as much as guys who actually get home. The other issue our D has had though is adjusting to teams going heavy PA against us. We are still doing a good job forcing the QB off his spot of out of timing in the conventional dropback (not quite as good as in past years but a decent job)…. where we are really struggling to cover is off play action.

 

And misdirection....it has killed us...players running wide open in ways that don't make no sense.

[transplantbillsfan]

Sure doesn't seem like it

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is curious because we learned in another post that the Bills were rated dead last in hurry percentage.  

 

Our DE's are winning their battles but not hurrying the QB.  Odd.  

 

It is odd...the only thing I can think of is the QBs are getting rid of the ball quickly before the player can get there...this would statistically make sense since the Bills average depth of target against them is 2nd lowest in the NFL at 6.8 yards...so the average pass travels under 7 yards in the air to the receiver...doesn't take a lot of time to hit a player that close to the LOS...

[Weatherman]

4 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

per PFF
 

 

 

8. Jerry Hughes - 81.6
13. Mario Addison - 77.0
14. Trent Murphy - 76.9

 

 

Pass win rate top 5. Hughes number 1

 

 

1. Hughes 31.3%
2. T.J. Watt 30.3%
3. Grady Jarrett 28.2%
4. Brian Burns 28.1%
5. Myles Garrett 27.7%

 

other Bills in pass win rate 

 

 

 

45. Quinton Jefferson 14.6%
62. Ed Oliver 11.6%
67. Mario Addison 11.1%

What constitutes a pass win rate?  If the tackle forces you to the outside and the web steps up into the pocket I don’t see how that’s a win.  

[Da webster guy]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

But...but...but....Hughes is old and sucks I thought??

 

They were all over the Raiders in the 2nd half too...Carr was running for his life

 

I was just commenting last week that I thought Hughes looked slower and ineffective this year.

Astro posted some data and cleared that up, and then Jerry did the same on game day.

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

You raise an excellent point and I like your humor.  I don't believe everything I read.  Most fans only look at sacks.  Hits, hurries, tipped passes, runs from the pocket, throw aways, some other incomplete passes, and o-line penalties are all part of it.  Even with this recognition, I would like to see more from the DE position on running plays.  As fans, we're just greedy...lol.

That’s all fair.  And for what it’s worth I’m mostly down on the LBs and IDL.  The DEs have been doing their jobs for the most part.  I’d like to see them sack the QB more often, but Hughes has played well and I’ve seen solid play overall. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So there isn't a very good defense in the NFL then.

 

Strange conclusion, but the obvious answer is: "of course there are".  Because the Bills can't keep PPG avg for their non-Jets schedule under 30, then no one can?  No very good Defenses exist?  

 

Miami, LV, LA are not top 10 Offenses in points scored (Bills gave up 28ppg).  KC and Tenn are (Bills gave up 42 and 26).  

 

The Ravens  have kept 2 top 10 teams to 20 and 6 points.  Steelers held 2 top 10's to 24 and 7 points.  TB held 2 top 10's to 23 and 10.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

I could maybe believe Hughes and Addison were 14-15 but Murphy anywhere in that conversation is just faulty formulas.

[GoBills808]

One of the reasons this doesn't mean much is because whatever PFF thinks they're measuring by 'pass rush win%' is a lot less important in this scheme 

 

For a website that prides itself on analytics they do not have a strong grasp on dependent variables

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Hughes can disrupt but he can't finish. I don't know why. 

 

 

[Luka]

Cool now how are they against the run? Oh that's right...

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Strange conclusion, but the obvious answer is: "of course there are".  Because the Bills can't keep PPG avg for their non-Jets schedule under 30, then no one can?  No very good Defenses exist?  

 

Miami, LV, LA are not top 10 Offenses in points scored (Bills gave up 28ppg).  KC and Tenn are (Bills gave up 42 and 26).  

 

The Ravens  have kept 2 top 10 teams to 20 and 6 points.  Steelers held 2 top 10's to 24 and 7 points.  TB held 2 top 10's to 23 and 10.

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying.  These rankings adjust a lot.  The Bills were at one point #2 in scoring after 4 weeks.  Does that mean we are legitimately a top elite scoring team still now?

The Browns ppg is skewed because they played Dallas and put up 49, faced the Bengals twice and the Washington football team.

When they faced real competition, they got destroyed.  In 2 games against the Steelers and Ravens....they were outscored 76-13.  

 

Let me ask you this.  If the Steelers threw 2 INT's that brought the Titans to the redzone, fumbled a kickoff at the 16 and allowed a 50 yard punt return....do you think their defense keeps TN at 24 points?  The Steelers were up 27-7 in the 3rd at one point and the defense allowed the Titans back in the game.

 

 

The Ravens most true test was the Chiefs....allowed 34.  They allowed 28 to the Eagles.  Who else have they had?  The Browns, WFT, Texans and Bengals.

 

If the Ravens and Steelers played the same schedule as the Bills, their defense will be scored on.  

What's funny is people say the Bills defense wasn't that good last year because of the competition.  But that doesn't apply to other teams it seems like.

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Butbutbut....they suck and they're overpaid....

 

I have actually been OK (see not happy, but not angry like a lot of other posters) with Hughes, and to a lesser extent Addison. Our bigger issue has been DT and LB which has been 2 fold.
1. Per Joe B. in the Athletic, we have Oliver lining up at 1 tech 66% of the time. He is playing out of position, so he sucks at 1 tech and now we have a hole at 3 tech. 

2. Edmunds has been overpersuing a ton! He can hit the hole hard and fast, but somehow finds a way to run right by the RB.

If we could get better play at 1-tech and Edmunds, we would all be much happier with Hughes and Addison. Trent is a bit of a whipping boy. I see him as JAG. If we can save money by cutting him, great, if he sticks around, OK I guess. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's not what I'm saying.  These rankings adjust a lot.  The Bills were at one point #2 in scoring after 4 weeks.  Does that mean we are legitimately a top elite scoring team still now?

The Browns ppg is skewed because they played Dallas and put up 49, faced the Bengals twice and the Washington football team.

When they faced real competition, they got destroyed.  In 2 games against the Steelers and Ravens....they were outscored 76-13.  

 

Let me ask you this.  If the Steelers threw 2 INT's that brought the Titans to the redzone, fumbled a kickoff at the 16 and allowed a 50 yard punt return....do you think their defense keeps TN at 24 points?  The Steelers were up 27-7 in the 3rd at one point and the defense allowed the Titans back in the game.

 

 

The Ravens most true test was the Chiefs....allowed 34.  They allowed 28 to the Eagles.  Who else have they had?  The Browns, WFT, Texans and Bengals.

 

If the Ravens and Steelers played the same schedule as the Bills, their defense will be scored on.  

What's funny is people say the Bills defense wasn't that good last year because of the competition.  But that doesn't apply to other teams it seems like.

I was using current data.  Week 2 data has little meaning.

 

my point is the Bills are not a very good Defense...except against the Jets.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Weatherman said:

What constitutes a pass win rate?  If the tackle forces you to the outside and the web steps up into the pocket I don’t see how that’s a win.  

I can appreciate analytics but the people rating this stuff have no idea what plays call or the design of the play.  Like it could be a screen pass and the OT is supposed to let the d linemen past them, but on film, it looks the d linemen smoked them.

 

analytics definitely serves a purpose but it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.  This hasn’t been a good pass rushing team. 

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I was using current data.  Week 2 data has little meaning.

 

my point is the Bills are not a very good Defense...except against the Jets.

If the Bills D played like they did in the 2nd half last week, they would give up 8 yards a game!!! 😏  That isn’t a good defense to you???

[TBBills]

8 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

per PFF
 

 

 

8. Jerry Hughes - 81.6
13. Mario Addison - 77.0
14. Trent Murphy - 76.9

 

 

Pass win rate top 5. Hughes number 1

 

 

1. Hughes 31.3%
2. T.J. Watt 30.3%
3. Grady Jarrett 28.2%
4. Brian Burns 28.1%
5. Myles Garrett 27.7%

 

other Bills in pass win rate 

 

 

 

45. Quinton Jefferson 14.6%
62. Ed Oliver 11.6%
67. Mario Addison 11.1%

I am not supposed to believe anything from PFF...

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I was using current data.  Week 2 data has little meaning.

 

my point is the Bills are not a very good Defense...except against the Jets.

Raiders certainly lit it up against us.  And since they put up 40 against the Chiefs....how bad is their defense?

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

More proof that stats are meaningless

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

It’s the DT’s and LBs that are killing us.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 

You also have to bring into account that Oliver has been playing a lot of 1Tech.

 

 

 

... and has been playing injured.

 

 

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I can appreciate analytics but the people rating this stuff have no idea what plays call or the design of the play.  Like it could be a screen pass and the OT is supposed to let the d linemen past them, but on film, it looks the d linemen smoked them.

 

 

 

It isn't all that difficult to diagnose a screen pass even if it's not thrown. The QB will look at it and the RB/WR/TE will be trying to find space and looking back at him, and some linemen will be getting out in front of it.

 

People over-estimate how difficult it is to watch film. It's pretty easy. It's mostly very very easy. That's not what coaches do that brings them the big bucks.  The hard part of what they do is trying to figure out what the opponent will do before they do it. That's the stuff that's tough. Figuring out what they did after they did it, when you have film, just isn't all that difficult generally.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Thurman#1