D-Line Contracts (good news?)

[Rigotz]

We obviously don't feel great about some of the recent D-Line signings, but I was encouraged by some of the opt-out clauses that can help save us IF we decide to start over.

 

Trent Murphy - $9,775,000 - this comes off the books at the end of the year, no penalty

Mario Addison - $9,968,75 - two years left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $4M penalty

Jerry Hughes - $9,500,000 - one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $2.1M penalty

Vernon Butler - $7,368,750, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1M penalty

Quinton Jefferson - $6,906,250, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1.5M penalty

 

So, as bad as some of these guys have looked, we aren't completely stuck with any of them.

It's  incredible to see that we have $43.5 Million tied up in these guys per year... but we can completely hit the reset button if we want by eating only $8.6M in dead cap.

 

Not saying we should cut every one of these players. I just thought this was a nice silver lining to what seems to be a few bad signings.

 

[GunnerBill]

Jefferson is the only one I'd keep and I'd use him in the hybrid role he was originally brought here to fill. A guy who plays as a 7 tech then kicks inside in pass rush sets. Not a guy who features heavily in the base DT rotation. 

[without a drought]

Star will be back next year on his restructured contract which is a lot more team friendly. Just not sure how the then 32 year old will be after being out of football for a year and a half.

[BarleyNY]

Bills are spending $51.7M on the DL this season and are set to spend $50.5M next.  That’s with Murphy gone (contract expires), Star back and Zimmer restricted but unsigned.  That’s some really poor value.  Spotrac

Edited October 28, 2020 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

10 minutes ago, without a drought said:

Star will be back next year on his restructured contract which is a lot more team friendly. Just not sure how the then 32 year old will be after being out of football for a year and a half.

I wasn’t exactly thrilled with his performance prior to this season and you have a good point about what he might look like next season.  His contract isn’t all that friendly either.  $500k cap hit this season, $7.75M cap hit in 2021, $9.35M in 2022 and $8.95M in 2023.  Dead cap hit would be really rough too.  Link

[without a drought]

54 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I wasn’t exactly thrilled with his performance prior to this season and you have a good point about what he might look like next season.  His contract isn’t all that friendly either.  $500k cap hit this season, $7.75M cap hit in 2021, $9.35M in 2022 and $8.95M in 2023.  Dead cap hit would be really rough too.  Link

If he sticks around for 2021, I would expect them to use the potential out before 2022.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

We obviously don't feel great about some of the recent D-Line signings, but I was encouraged by some of the opt-out clauses that can help save us IF we decide to start over.

 

Trent Murphy - $9,775,000 - this comes off the books at the end of the year, no penalty

Mario Addison - $9,968,75 - two years left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $4M penalty

Jerry Hughes - $9,500,000 - one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $2.1M penalty

Vernon Butler - $7,368,750, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1M penalty

Quinton Jefferson - $6,906,250, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1.5M penalty

 

So, as bad as some of these guys have looked, we aren't completely stuck with any of them.

It's  incredible to see that we have $43.5 Million tied up in these guys per year... but we can completely hit the reset button if we want by eating only $8.6M in dead cap.

 

Not saying we should cut every one of these players. I just thought this was a nice silver lining to what seems to be a few bad signings.

 

 

So lets assume you don't resign Murphy and cut at least two of them.  You'll still have at least  $3mil in dead cap, and a smaller cap and little free money.   You'll have Star coming back at 32 after a full season off and while his contract is better if you were to cut him a pretty big hit there.  

 

So what three players at a minimum are you going to sign with limited money and likely not drafting until at least the upper teens if not lower that is going to actually improve things?

[Weatherman]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

We obviously don't feel great about some of the recent D-Line signings, but I was encouraged by some of the opt-out clauses that can help save us IF we decide to start over.

 

Trent Murphy - $9,775,000 - this comes off the books at the end of the year, no penalty

Mario Addison - $9,968,75 - two years left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $4M penalty

Jerry Hughes - $9,500,000 - one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $2.1M penalty

Vernon Butler - $7,368,750, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1M penalty

Quinton Jefferson - $6,906,250, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1.5M penalty

 

So, as bad as some of these guys have looked, we aren't completely stuck with any of them.

It's  incredible to see that we have $43.5 Million tied up in these guys per year... but we can completely hit the reset button if we want by eating only $8.6M in dead cap.

 

Not saying we should cut every one of these players. I just thought this was a nice silver lining to what seems to be a few bad signings.

 

Jerry Hughes has no business being on that list just like all the others on it have no business being on this roster. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

I wasn’t exactly thrilled with his performance prior to this season and you have a good point about what he might look like next season.  His contract isn’t all that friendly either.  $500k cap hit this season, $7.75M cap hit in 2021, $9.35M in 2022 and $8.95M in 2023.  Dead cap hit would be really rough too.  Link

 

 

Star has done his job consistently, and has proved to be a very good signing. He'll be here the whole length of his contract unless they manage to draft at least one excellent space eating 1-tech.

 

And the defense will be "unexplainably" better.

 

The reason the dead cap hit is large is that the Bills, in exchange for the $1.75 mill cut from his $50 mill salary, guaranteed a year and a half of his salary. They did this because they want him here.

[Hebert19]

This is exactly what beans and McDermott have done since they have been here.  Sign vets that fit and that we don't need to commit to long term in order to keep cap managed.  

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Bills are spending $51.7M on the DL this season and are set to spend $50.5M next.  That’s with Murphy gone (contract expires), Star back and Zimmer restricted but unsigned.  That’s some really poor value.  Spotrac

They were hoping Harrison Phillips can come back and play at a very high level. 

 

[kkim0904]

It is no brainer, Addison, Hughes and Jefferson is keeper.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Rigotz said:

We obviously don't feel great about some of the recent D-Line signings, but I was encouraged by some of the opt-out clauses that can help save us IF we decide to start over.

 

Trent Murphy - $9,775,000 - this comes off the books at the end of the year, no penalty

Mario Addison - $9,968,75 - two years left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $4M penalty

Jerry Hughes - $9,500,000 - one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $2.1M penalty

Vernon Butler - $7,368,750, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1M penalty

Quinton Jefferson - $6,906,250, one year left after this year, but we can terminate his contract with only $1.5M penalty

 

So, as bad as some of these guys have looked, we aren't completely stuck with any of them.

It's  incredible to see that we have $43.5 Million tied up in these guys per year... but we can completely hit the reset button if we want by eating only $8.6M in dead cap.

 

Not saying we should cut every one of these players. I just thought this was a nice silver lining to what seems to be a few bad signings.

 

I am as not upset with the DL situation and the production of our FA’s as anybody. But we can’t just drop them all because money, contracts, and production. We HAVE to have planned upgrades, not just say “the draft and FA”. 
 

Murphy, Addison, Hughes leaves exactly zero starting DE on the roster. You probably keep Hughes and Addison one more year. Jefferson probably gets cut with Murphy. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So lets assume you don't resign Murphy and cut at least two of them.  You'll still have at least  $3mil in dead cap, and a smaller cap and little free money.   You'll have Star coming back at 32 after a full season off and while his contract is better if you were to cut him a pretty big hit there.  

 

So what three players at a minimum are you going to sign with limited money and likely not drafting until at least the upper teens if not lower that is going to actually improve things?

 

I have a feeling that the swing and a miss in all that cash on the DL from last off season will be a problem that will take a few years to rebound. It’s a Beane failure compounded by some uncertainty around what to/if you pay Edmunds/Milano plus a new Allen contract. 
 

Cash to performance wise, this DL sort of reminds me of the Walker Dockery signings from like 15 years ago. 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

I am as not upset with the DL situation and the production of our FA’s as anybody. But we can’t just drop them all because money, contracts, and production. We HAVE to have planned upgrades, not just say “the draft and FA”. 
 

Murphy, Addison, Hughes leaves exactly zero starting DE on the roster. You probably keep Hughes and Addison one more year. Jefferson probably gets cut with Murphy. 

Epenesa 

[Mango]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Epenesa 

Sorry I meant to say starting experience. But to the over all point, I wouldn’t feel comfortable at all if AJE was our only DE on the roster. 

[JGMcD2]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I have a feeling that the swing and a miss in all that cash on the DL from last off season will be a problem that will take a few years to rebound. It’s a Beane failure compounded by some uncertainty around what to/if you pay Edmunds/Milano plus a new Allen contract. 
 

Cash to performance wise, this DL sort of reminds me of the Walker Dockery signings from like 15 years ago. 

How is it going to be a problem that takes a few year to rebound? The post laid out there's fairly minimal dead cap when compared to the savings from releasing certain players.

It's nothing like the Walker and Dockery signings at all. 

 

EDIT: Re: Walker and Dockery

 

Maybe performance wise, but not in the sense that it's going to handicap the franchise. Dead money is normal.

Edited October 29, 2020 by JGMcD2

[ganesh]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

I am as not upset with the DL situation and the production of our FA’s as anybody. But we can’t just drop them all because money, contracts, and production. We HAVE to have planned upgrades, not just say “the draft and FA”. 
 

Murphy, Addison, Hughes leaves exactly zero starting DE on the roster. You probably keep Hughes and Addison one more year. Jefferson probably gets cut with Murphy. 

Actually Jefferson has stepped up the past 2-3 games...Addison on the other hand has completely disappeared. 

[billsfan89]

Butler to me is an easy cut, Addision might be worth a restructure to save some money and depending on how he finishes the season Hughes might be a guy who could rework his deal. Jefferson is a good rotational player easy keep on the roster for at least one more year. Honestly the great thing about Beane's salary cap management is that he almost always avoids getting the team bogged down in contracts that carry steep penalties. Pretty much every deal he signs carries either a low penalty or no penalty for the following season. It keeps the roster and cap situation flexible. 

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Sorry I meant to say starting experience. But to the over all point, I wouldn’t feel comfortable at all if AJE was our only DE on the roster. 

 

I personally am OK with Addison as the second DE, he is a quality player just not a "war daddy" front line pass rusher that you need. He should finish the season with 8ish sacks despite not really having a top line guy opposite him. I am also OK with Hughes as a rotational DE depending on how he finishes the season and if he is willing to take a restructuring. Then you have AJ as a young up and coming guy in the rotation. Overall I think the DE situation is kind of a mixed bag. You have some solid players in Hughes and Addision but both are older and likely overpaid. Then you have AJ, who I think is a nice prospect but not much else. It's in flux and a big acquisition is definitely needed, even if you restructure Hughes and keep Addision. 

[ProcessTruster]

 

Just now, ProcessTruster said:

Star opting out really hurt , with Shaq leaving.  They were the big strong guys on the DL on 1st/2nd down.   Those kind of guys don't grow on trees.   Can't draft them, bc college teams don't have them.   They need to be grown over time in the NFL.   So, yeah, you either pay up (1st / 2nd rounder) to get a guy now, or wait for Star to return.  Dontare Poe seems the only candidate , and he's 40 lbs overweight and not a young guy either?   

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by ProcessTruster