Sean McDermott is the 2nd Best Coach in Bills History

[Mr. Wonderful]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:13 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

........going to be the best coach in Bills History.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i hope.

 

Will need to win superbowl for that distinction which no Bills coach has done...ever.  

[longtimebillsfan]

On 10/27/2020 at 7:00 PM, Freddie's Dead said:

Wade Phillips was dogmeat, Lou Saban sucked, clearly.

Lou Saban is the only Bills coach to lead them to a championship.  Two in fact.  He also had the Bills 1 game away from playing in the first Superbowl (actually called the NFL/AFL Championship game)

 

He also turned around a joke of a franchise in the early 70's.  You know not of what you speak.

[LB48]

55 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Lou Saban is the only Bills coach to lead them to a championship.  Two in fact.  He also had the Bills 1 game away from playing in the first Superbowl (actually called the NFL/AFL Championship game)

 

He also turned around a joke of a franchise in the early 70's.  You know not of what you speak.

Lou wasn't the HC the season of the 1st Super Bowl.  He quit like he did so many times before. 

[longtimebillsfan]

30 minutes ago, LB48 said:

Lou wasn't the HC the season of the 1st Super Bowl.  He quit like he did so many times before. 

You got me there. But all the rest is accurate.  He did leave twice. But he was still one of the most successful coaches the Bills have ever had. His record was 68-45-4.  

Edited October 31, 2020 by longtimebillsfan

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Lou Saban is the only Bills coach to lead them to a championship.  Two in fact.  He also had the Bills 1 game away from playing in the first Superbowl (actually called the NFL/AFL Championship game)

 

He also turned around a joke of a franchise in the early 70's.  You know not of what you speak.

 

Did you not see the sarcasm font?  

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

You got me there. But all the rest is accurate.  He did leave twice. But he was still one of the most successful coaches the Bills have ever had. His record was 68-45-4.  

 

My friend, he’s just trying to tweak you like he does to others.  Saban was our best coach as you’re right, he won our only two AFL Championships, but he’s correct he left the year of the first AFL/NFL championship game.  This is before my time, but my father thought if Ralph didn’t run off Saban, they probably would have won that third AFL championship and went to the 1st SB.  He did say, he never thought we could have competed well against Lombardi and GB.  My top in order are:

 

Saban

Marv

Knox

McD.

Wade

 

Wade put together the best defense the Bills ever placed on the field although Butler sold the farm and placed us in cap hell.  McD can keep climbing the ladder, but I’d want to wait a few years.  He is under contract through 2025, so you would think by then he will have taken us deep in the playoffs multiple times and won the East a few times starting this year.

[longtimebillsfan]

41 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

My friend, he’s just trying to tweak you like he does to others.  Saban was our best coach as you’re right, he won our only two AFL Championships, but he’s correct he left the year of the first AFL/NFL championship game.  This is before my time, but my father thought if Ralph didn’t run off Saban, they probably would have won that third AFL championship and went to the 1st SB.  He did say, he never thought we could have competed well against Lombardi and GB.  My top in order are:

 

Saban

Marv

Knox

McD.

Wade

 

Wade put together the best defense the Bills ever placed on the field although Butler sold the farm and placed us in cap hell.  McD can keep climbing the ladder, but I’d want to wait a few years.  He is under contract through 2025, so you would think by then he will have taken us deep in the playoffs multiple times and won the East a few times starting this year.

My bad.  I missed the sarcastic font.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

After remembering his plan to use Simpson as a 'decoy', I fully expect the Johnson brothers to be conducting seances to have John Rauch named next coach of the New Jersey Jets. 🙄

 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Skins were the best team the Bills played in those SB's........they would have kicked the ***** out of both of those Cowboys teams.

 

But they weren't even more talented than the Bills.............the Skins were just that much better coached, prepared and focused.

 

They were a team on a mission..........the Bills were a bunch of talented football players with a bunch of different agendas loosely assembled around a soft HC and poor coaching staff.

 

As I said the two best performers in that SB were journeyman players...........Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia.

 

As for the Cowboys just being too fast for the Bills..........well the Bills were faster than the Skins on both sides of the ball and special teams........didn't matter because they executed and the Bills did not.

 

Saying the Cowboys were "twice as talented" as the Bills roster is ridiculous.

 

Again.......start with the Bills fielding 5 HOF'ers to the Cowboys 4.............then look at the other players.........those two rosters were closely matched and in many cases the Bills players had longer and much more productive careers than their Cowboys counterparts.

 

It's easy to forget how long guys like Phil Hansen and Henry Jones and Marcus Patton started and played really well in the NFL.   I really don't get your contention that the Bills were no comparison to the talent of the Redskins and Cowboys in those two SB's.    

 

They flat out choked and played far below their talent level in those games.   

 

Hell, they were 12-0 against the NFC in the regular season during that SB run.........they weren't perfect and Polian deserves scorn for not adding a big NT or dumping Norwood sooner............but being a loosely run operation is why they lost........their lack of discipline and mental toughness came home to roost in the SB.

 

 

 

 

Totally disagree.

 

Washington had one of the two best QBs in football that year. The Bills had a guy in the top 5 or 6. Washington had an awesome OL, absolutely excellent. To say Rypien turned out a journeyman is reasonable. To argue that he was a journeyman that year is laughable.  Rypien was 2nd in TDs, 2nd in QB rating, 2nd in YPA, and 1st in TD/INT ratio. It was weird at the time to wonder what happened to him because his first four years showed a guy improving steadily and becoming a guy who looked like he was going to be elite for a long time. And then he fell apart. We now know what happened as he's come out and talked about his concussion problems, his headaches, concentration problems and how those stole his career from him. Poor guy is in sad shape and will almost certainly prove to be positive for CTE.

 

You look at guys like Lachey, who was riding a streak of three straight first-team All-Pro selections, Russ Grimm, who is often in the Hall of Fame conversation and Joe Jacoby ... that was a terrific OL. The receivers were excellent, the defense dynamic and tough. That was a great roster. Yeah, Joe Gibbs was a great coach, but the reason they were 1st in scoring and 2nd in scoring allowed was because they were a terrific roster playing as a team.

 

But more, the Potomacs had a terrific advantage over the Bills in arguably the one key area of a football game, which was matchups. They, like all of the Bills Super Bowl opponents, came from the NFC East, a division where if you wanted to win you had to have a vicious, smashmouth run game, a wildly physical straight-ahead pound-the-rock attack, powered by absolutely huge offensive lines.

 

Whereas to get out of the AFC East you had to get past Dan Marino, which meant you had to build your team to pass the ball so you could outscore him and you had to rush the passer and cover recievers. The Bills did what they had to do to get out of that division to the playoffs, but it meant building a team that matched up poorly against the teams coming out the NFC East. It was only unfortunate to us that no other division got there to face us in any of those four years. Those teams would pound it down our throats and our small and quick DL couldn't stand up to a whole game of that, and it also kept the ball out of the hands of our offense.

 

They matched up brilliantly against us.

 

As for Marv he was a fine game planner and a spectacular leader, who had to walk a tightrope with the group they had in that locker room. A great coach who has received a lot of backlash since he proved to be such a bad GM.

 

 

Saban, Levy and Knox as the top three, all great. Then a wide chasm.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Thurman#1

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, LB48 said:

IF Marv and his staff had done ANYTHING innovative in the Super Bowls we might have won a few of them.  No new game planning and a defense that was over-rated.

Not true. They had a great game plan in the final one. The problem was that the Cowboys were a lot better.

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Skins were the best team the Bills played in those SB's........they would have kicked the ***** out of both of those Cowboys teams.

 

But they weren't even more talented than the Bills.............the Skins were just that much better coached, prepared and focused.

 

They were a team on a mission..........the Bills were a bunch of talented football players with a bunch of different agendas loosely assembled around a soft HC and poor coaching staff.

 

As I said the two best performers in that SB were journeyman players...........Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia.

 

As for the Cowboys just being too fast for the Bills..........well the Bills were faster than the Skins on both sides of the ball and special teams........didn't matter because they executed and the Bills did not.

 

Saying the Cowboys were "twice as talented" as the Bills roster is ridiculous.

 

Again.......start with the Bills fielding 5 HOF'ers to the Cowboys 4.............then look at the other players.........those two rosters were closely matched and in many cases the Bills players had longer and much more productive careers than their Cowboys counterparts.

 

It's easy to forget how long guys like Phil Hansen and Henry Jones and Marcus Patton started and played really well in the NFL.   I really don't get your contention that the Bills were no comparison to the talent of the Redskins and Cowboys in those two SB's.    

 

They flat out choked and played far below their talent level in those games.   

 

Hell, they were 12-0 against the NFC in the regular season during that SB run.........they weren't perfect and Polian deserves scorn for not adding a big NT or dumping Norwood sooner............but being a loosely run operation is why they lost........their lack of discipline and mental toughness came home to roost in the SB.

 

 

Hank Jones was a backup in 1991, mostly playing ST. Leonard Smith started. Jones was a good player, however.

 

As for the number of HOFers on Buffalo and Dallas, come on. It’s ridiculous that Nate Newton isn’t in the HOF, and I’d say the same for Erik Williams too given his dominance. Indeed, in that final SB, I literally felt badly for Phil Hanson, who was dominated by Erik Williams like I’ve never seen a player dominated before.  They ran 10 out of 11 plays at him on that 3rd quarter drive. A lot of those guys like Lett and Williams were the among the very best at their position but flamed out (literally, in Williams’ case) because they took livin’ the life too far. But Lett, Tuenei, Newton, Stepnoski, Novacek, etc. were all great players. Darren Woodson should be in the HOF too.
 

I will say this: except for the last SB, where the Bills didn’t party the week beforehand, they were out of control before gameday and that falls on Marv to an extent. As I said above, I think the Bills had a great game plan in the final SB (short passing; recall that Jimbo was 19-26 in the first half). It wasn’t Marv’s fault that Thurman couldn’t hang onto the ball, Hull couldn’t handle Lett, and Jeff Wright couldn’t tackle Emmett Smith even when he had him wrapped up. Plus they were unlucky—how often does a fumble into the middle of the LOS pile get picked up and returned for a TD?  I am not claiming this about the other SB game plans, obviously. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Skins were the best team the Bills played in those SB's........they would have kicked the ***** out of both of those Cowboys teams.

As a matter of fact, the only real game the Skins lost in 1991 was to that Cowboys team late that year at home (12th game), 24-21. So, no. Their other loss was the final game where Jeff Rutledge saw a ton of playing time.

Edited October 31, 2020 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Hank Jones was a backup in 1991, mostly playing ST. Leonard Smith started. Jones was a good player, however.

 

As for the number of HOFers on Buffalo and Dallas, come on. It’s ridiculous that Nate Newton isn’t in the HOF, and I’d say the same for Erik Williams too given his dominance. Indeed, in that final SB, I literally felt badly for Phil Hanson, who was dominated by Erik Williams like I’ve never seen a player dominated before.  They ran 10 out of 11 plays at him on that 3rd quarter drive. A lot of those guys like Lett and Williams were the among the very best at their position but flamed out (literally, in Williams’ case) because they took livin’ the life too far. But Lett, Tuenei, Newton, Stepnoski, Novacek, etc. were all great players. Darren Woodson should be in the HOF too.
 

I will say this: except for the last SB, where the Bills didn’t party the week beforehand, they were out of control before gameday and that falls on Marv to an extent. As I said above, I think the Bills had a great game plan in the final SB (short passing; recall that Jimbo was 19-26 in the first half). It wasn’t Marv’s fault that Thurman couldn’t hang onto the ball, Hull couldn’t handle Lett, and Jeff Wright couldn’t tackle Emmett Smith even when he had him wrapped up. Plus they were unlucky—how often does a fumble into the middle of the LOS pile get picked up and returned for a TD?  I am not claiming this about the other SB game plans, obviously. 

 

 

History is written by the winners, dave.

 

We usually over-rate the skill of the winners and underrate that of the losers.

 

At the time of the Bills runs, their rosters were viewed differently than they are now in light of their losing.

 

The Bills were deep.   Nobody was twice as talented as them.   That's ***** ludicrous. 

 

We look back on players like Mark Kelso and Jeff Wright with disdain because they were the relative weaknesses on the Bills roster..........but they were better players than highlight makers James Washington and Leon Lett who we remember as being big matchup advantages for Dallas because better coaching and preparation put them in places to succeed on those Sundays.    

 

Look at Wright versus Lett.........Wright had 10 more sacks and 100 more tackles in a shorter career playing in a 3 man front.    He was very good at what he did.  

 

Derrick Thomas was a great pass rusher.   Do we throw out his career because the Bills ran the ball down the Chiefs throats and forced Marty to bench a future HOF'er in his prime in the AFC Championship game?

 

The Bills had a whole host of sh*t going on that caused them to lose those SB's..........and frankly most of the issues were related to the stewardship of the team.  Not the talent.   

 

      

 

     

[PUNT750]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

History is written by the winners, dave.

 

We usually over-rate the skill of the winners and underrate that of the losers.

 

At the time of the Bills runs, their rosters were viewed differently than they are now in light of their losing.

 

The Bills were deep.   Nobody was twice as talented as them.   That's ***** ludicrous. 

 

We look back on players like Mark Kelso and Jeff Wright with disdain because they were the relative weaknesses on the Bills roster..........but they were better players than highlight makers James Washington and Leon Lett who we remember as being big matchup advantages for Dallas because better coaching and preparation put them in places to succeed on those Sundays.    

 

Look at Wright versus Lett.........Wright had 10 more sacks and 100 more tackles in a shorter career playing in a 3 man front.    He was very good at what he did.  

 

Derrick Thomas was a great pass rusher.   Do we throw out his career because the Bills ran the ball down the Chiefs throats and forced Marty to bench a future HOF'er in his prime in the AFC Championship game?

 

The Bills had a whole host of sh*t going on that caused them to lose those SB's..........and frankly most of the issues were related to the stewardship of the team.  Not the talent.   

 

      

 

     

I agree with your analysis.  Something was wrong in those SB's.  I blame Marv for just letting the players - play!

[PromoTheRobot]

How many good head coaches did the Bills even have? Saban, Knox, Levy, Wade Phillips. That's about it. Mc Dermott is at least top 5.

Edited November 1, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[ghostwriter]

I was too young to see Saban and Knox — Marv was somebody that I absolutely loved.. McD is still a young buck but he at least belongs in the discussion.. How to rank them however, I don’t know..

[machine gun kelly]

22 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Totally disagree.

 

Washington had one of the two best QBs in football that year. The Bills had a guy in the top 5 or 6. Washington had an awesome OL, absolutely excellent. To say Rypien turned out a journeyman is reasonable. To argue that he was a journeyman that year is laughable.  Rypien was 2nd in TDs, 2nd in QB rating, 2nd in YPA, and 1st in TD/INT ratio. It was weird at the time to wonder what happened to him because his first four years showed a guy improving steadily and becoming a guy who looked like he was going to be elite for a long time. And then he fell apart. We now know what happened as he's come out and talked about his concussion problems, his headaches, concentration problems and how those stole his career from him. Poor guy is in sad shape and will almost certainly prove to be positive for CTE.

 

You look at guys like Lachey, who was riding a streak of three straight first-team All-Pro selections, Russ Grimm, who is often in the Hall of Fame conversation and Joe Jacoby ... that was a terrific OL. The receivers were excellent, the defense dynamic and tough. That was a great roster. Yeah, Joe Gibbs was a great coach, but the reason they were 1st in scoring and 2nd in scoring allowed was because they were a terrific roster playing as a team.

 

But more, the Potomacs had a terrific advantage over the Bills in arguably the one key area of a football game, which was matchups. They, like all of the Bills Super Bowl opponents, came from the NFC East, a division where if you wanted to win you had to have a vicious, smashmouth run game, a wildly physical straight-ahead pound-the-rock attack, powered by absolutely huge offensive lines.

 

Whereas to get out of the AFC East you had to get past Dan Marino, which meant you had to build your team to pass the ball so you could outscore him and you had to rush the passer and cover recievers. The Bills did what they had to do to get out of that division to the playoffs, but it meant building a team that matched up poorly against the teams coming out the NFC East. It was only unfortunate to us that no other division got there to face us in any of those four years. Those teams would pound it down our throats and our small and quick DL couldn't stand up to a whole game of that, and it also kept the ball out of the hands of our offense.

 

They matched up brilliantly against us.

 

As for Marv he was a fine game planner and a spectacular leader, who had to walk a tightrope with the group they had in that locker room. A great coach who has received a lot of backlash since he proved to be such a bad GM.

 

 

Saban, Levy and Knox as the top three, all great. Then a wide chasm.

Thurm, I like it. Potomacs.  I can’t call them Washington Football Team.  Good call.  The Skins were an incredible team.  I was worried before that game we were never going to win it and we’ll you know.

[SirAndrew]

23 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

History is written by the winners, dave.

 

We usually over-rate the skill of the winners and underrate that of the losers.

 

At the time of the Bills runs, their rosters were viewed differently than they are now in light of their losing.

 

The Bills were deep.   Nobody was twice as talented as them.   That's ***** ludicrous. 

 

We look back on players like Mark Kelso and Jeff Wright with disdain because they were the relative weaknesses on the Bills roster..........but they were better players than highlight makers James Washington and Leon Lett who we remember as being big matchup advantages for Dallas because better coaching and preparation put them in places to succeed on those Sundays.    

 

Look at Wright versus Lett.........Wright had 10 more sacks and 100 more tackles in a shorter career playing in a 3 man front.    He was very good at what he did.  

 

Derrick Thomas was a great pass rusher.   Do we throw out his career because the Bills ran the ball down the Chiefs throats and forced Marty to bench a future HOF'er in his prime in the AFC Championship game?

 

The Bills had a whole host of sh*t going on that caused them to lose those SB's..........and frankly most of the issues were related to the stewardship of the team.  Not the talent.   

 

      

 

     

Great post. I’ve always been a huge Levy fan, but those losses were more than just talent disparity. That team didn’t even resemble the one from the regular season in those Super Bowls. Being outmatched doesn’t explain all of the mental lapses, turnovers, and just stupid play on the field. Kelly was an utter disaster in those games, and played a big role in basically handing the game to our opponents. We led the Cowboys 13-6 going into halftime during the last Super Bowl. I realize that doesn’t fully discount the possibility of being outmatched, but the Bills belonged on the same field during that half. The second half showcased us being out coached and our players melting under pressure again. That was the real reoccurring theme in those games.