teef Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 15 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said: Uhhhm, you're some smart guy, right? Exciting, does not mean enjoyable. I get excited EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Happy/Sad is the usual outcome, but excitement (for me) is never questioned. Other than that, I must agree with every other point you have made in this thread. for me exciting does mean enjoyable. do you get excited to have a prostate exam? of course not, because it's not enjoyable.
spartacus Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 On 10/27/2020 at 10:43 PM, 97bills said: Man I’m glad someone said that about marv. I always thought the same thing but was scared to get roasted on here if you say anything about kelly or any of the 90’ bills. But my thing on marv was we should of never lost that super bowl against the Gmen. If marv would of sucked it up and just ran Thurman we would of won that game. Except Marchibroda, Marv haired crap for coordinators mega demerits for keeping Walt Corey around to suppress the impact of Bruce Smith read and react - my ass
BUFFALOKIE Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 6 hours ago, teef said: for me exciting does mean enjoyable. do you get excited to have a prostate exam? of course not, because it's not enjoyable. My point was, do you wait until the outcome of the game is known before deciding to be excited or not? A well played game that comes down to the last play is exciting, win or lose.
JohnNord Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 This take is maybe a bit premature but it’s no inconceivable. Compared to other Bills coaches McDermott has been extremely successful and has done more less
Murdox Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 On 10/27/2020 at 9:56 PM, LB48 said: Sean took over a team that hadn't won anything in 17 years. January 2000 was our last play-off appearance! We all lived through it and it was UGLY. Many players and coaches couldn't make the Bills a winner despite tremendous fan support. Now I see posts about "winning signature games" or if we lose to the Patriots it's a disaster. Crazy and stupid! It's the NFL in 2020 and most teams have a very good QB and can win against any opponent. IMO Chuck Knox was the best coach in Bills history. He took a losing franchise to respectability and back-to-back play-off seasons. He assembled rookies and veterans to build a strong team. IF he got his indoor practice facility, an aggressive GM and a upgraded contract he might have stayed around. Marv Levy was an ORGANIZER! Not a great head coach. He had the best team in the NFL talent wise. He refused to make 'adjustments' during a game and felt the best way to win was to let the players do it. Four Super Bowl losses should fall on him. No game planning and no adjustments. Kelly could only do so much but didn't coach the defense and a lot of his success was due to ad-lib plays and Thurman Thomas. I respect Sean and the 'process'. It's working and Buffalo has a good, NFL competitive on the field each week. GO BILLS! I disagree with you to some extent about Marv. The only one of the four Superbowls where I thought the Bills had the more talented team was against the Giants. The Redskins team the following year, and the two Dallas teams were better teams on paper. Most experts have agreed with that over the years. The NFC was just a stronger conference for many years during that time period. 8 hours ago, spartacus said: Except Marchibroda, Marv haired crap for coordinators mega demerits for keeping Walt Corey around to suppress the impact of Bruce Smith read and react - my ass I have no problem with Wade Phillips as a DC.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Murdox said: I disagree with you to some extent about Marv. The only one of the four Superbowls where I thought the Bills had the more talented team was against the Giants. The Redskins team the following year, and the two Dallas teams were better teams on paper. Most experts have agreed with that over the years. The NFC was just a stronger conference for many years during that time period. I think the Bills had the more talented team in the first 3 Super Bowls. The Washington team in particular was a lot of journeyman and players past their prime. The Cowboys team in XXVII was young and should have been vulnerable to a seasoned and primed Bills team that had yet to be picked on in free agency. The Bills by far had the lesser coaching staffs in all 4 SB's though. The other staffs had to orchestrate the season so that their team peaked for the playoffs and they had teams of comparable skill to go against in the NFC playoffs.........so those staffs had battle hardened teams going into the SB. Levy just had to roll the ball out there against the feeble AFC.........and even then they had some too-tense moments in the playoffs. 2
Matt_In_NH Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 Jauron was the best. He just needed some more time 2
LB48 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think the Bills had the more talented team in the first 3 Super Bowls. The Washington team in particular was a lot of journeyman and players past their prime. The Cowboys team in XXVII was young and should have been vulnerable to a seasoned and primed Bills team that had yet to be picked on in free agency. The Bills by far had the lesser coaching staffs in all 4 SB's though. The other staffs had to orchestrate the season so that their team peaked for the playoffs and they had teams of comparable skill to go against in the NFC playoffs.........so those staffs had battle hardened teams going into the SB. Levy just had to roll the ball out there against the feeble AFC.........and even then they had some too-tense moments in the playoffs. I didn't like calling Marv an "organizer" rather than a great HC. But - after watching so many years of Bills football that's what I think. Getting embarrassed in 3 SB's was a coaching problem. 2
dave mcbride Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think the Bills had the more talented team in the first 3 Super Bowls. The Washington team in particular was a lot of journeyman and players past their prime. The Cowboys team in XXVII was young and should have been vulnerable to a seasoned and primed Bills team that had yet to be picked on in free agency. The Bills by far had the lesser coaching staffs in all 4 SB's though. The other staffs had to orchestrate the season so that their team peaked for the playoffs and they had teams of comparable skill to go against in the NFC playoffs.........so those staffs had battle hardened teams going into the SB. Levy just had to roll the ball out there against the feeble AFC.........and even then they had some too-tense moments in the playoffs. Disagree *STRONGLY* about the Redskins. Their offensive line that season was one of the best in league history (and I think the last healthy season for Lachey, who was hands down the best LT in the league then—and better than Wolford). Plus Wilbur Marshall was still in his prime (29 years old) and a true game-changing player. He had 5 ints as a linebacker, which as you know is phenomenal. It was his best season ever, and he had a lot of good ones. Overall, they had GREAT vets who were decidedly not past their prime yet. Christ, They had Lachey, Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic, Mark Schlereth, and Raleigh Mackenzie on their line, and none got injured that season. All of those linemen were better-than-average to great players. More importantly, they destroyed virtually all of their opponents that season and finished first in offense and second in defense. They were quite literally one of the most dominant teams of the past 30 years. Their average regular season game score was 30-14!!! Bear in mind that they lost the last game of the season because they played backups for half the game. They were basically 14-1, only losing 24-21 to an up-and-coming Dallas team that won its last five games. The three scores in their playoff games were 24-7, 41-10, and 37-24. I recommend revisiting that team. I strongly believe it was one of the best in league history. As for Dallas in 1992, I don’t know where to begin. They played in the big-boy conference and finished first in defense and second in offense. They were *twice* as talented as the Bills that year, who were overmatched by speed at almost every position. And it’s not like jimmy and wannstedt were any fancier than marv. They just rolled out talent onto the field, kept it simple and let talent win out. Edited October 30, 2020 by dave mcbride 1
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Disagree *STRONGLY* about the Redskins. Their offensive line that season was one of the best in league history (and I think the last healthy season for Lachey, who was hands down the best LT in the league then—and better than Wolford). Plus Wilbur Marshall was still in his prime (29 years old) and a true game-changing player. He had 5 ints as a linebacker, which as you know is phenomenal. It was his best season ever, and he had a lot of good ones. Overall, they had GREAT vets who were decidedly not past their prime yet. Christ, They had Lachey, Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic, Mark Schlereth, and Raleigh Mackenzie on their line, and none got injured that season. All of those linemen were better-than-average to great players. More importantly, they destroyed virtually all of their opponents that season and finished first in offense and second in defense. They were quite literally one of the most dominant teams of the past 30 years. Their average regular season game score was 30-14!!! Bear in mind that they lost the last game of the season because they played backups for half the game. They were basically 14-1, only losing 24-21 to an up-and-coming Dallas team that won its last five games. The three scores in their playoff games were 24-7, 41-10, and 37-24. I recommend revisiting that team. I strongly believe it was one of the best in league history. As for Dallas in 1992, I don’t know where to begin. They played in the big-boy conference and finished first in defense and second in offense. They were *twice* as talented as the Bills that year, who were overmatched by speed at almost every position. And it’s not like jimmy and wannstedt were any fancier than marv. They just rolled out talent onto the field, kept it simple and let talent win out. Joe Gibbs was an incredible coach. He won SB's with 3 different QB's. IMO he was the best head coach of that 1980-2000 era. They were clearly the better team than the Bills.......but not the more talented one. The Bills starting lineup featured 5 Hall of Famers........the skins had 2. And many other matchups all over the field where you would take the Bills players career over that of their counterpart on the Skins. They had a talented OL but for chrissake so did the Bills. Gibbs just coaxed the best out of that roster.........he got great football out of guys like Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia.........who on that day they played better than any of the Bills HOF'ers.........but they weren't the more talented players. I recommend revisiting those rosters.
dave mcbride Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Joe Gibbs was an incredible coach. He won SB's with 3 different QB's. IMO he was the best head coach of that 1980-2000 era. They were clearly the better team than the Bills.......but not the more talented one. The Bills starting lineup featured 5 Hall of Famers........the skins had 2. And many other matchups all over the field where you would take the Bills players career over that of their counterpart on the Skins. They had a talented OL but for chrissake so did the Bills. Gibbs just coaxed the best out of that roster.........he got great football out of guys like Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia.........who on that day they played better than any of the Bills HOF'ers.........but they weren't the more talented players. I recommend revisiting those rosters. Badol, if you think the Bills roster, which feasted on weaker competition, was better than the Skins roster, I don’t know what to say. They were far, far, far more dominant than the Bills that year, and at that point in time it was an o-line/d-line matchup league. The Bills’ best defensive player (and the only great one) was hurt all season (knee) and a shell of himself in the postseason. Bennett was quite good, but the rest were poor to middling except for Conlan and Talley (who was not as good as fans remember). They were rolling out a lot of replaceable players on that D (especially on d-line), and the one guy who covered it all up—Bruce—was a non-factor that year because of the knee. Also, you didn’t address my rejoinder to your alarmingly specious claim about the 92 Cowboys. And you, the biggest ‘Canes fan I know! Edited October 30, 2020 by dave mcbride
BADOLBILZ Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Badol, if you think the Bills roster, which feasted on weaker competition, was better than the Skins roster, I don’t know what to say. They were far, far, far more dominant than the Bills that year, and at that point in time it was an o-line/d-line matchup league. The Bills’ best defensive player (and the only great one) was hurt all season (knee) and a shell of himself in the postseason. Bennett was quite good, but the rest were poor to middling except for Conlan and Talley (who was not as good as fans remember). They were rolling out a lot of replaceable players on that D (especially on d-line), and the one guy who covered it all up—Bruce—was a non-factor that year because of the knee. Also, you didn’t address my rejoinder to your alarmingly specious claim about the 92 Cowboys. And you, the biggest ‘Canes fan I know! The Skins were the best team the Bills played in those SB's........they would have kicked the ***** out of both of those Cowboys teams. But they weren't even more talented than the Bills.............the Skins were just that much better coached, prepared and focused. They were a team on a mission..........the Bills were a bunch of talented football players with a bunch of different agendas loosely assembled around a soft HC and poor coaching staff. As I said the two best performers in that SB were journeyman players...........Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia. As for the Cowboys just being too fast for the Bills..........well the Bills were faster than the Skins on both sides of the ball and special teams........didn't matter because they executed and the Bills did not. Saying the Cowboys were "twice as talented" as the Bills roster is ridiculous. Again.......start with the Bills fielding 5 HOF'ers to the Cowboys 4.............then look at the other players.........those two rosters were closely matched and in many cases the Bills players had longer and much more productive careers than their Cowboys counterparts. It's easy to forget how long guys like Phil Hansen and Henry Jones and Marcus Patton started and played really well in the NFL. I really don't get your contention that the Bills were no comparison to the talent of the Redskins and Cowboys in those two SB's. They flat out choked and played far below their talent level in those games. Hell, they were 12-0 against the NFC in the regular season during that SB run.........they weren't perfect and Polian deserves scorn for not adding a big NT or dumping Norwood sooner............but being a loosely run operation is why they lost........their lack of discipline and mental toughness came home to roost in the SB.
LB48 Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Joe Gibbs was an incredible coach. He won SB's with 3 different QB's. IMO he was the best head coach of that 1980-2000 era. They were clearly the better team than the Bills.......but not the more talented one. The Bills starting lineup featured 5 Hall of Famers........the skins had 2. And many other matchups all over the field where you would take the Bills players career over that of their counterpart on the Skins. They had a talented OL but for chrissake so did the Bills. Gibbs just coaxed the best out of that roster.........he got great football out of guys like Mark Rypien and Kurt Gouveia.........who on that day they played better than any of the Bills HOF'ers.........but they weren't the more talented players. I recommend revisiting those rosters. IF Marv and his staff had done ANYTHING innovative in the Super Bowls we might have won a few of them. No new game planning and a defense that was over-rated.
Big Turk Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/27/2020 at 10:43 PM, 97bills said: Man I’m glad someone said that about marv. I always thought the same thing but was scared to get roasted on here if you say anything about kelly or any of the 90’ bills. But my thing on marv was we should of never lost that super bowl against the Gmen. If marv would of sucked it up and just ran Thurman we would of won that game. The Bills barely had the ball so they kind of had this false sense of "we gotta make something happen". I mean Thurman was the MVP in that game...the only reason he didn't get it is because the writers legit didn't know you could vote for a losing player.
97bills Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 1 minute ago, matter2003 said: The Bills barely had the ball so they kind of had this false sense of "we gotta make something happen". I mean Thurman was the MVP in that game...the only reason he didn't get it is because the writers legit didn't know you could vote for a losing player. Who would want a mvp after losing a super bowl. And we clearly got out coach in that game with a back up QB. Maybe Allen can get us one ol jimbo just two many picks
BADOLBILZ Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 1 minute ago, LB48 said: IF Marv and his staff had done ANYTHING innovative in the Super Bowls we might have won a few of them. No new game planning and a defense that was over-rated. Hell if Marv just had enough pull to keep them out of the bars all week they might have won a couple of them. They loved Marv because he let the superstars the asylum..........off the field.........in training camp.........in return they gave him the illusion of control so that they didn't end up with a disciplinarian. The upside was that Club Marv was an atmosphere where the players weren't getting beaten up and that helped them get to 4 straight Super Bowls. As fans we would rather that they would have just went 2-0 or something like that...........but so many of those Bills had very long careers and therefore made a lot more money than they would have if they would have been burnt out by Parcells/Gibbs/Jimmy..........so though they got no rings......I think from a player perspective Marv was berry-berry guuud to them.
spartacus Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 6:28 PM, Murdox said: I disagree with you to some extent about Marv. The only one of the four Superbowls where I thought the Bills had the more talented team was against the Giants. The Redskins team the following year, and the two Dallas teams were better teams on paper. Most experts have agreed with that over the years. The NFC was just a stronger conference for many years during that time period. I have no problem with Wade Phillips as a DC. too bad he didn't hire him during the super bowl run
Big Turk Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, 97bills said: Who would want a mvp after losing a super bowl. And we clearly got out coach in that game with a back up QB. Maybe Allen can get us one ol jimbo just two many picks Anyone who watched that game knew he was the best player on the field.
97bills Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Anyone who watched that game knew he was the best player on the field. I agree 💯
GreggTX Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 1. Lou Saban (back to back 1st place finishes) 2. Marv Levy (4 consecutive 2nd place finishes) . . . Last - Harvey Johnson (2-26) 1
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