Sean McDermott is the 2nd Best Coach in Bills History

[teef]

19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No, I expect more.....  I have said too that I'm turing the corner on McD (but you ignore that), but I'm not that enamoured with many things 2017-19 or the record or the playoff appearances.

 

As for Allen, I will repeat again and compare him to Burrow & Herbert, where I'm sure you'll compare him to Darnold, Mayfield & Rosen (and you maybe right or maybe I am)......  My view always was that they were too conservative with Allen and he could have been brought along quicker, which may have resulted in a different outcome vs. Houston.  

 

The fact McD is maybe the olny coach in the last 25 years not to have a QB throw for 300 yards in a game to me is telling.  

again, do you think it was mcd telling allen not to throw for 300 yards, or do you think allen just didn't have that ability to do that yet, (at least safely).  i think some fans just haven't seen a qb developed properly here, and it's confusing.  if they forced allen to win with his arm his first couple of years here, it could have been disastrous for the team, and allen.  

 

houston was a tough one to watch i agree, and i certainly don't absolve the coaching staff, but consider it a learning opportunity.  i expect this team to be a regular playoff participant, so we'll see.  remember, houston lost their two previous playoff appearances before beating the bills.  hell, andy reid would have been considered one of the biggest playoff chokers if he lost the superbowl.  

 

not everything happens over night.  

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He has advocated for the Bills to lose.  That’s all you need to know.

oh i know.  the thought process is amazing.  

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He has advocated for the Bills to lose.  That’s all you need to know.

I never did.  I advocated being entertained watching the Bills.  A win alone does not mean the game was exciting or fun to watch.

 

Too often 2017-19 Bills games were terrible to watch.  Forget the blowout losses.  

 

And actually because you keep harping.  If you are not making the SB or are knocked out the first playoff game & since I invest 16 weeks watching & cheering for the Bills wanting them to go 16-0, I'd really like to have more games that were more entertaining then the many of the games were.

 

I will continue to use the Pittsburgh game as a shining example of a game Buffalo won, but McD did everything he could wrt the offense to make it a terribly bad game to watch.

 

Can add the 14-7 Tennessee game too (along with other wins the Bills had).

 

I you don't get it, I give up.  I am no longer responding to your posts.

 

But keep reiterating this. 

8 minutes ago, teef said:

again, do you think it was mcd telling allen not to throw for 300 yards, or do you think allen just didn't have that ability to do that yet, (at least safely).  i think some fans just haven't seen a qb developed properly here, and it's confusing.  if they forced allen to win with his arm his first couple of years here, it could have been disastrous for the team, and allen.  

 

houston was a tough one to watch i agree, and i certainly don't absolve the coaching staff, but consider it a learning opportunity.  i expect this team to be a regular playoff participant, so we'll see.  remember, houston lost their two previous playoff appearances before beating the bills.  hell, andy reid would have been considered one of the biggest playoff chokers if he lost the superbowl.  

 

not everything happens over night.  

oh i know.  the thought process is amazing.  

And you know that how? Conversely he could have been further ahead, more poised & confident and they beat Houston.  No one knows.

 

And again EVERY COACH IN THE NFL has had their team throw for 300+ yards every year 2017-19 but McD, who wasn't able to do it once.  And not every QB was a HOF'er. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

1964 American Football League Champions

 

1965 American Football League Champions

[teef]

14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

And you know that how? Conversely he could have been further ahead, more poised & confident and they beat Houston.  No one knows.

 

And again EVERY COACH IN THE NFL has had their team throw for 300+ yards every year 2017-19 but McD, who wasn't able to do it once.  And not every QB was a HOF'er. 

i obviously don't know that, but it's a pretty obvious assumption.  we all heard how inaccurate allen was and always would be.  do you think forcing him to throw 35 plus times a game would have been good?  probably not.  each qb is different, and each team is different.  on top of that...300 yard throwing games doesn't matter to anyone except you.  it's not a measure of success in any way, yet you use it to evaluate the coach, and not the qb.  

 

i asked this before...do you think dallas fans were happy with their losses because dak threw for qaudy numbers?  if you listen to around the league, they were not.

17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I never did.  I advocated being entertained watching the Bills.  A win alone does not mean the game was exciting or fun to watch.

 

Too often 2017-19 Bills games were terrible to watch.  Forget the blowout losses.  

 

And actually because you keep harping.  If you are not making the SB or are knocked out the first playoff game & since I invest 16 weeks watching & cheering for the Bills wanting them to go 16-0, I'd really like to have more games that were more entertaining then the many of the games were.

 

I will continue to use the Pittsburgh game as a shining example of a game Buffalo won, but McD did everything he could wrt the offense to make it a terribly bad game to watch.

 

Can add the 14-7 Tennessee game too (along with other wins the Bills had).

 

I you don't get it, I give up.  I am no longer responding to your posts.

 

But keep reiterating this. 

 

and to comment on the bolded...that's just you.  i loved watching the team i grew up with make it to the playoffs twice.  

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i obviously don't know that, but it's a pretty obvious assumption.  we all heard how inaccurate allen was and always would be.  do you think forcing him to throw 35 plus times a game would have been good?  probably not.  each qb is different, and each team is different.  on top of that...300 yard throwing games doesn't matter to anyone except you.  it's not a measure of success in any way, yet you use it to evaluate the coach, and not the qb.  

 

i asked this before...do you think dallas fans were happy with their losses because dak threw for qaudy numbers?  if you listen to around the league, they were not.

It’s about entertainment and not victories with this guy.  If he were a Chiefs fan he’d have complained about the game a couple weeks ago because they ran the ball to do so.

 

He specifically stated last year he’d rather see the Bills lose as long as they had 300 yards passing.  Just really sad.

[Billsfan1972]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

i obviously don't know that, but it's a pretty obvious assumption.  we all heard how inaccurate allen was and always would be.  do you think forcing him to throw 35 plus times a game would have been good?  probably not.  each qb is different, and each team is different.  on top of that...300 yard throwing games doesn't matter to anyone except you.  it's not a measure of success in any way, yet you use it to evaluate the coach, and not the qb.  

 

i asked this before...do you think dallas fans were happy with their losses because dak threw for qaudy numbers?  if you listen to around the league, they were not.

and to comment on the bolded...that's just you.  i loved watching the team i grew up with make it to the playoffs twice.  

No one is happy when their team loses, that is a given.....  But many of the Dallas losses were exciting fun games. 

 

Name me a game the Bills lost during McD's first 3 years thgat was a compelling, exciting game as a Bills fan.  Most were boring games imo, with McD's main goal being to keep the score down and the game between the 20's.... 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No one is happy when their team loses, that is a given.....  But many of the Dallas losses were exciting fun games. 

 

Name me a game the Bills lost during McD's first 3 years thgat was a compelling, exciting game as a Bills fan.  Most were boring games imo, with McD's main goal being to keep the score down and the game between the 20's.... 

I know some of you gals don't like to hear it.  but why do you constantly, constantly put this team down, yet claim to be a fan of the buffalo bills?

 

why?

 

outside looking in, you look like the furthest thing from a buffalo bills fan and more and more like Nancy.

 

oh well, I guess you like to use this board as some kind of therapy, a source for you to complain I suppose.

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I put a lot more stock into turning around moribund franchises......which is why Kox is #1 and Saban #2.

 

Levy fell in just as the Bills were getting to the point where they were too talented to deny success..........and while he did pull it together and manage the personalities.........that was one of his few strengths.

 

Knox turned programs around the way McDermott is trying to do here..........including hiring the underrated people who ultimately helped build the foundation for Polian,  who gets just a little too much credit for the foundation of the roster that made it to 4 SB's.

 

The scope of what Knox brought to an organization was just so much broader than what Levy did at his only successful NFL stop.

 

And let's be honest here........Knox never had a QB like Jim Kelly and his Rams teams were impeded by Roger Staubach and Fran Tarkenton......HOF'ers.  

 

But like I said it's not a GREAT list.

 

Bills have never had a GREAT HC.

 

And fwiw..........Marrone may have got to 9-7 because the Pats were resting........but he most certainly turned around a very sickly franchise and he hired two very successful DC's in two years.  Mularkey inherited a team that was talented and the coaching job he did in his second season was tragically bad.   Marrone never had that problem in Buffalo and he took a team to a conference championship game elsewhere.   I would take that over anything Mularkey and Jauron could spin cobble together.

John Hadl had a great season in 1973 (literally a first team all pro) and was a very good qb (borderline HOFer given the QB stats of that era). The 12-2 Rams finished number one in both offense and defense that year but were disposed of easily in the first round. James Harris and Pat Haden both had pro bowl seasons under him (justifiably based on their stats) and they were a top 5 defense every year (including 3 #1 finishes). He choked in the playoffs. It's why he was fired despite the great record. He could never, ever get over the hump. His conservatism killed him against Landry, who was way more creative. 

 

Also, the Rams franchise he took over wasn't moribund. They had had winning records in 6 of the previous 7 seasons including an 11-1-2 finish, an 11-3 finish, and a 10-3-1 finish. 

 

Also, sure, Levy came into some good players, but the Bills were literally 6-35 in the 2.5 seasons before he came on. They were AWFUL.

Edited October 28, 2020 by dave mcbride

[Billsfan1972]

20 minutes ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said:

I know some of you gals don't like to hear it.  but why do you constantly, constantly put this team down, yet claim to be a fan of the buffalo bills?

 

why?

 

outside looking in, you look like the furthest thing from a buffalo bills fan and more and more like Nancy.

 

oh well, I guess you like to use this board as some kind of therapy, a source for you to complain I suppose.

 

Great sexist response....😡

 

Am I supposed to cheer and agree with everything Buffalo does?

 

Go through all my posts & you'll see yep I pretty much stay on topic......  Because these are the things that most interest me and bother me.

 

1. Was very unhappy with the team & their offense

2. Have always supported Allen and just wanted them to give him more reign and see what he could do.

3. Yep throw for 300 yards sometime between 2017-19

4. Thought the trade of Watkins was ridiculous and helped decimate the Offense and liittle attempt to replace him or help the offense.  Oh yea the 2016 team went into week 16 with a chance to make the playoffs and screwed up terribly vs. the Dolphins (Tyrod threw for 300 yards that game).

5. Disliked McD's Defense only philosophy & play the game between the 20's, close to the vest....

6. Thought the tough talk & The Process is so overblown

7. Peterman experiemnt and then doubling down in 2018 showed how little he knew or was interested in the Offense.....

 

Anything I'm missing?

Edited October 28, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

33 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No one is happy when their team loses, that is a given.....  But many of the Dallas losses were exciting fun games. 

 

Name me a game the Bills lost during McD's first 3 years thgat was a compelling, exciting game as a Bills fan.  Most were boring games imo, with McD's main goal being to keep the score down and the game between the 20's.... 

i find every single win exciting, no matter how it happens.  i'll never find a loss, not matter how many yards or point are scored, exciting.  i think that the difference between you and everyone else.    wins are good, losses are bad.  quantify them if you want.

46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It’s about entertainment and not victories with this guy.  If he were a Chiefs fan he’d have complained about the game a couple weeks ago because they ran the ball to do so.

 

He specifically stated last year he’d rather see the Bills lose as long as they had 300 yards passing.  Just really sad.

i just don't find any loss exciting...ever.

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

i find every single win exciting, no matter how it happens.  i'll never find a loss, not matter how many yards or point are scored, exciting.  i think that the difference between you and everyone else.    wins are good, losses are bad.  quantify them if you want.

i just don't find any loss exciting...ever.

I am happy when the Bills win, I am not necessarily excited and truth be told not necessarily entertained either.  

 

Never been bored by a Bills win ever?

 

Agree to disagree..... 

[BUFFALOKIE]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i find every single win exciting, no matter how it happens.  i'll never find a loss, not matter how many yards or point are scored, exciting.  i think that the difference between you and everyone else.    wins are good, losses are bad.  quantify them if you want.

i just don't find any loss exciting...ever.

 

Uhhhm, you're some smart guy, right? Exciting, does not mean enjoyable. I get excited EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Happy/Sad is the usual outcome, but excitement (for me) is never questioned. Other than that, I must agree with every other point you have made in this thread.

[billsfan_34]

20 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Not even close Marv Levy, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox

Yep! McD has a long way to go. 

[Meatloaf63]

9 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

If using Streength of Schedule the Bills are the one's actually benefitting playing NE 2X/yr or thbey'd be weaker.  Also NE plays the first place schedule.

 

 

How so.....  Brouught up other coaches & the top 4 are pretty much no doubters right now.  McD at 25-23 (now 30-25) without a signature win & a 3-17 record vs. playoff teams is not close & really a silly premise.

It doesn’t make for a good forum when mods are ridiculing posts because they don’t agree. Your thoughts are a lot closer to the truth, but the OP has the right to state his opinion, the board can discuss the merits to arrive at a conclusion...

[DDCC]

This is the most ridiculous comment I heard in a long time.  Here is the appropriate ranking of Bills coaches:  Lou Saban- only coach to lead team to a championship. Back to back. Yes it was the AFL but still a Championship, marv Levy 4 super bows. Enough said,  Chuck Knox. If we had spent money, we would have gone to super bowl, Wade Phillips and then McDermott.  There u fo

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Greg S said:

It was before my time but I would put Saban #1. He was the coach during the Bills greatest era during the back to back AFL championships in 64, 65. After that I would put Knox then Levy as #2 and #3.

 

Saban came back to the Bills to coach from 1972 through the first 5 games of 1976 and made a star of OJ Simpson (in 1973 Simpson ran for 2003 yards in a 14 game season).  In 1974, he got the Bills into the playoffs for the first time since 1966.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1.Knox

2.Saban

3.Levy

4.Phillips

5.McDermott

6.Marrone

 

Right now he is closing in on Phillips, but not there yet, IMO.

 

Phillips really lacked the attention to detail to be a stud HC.......but he was also a "take what I have and make it work.....and build my schemes around the talent" coach......which is extremely valuable.

 

McDermott totally botched his first OC hire and he doesn't adapt his defensive scheme to his players.......he has to have HIS players.   That has lead to them creating unbelievable dead money to clear the decks and then pretty much spending it all again and still not having nailed it.   He is 0-6 versus his top rival and his record versus winning teams is atrocious.......so obviously he is this close to the top because this list kinda' sucks.

 

The Bills have never won a SB of course but they haven't even employed a HC who would go on to win a SB elsewhere as a HC.

 

That said McDermott is so far more organized than Phillips it's not funny.   With the pandemic limiting workouts the Bills are having more injury issues this year but prior to that he had really turned the strength and conditioning department into a huge advantage.   Wade Phillips was totally slack on this and his teams were constantly nagged by soft tissue injuries.

 

 

Lotta love for Knox around here, which I get. But his teams consistently choked in big games, came up flat when it mattered, lost weirdly to bad teams, and fell apart after the strike. To top it off, he bolted after 1982 and did nothing but talk smack about the team thereafter. 

 

 

[PUNT750]

7 hours ago, Greg S said:

I am surprised their is no love for Kay Stephenson and Hank Bullough.

That was an amazing run of lousy coaching!

[PUNT750]

7 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

I always wonder if the Bills had gotten homefield in 1980 then they probably go to the Super Bowl vs the Eagles. They had two bad losses to the Colts that year which cost them homefield advantage. Then that heartbreaking playoff loss to the Chargers in SD was a tough way to end the season.

That loss to the Chargers with Joe Ferguson playing on one leg is one of my worst memories. 

[vincec]

When I read things like this I always think of something that Merlin Olsen once said: that it's a lot easier for a team to go from being bad to being good than it is to go from being good to being a champion. McDermott has done well to get the team back to respectability, but taking the next step will be even harder and we should probably wait to see if he can do it before we anoint him the best ever. As was previous posted, Lou Saban won 2 AFL championships and even Marv won 4 AFC titles.

Edited October 29, 2020 by vincec