thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: So Edmunds is playing well? Insofar as anyone on the D is playing well, yeah. He’s not having his best year, as he’s missed more tackles than usual and hasn’t been as sharp in diagnosing play action, but if the question is whether or not he’s getting the job done relative to his role in the D, my answer is yes.
JGMcD2 Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: So Edmunds is playing well? He’s not playing up to his potential by any means. I think everyone agrees with that, there are a variety of reasons why that’s the case. The point of it all is, he’s not playing as bad as everyone on this message board is making it seem. Folks with an eye for film have said he’s been fine, which obviously isn’t where we need to him to be, but the whole sky is falling, he’s useless cut him, trade him, he’s not even good enough to be a backup in the league stuff is just ridiculous. But at some point discussions on this board are like arguing with a 3 year old. No matter how much logic you use, facts you supply and discussion you have... someone is going to just push back because they don’t know any better. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Insofar as anyone on the D is playing well, yeah. He’s not having his best year, as he’s missed more tackles than usual and hasn’t been as sharp in diagnosing play action, but if the question is whether or not he’s getting the job done relative to his role in the D, my answer is yes. He needs to be replaced. Unfortunately the Bills have skimped on Linebacker. They drafted one in 2019 (Joseph) and none in 2020. Alexander retires and we sign Klein. Linebackers aren't worth paying through the nose for, but the Bills should explore options. Because this is the best Bills team in 20 years, and sitting there with an obvious weakness in the middle of the defense because we are waiting for improvement is strange to me. 2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: He’s not playing up to his potential by any means. I think everyone agrees with that, there are a variety of reasons why that’s the case. The point of it all is, he’s not playing as bad as everyone on this message board is making it seem. Folks with an eye for film have said he’s been fine, which obviously isn’t where we need to him to be, but the whole sky is falling, he’s useless cut him, trade him, he’s not even good enough to be a backup in the league stuff is just ridiculous. But at some point discussions on this board are like arguing with a 3 year old. No matter how much logic you use, facts you supply and discussion you have... someone is going to just push back because they don’t know any better. Shouldn't we be seeing some plays? An interception, a TFL, a big hit? He's not the only Bills LB who is a ghost on the field, but wouldn't a competent linebacker help this defense out?
Luka Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Evaluation of players is rooted in opinion. If it wasn't, there would never be a draft bust. So "watching film" doesn't somehow make an opinion of a player fact unless you are his position coach or coordinator and know the play call and know his exact assignment each and every play. 2
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Luka said: Evaluation of players is rooted in opinion. If it wasn't, there would never be a draft bust. So "watching film" doesn't somehow make an opinion of a player fact unless you are his position coach or coordinator and know the play call and know his exact assignment each and every play. Then why are we even watching the games? You can't watch the game and form an opinion of how the team is playing?
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Instead of finding a scapegoat, couldn't it be pointing out a weakness on this team and discussing why that might be? When you say some people, the same could be said about the people who act like the Bills are in this indefinite mode of development for the future. We are fairly good right now, so why not try and figure out what to do with Edmunds? Why are we rushing in to always make excuses? Excuses...let's go through his video chapter and verse- First play is the center getting a free release into second level. Edmunds stacks him but doesn't shed (not a good play, incidentally, to make the case that Edmunds shies away from contact: he hits the center and stones him but doesn't shed him quickly). This play is a good example of how the defensive line is unable to win 1v1...everyone gets singled and gap integrity is nonexistent. The reason this run succeeds has more to do with Klein not processing the Berrios motion presnap gives up leverage to the tackle who leaves Hughes to get hit by the TE coming down on a wham block. I mean...you COULD ask Edmunds to take on the free releasing center, stack/shed him, and make the tackle (not really that easy to do) but you could also ask one of your defensive linemen to win (much easier) or Klein to stay home (his job). Second play is just Edmunds sticking his head into his gap- run fitting which has been discussed. Here you could say he's tentative and gets moved easily. Not really that bad of a play. Third play is Edmunds getting immediately to his gap responsibility and forcing the cutback. He beats his man to the spot badly...doing his job. Allows Oliver to gain leverage and Edmunds actually makes it back to help with tackle. Just a good play overall. Fourth play is bad initial play by Edmunds, slow to process the handoff which leaves him out of position. Still makes the tackle Fifth play is again fine from Edmunds. Taron Johnson is supposed to force that back inside to him (notice Johnson's hand placement on inside shoulderpad of defender, technique was ok but result was terrible) but he peeks inside, doesn't commit to leveraging his defender, and loses contain. Edmunds can't quite make the tackle. Sixth play...Edmunds is clouding middle. That's usually his responsibility when RB leaks out to opposite side. I guess you can fault him for not being able to keep up in coverage with a slot receiver? Still slows him and you have to realize you are being mad at MLB for not being able to prevent 5yard dig to slot WR...that's more a credit to Edmunds' abilities than an indictment against his play. Seventh play I already discussed upthread but this is again Edmunds immediately playing his run fit and Milano doing a poor job of scraping down the line to get to his gap. Very simple concept if you understand what you're looking at. Eight and ninth plays missed INTs...that's why he plays LB not TE lol 12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Insofar as anyone on the D is playing well, yeah. He’s not having his best year, as he’s missed more tackles than usual and hasn’t been as sharp in diagnosing play action, but if the question is whether or not he’s getting the job done relative to his role in the D, my answer is yes. Correct
Luka Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Then why are we even watching the games? You can't watch the game and form an opinion of how the team is playing? Maybe you didn't mean to quote me? I just literally said there are only opinions of how the team or players are preforming. No one here can call their overall evaluation fact as some posters are attempting to do.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Excuses...let's go through his video chapter and verse- First play is the center getting a free release into second level. Edmunds stacks him but doesn't shed (not a good play, incidentally, to make the case that Edmunds shies away from contact: he hits the center and stones him but doesn't shed him quickly). This play is a good example of how the defensive line is unable to win 1v1...everyone gets singled and gap integrity is nonexistent. The reason this run succeeds has more to do with Klein not processing the Berrios motion presnap gives up leverage to the tackle who leaves Hughes to get hit by the TE coming down on a wham block. I mean...you COULD ask Edmunds to take on the free releasing center, stack/shed him, and make the tackle (not really that easy to do) but you could also ask one of your defensive linemen to win (much easier) or Klein to stay home (his job). Second play is just Edmunds sticking his head into his gap- run fitting which has been discussed. Here you could say he's tentative and gets moved easily. Not really that bad of a play. Third play is Edmunds getting immediately to his gap responsibility and forcing the cutback. He beats his man to the spot badly...doing his job. Allows Oliver to gain leverage and Edmunds actually makes it back to help with tackle. Just a good play overall. Fourth play is bad initial play by Edmunds, slow to process the handoff which leaves him out of position. Still makes the tackle Fifth play is again fine from Edmunds. Taron Johnson is supposed to force that back inside to him (notice Johnson's hand placement on inside shoulderpad of defender, technique was ok but result was terrible) but he peeks inside, doesn't commit to leveraging his defender, and loses contain. Edmunds can't quite make the tackle. Sixth play...Edmunds is clouding middle. That's usually his responsibility when RB leaks out to opposite side. I guess you can fault him for not being able to keep up in coverage with a slot receiver? Still slows him and you have to realize you are being mad at MLB for not being able to prevent 5yard dig to slot WR...that's more a credit to Edmunds' abilities than an indictment against his play. Seventh play I already discussed upthread but this is again Edmunds immediately playing his run fit and Milano doing a poor job of scraping down the line to get to his gap. Very simple concept if you understand what you're looking at. Eight and ninth plays missed INTs...that's why he plays LB not TE lol Correct Good analysis of each play, thanks for writing all of that out. Well, I guess we're set then.
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said: Good analysis of each play, thanks for writing all of that out. Well, I guess we're set then. at MLB anyway
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Luka said: Maybe you didn't mean to quote me? I just literally said there are only opinions of how the team or players are preforming. No one here can call their overall evaluation fact as some posters are attempting to do. To some degree I agree with this, but, for instance, some fans called out Sammy Watkins for his lack of production. Well when the Bills declined his 5th year option, isn't that them admitting he can't play as a #1 WR? It's them admitting he isn't a difference maker at that price. If the Bills go out in offseason and attempt to improve the Tight End position, isn't that proof that the opinion that our Tight Ends are below league average is true? An average fan can watch games and form opinions. Are they always right? No, but sometimes it bares out that obvious personnel holes are apparent. Are the Jets bad, and bereft of offensive talent? Or do we just not understand their players responsibilities?
TwistofFate Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Some people seem to think that anytime a guy gets blocked it means he's out of position. T'ain't so. As many have pointed out, the folks who know, like Cover One, and do extensive and intelligent films study say he's starting to get better and that he wasn't in the wrong places and time. It's typical, though. Finding a scapegoat and grabbing the pitchforks seems to be the signature move for a lot of fans on these boards. They've done one piece on him, agreed he wasn't playing the best, but it wasn't as bad as it seemed. They blamed a lot of it on scheme, saying it put Edmunds in tough positions to react quickly. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that offenses are attacking him specifically and putting him in these positions purposefully? While I haven't given up on him, I expect more of him given his draft status, length of time in this defense and type of season he had last year. A first round pick has certain expectations to live up to and thus far he hasn't been the IMPACT player he was supposed to be. The only reason my eyes have specifically been averted to Edmunds is because of Devin White from Tampa Bay. I've watched every Tampa game this year and that second year ILB is literally everywhere on the field blowing up plays and creating HAVOC. He is making impact plays every single game. He's also in a division where he's facing Kamara and McCafferty. Which is no small task to handle for a LB. I'm just not seeing those kind of plays from Edmunds....and it's concerning.
Luka Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: To some degree I agree with this, but, for instance, some fans called out Sammy Watkins for his lack of production. Well when the Bills declined his 5th year option, isn't that them admitting he can't play as a #1 WR? It's them admitting he isn't a difference maker at that price. If the Bills go out in offseason and attempt to improve the Tight End position, isn't that proof that the opinion that our Tight Ends are below league average is true? An average fan can watch games and form opinions. Are they always right? No, but sometimes it bares out that obvious personnel holes are apparent. Are the Jets bad, and bereft of offensive talent? Or do we just not understand their players responsibilities? I'm still not sure what your beef is? Got yourself all worked up.
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