Rewatched the Jets game, not good for Edmunds.

[formerlyofCtown]

5 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Went back to watch Edmunds and the defensive front 7 specifically.  Edmunds was really bad. 

 

Edmunds shot gaps many times and completely over ran the backs where he was more than capable of making stops for a loss. He was pushed around easily by linemen and could get off the blocks. 

 

His play has been questionable but he was really bad on Sunday. 

 

Update:  I made a quick video of the 9 most blatantly bad play from Edmunds on Sunday-

 

 

 

Let him get Healthy.

[JGMcD2]

40 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

So.... how long do we wait then?  Next year is going to be year #4.  It’s nice that he’s young but rather than improving he seems to be regressing.  It’s not just the injury either, we’ve seen missed tackles, poor reads and a failure to get off blocks.  I’m not sure he miraculously bounces back. 

What has been the takeaway?

Cover 1 has made it pretty clear his tape isn’t all that bad. He seems to be hampered by an injury. 
 

He was progressing fine in Y1 and Y2... and now in Y3 he looks bad? Sure, if he didn’t have the injury it would be an issue, but the tape shows he’s doing what he’s supposed to and he’s in the right spot, but he can’t shed blocks which is an issue that has hampered him in the past but he also needs to use his shoulders to do so. Cover 1 states he’s doing his job in the scheme... 
 

You can’t claim regression when a player is hurt... their physical ability is hampered but they haven’t regressed. I’ll bet he miraculously bounces back... but it won’t be a miracle... it’ll be because he’s healthy. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by JGMcD2

[BillzFreak]

7 minutes ago, dpberr said:

They gave Edmunds play calling duties and he's obviously having difficulty. 

 

The over pursuit to me, is too much thinking in executing the play, too much try hard and not enough instinct in predicting and reacting to what he's seeing.  

 

I'd give the play calling responsibility to someone else and see if that helps.  

 

Injury aside, 98% of it is in his head.

 

 

I'm just wondering if Zo was a big part of the growth of Edmunds last year. He just seems like the kind of guy who teaches and without him this year Tremain looks lost and no one is there to sit him down and get him back on track.

[Rc2catch]

10 minutes ago, dpberr said:

They gave Edmunds play calling duties and he's obviously having difficulty. 

 

The over pursuit to me, is too much thinking in executing the play, too much try hard and not enough instinct in predicting and reacting to what he's seeing.  

 

I'd give the play calling responsibility to someone else and see if that helps.  

 

Injury aside, 98% of it is in his head.

 

 

In the Rams game they were discussing the safety on the Rams I think it was John Johnson actually calls their plays for them. 
I thought it was interesting I’ve never heard a safety have that responsibility 

[Process]

Nice work on the video. He really is awful. I don't even want him on the team nexr year as a backup, we need to just move on. Get a replacement and trade him for a late round pick. 

 

He is absolutely useless out there. 

[JohnNord]

9 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Cover 1 has made it pretty clear his tape isn’t all that bad. He seems to be hampered by an injury. 
 

He was progressing fine in Y1 and Y2... and now in Y3 he looks bad? Sure, if he didn’t have the injury it would be an issue, but the tape shows he’s doing what he’s supposed to and he’s in the right spot, but he can’t shed blocks which is an issue that has hampered him in the past but he also needs to use his shoulders to do so. Cover 1 states he’s doing his job in the scheme... 
 

You can’t claim regression when a player is hurt... their physical ability is hampered but they haven’t regressed. I’ll bet he miraculously bounces back... but it won’t be a miracle... it’ll be because he’s healthy. 

Funny because other analysts who also watch each play are saying that Edmunds is struggling to correctly diagnose plays.  He either will be fooled by play action or will incorrectly shoot a gap.  This was the case in the game last week.  The Bills run defense has been terrible and a big part of the blame falls on Edmunds...you can’t deny that

[TwistofFate]

Just watched the KC game again.  Edmunds was directly responsible for two Chiefs Tds.  He got shook by Kelce one time in coverage.  The second time was on Helaire TD run because he was out of position and hesitated to hit his gap.  He also missed an opportunity on an interception...it was a tough grab, but his hands were on it.

[JGMcD2]

33 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Funny because other analysts who also watch each play are saying that Edmunds is struggling to correctly diagnose plays.  He either will be fooled by play action or will incorrectly shoot a gap.  This was the case in the game last week.  The Bills run defense has been terrible and a big part of the blame falls on Edmunds...you can’t deny that

Would you like to cite those analysts? 
 

Edmunds wasn’t incorrectly shooting gaps this week, he was overrunning and struggling to get off blocks... but that was largely cleaned up in the 2nd half...

 

Sure, blame falls on Edmunds for the poor run defense. Not denying that, I’m also not ready to give up on a guy because of a sample size 5 injury riddled games... I also wouldn’t give up on him after 16 injury riddled games, when he’s shown improvement over his first two seasons. It’s just plain dumb... 
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Nice work on the video. He really is awful. I don't even want him on the team nexr year as a backup, we need to just move on. Get a replacement and trade him for a late round pick. 

 

He is absolutely useless out there. 

 

So let me get this straight.  Various people who make a living at football aren't nearly as negative - including his coaches and people who do all-22 breakdowns like Cover-1.  But because some guy on a message board puts together a 1:26 Youtube video he's awful and absolutely useless and you want him off the team for a late-round pick?

 

I'm not saying Edmunds doesn't have bad plays or that he isn't strugging this year - he does, and he is, mostly to shed blocks and some hesitation which allows him to get engaged with the blocks in the first place.  

 

But this kind of stuff "jumps the shark"

[BillsfaninSB]

It will be interesting to see if Beane picks up his 5th year option in the off-season.  Highly unlikely at this point.  But I’m still bullish on Edmunds.  Think his injury is holding him back.  Wishing they would let him get healthy. 

[Codyny13]

Hard to play with confidence if you aren’t confident in your body. I still think he can be a great player for us, but something is wrong. The coaching staff is trying to stick with him to show him they have confidence in him, but it’s hurting the team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Codyny13 said:

Hard to play with confidence if you aren’t confident in your body. I still think he can be a great player for us, but something is wrong. The coaching staff is trying to stick with him to show him they have confidence in him, but it’s hurting the team.

 

Our LB corps have literally been destroyed by injuries this year.  Del'Shawn Phillips - out 4 games now on IR for 2.  Milano - out 3 of 7 games.  Dodson - hamstring, IR'd last week.  Edmunds - playing hurt. 

 

Aside from special teams ace Matakavich and just elevated PS guy Andre Smith, that leaves AJ Klein who trust me, is NOT going to be an improvement on Edmunds.

 

In fact, if you want to start thinking better of Edmunds, watch AJ Klein.  Try to figure out where he's supposed to be on each play and what he's supposed to be doing.

 

 

[947]

Can Matakevich play LB at all? He's played 10 defensive snaps for us this year, and only 16 for the Steelers last year. I know he's slow (4.81 40yd), but he had 493 tackes in college & won both the Chuck Bednarik Award & the Nagurski Trophy. He seems like a guy ideally suited for the 80s-90s NFL, but I'm surprised we haven't at least seen what he can do. He can't be worse than Klein.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, dpberr said:

They gave Edmunds play calling duties and he's obviously having difficulty. 

 

The over pursuit to me, is too much thinking in executing the play, too much try hard and not enough instinct in predicting and reacting to what he's seeing.  

 

I'd give the play calling responsibility to someone else and see if that helps.  

 

Injury aside, 98% of it is in his head.

 

 

Edmunds has been making the D calls since his first game in the league in 2018 and our D was pretty good his first two years, so I don’t think making the calls is all of a sudden a problem for him. I think it’s a combination of factors, from new faces along the front to his injury. 

[DollaBills]

4 hours ago, dpberr said:

They gave Edmunds play calling duties and he's obviously having difficulty. 

 

The over pursuit to me, is too much thinking in executing the play, too much try hard and not enough instinct in predicting and reacting to what he's seeing.  

 

I'd give the play calling responsibility to someone else and see if that helps.  

 

Injury aside, 98% of it is in his head.

 

 

Someone like Hyde is probably a good candidate for play calling

[GreggTX]

I didn't think he had any business playing in the probowl last year either. I'm just not a fan. To me, he's turning out just like Shaq Lawson -- A pretty good backup. I don't see him getting extended to a 5th year. They'll probably give him another shot in 2022 and just let him walk after the season unless he makes HUGH strides. I don't see it happening. After all the snaps he's had, the game still hasn't slowed down for him. I don't even understand how he can't shed blockers with his long reach and strength. It's unfortunate because MLB is a crucial position in McDermott's scheme. Don't look for too much criticism from his coaches though. They typically do not criticise their players in public (with 1 exception -- Dareus).

Edited October 28, 2020 by GreggTX

[Real McClappy]

13 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

A shoulder issue doesn't make you completely miss your assignment unless you're in so much pain you can't think right, and if that's the case, sit him for the year. It was painful watching two interceptions go through his hands. 

Edmunds wasn't even listed on the injury report last week either. Is he actually hurt or TBD/fan excuses at this phase?

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/injury-report/

 

Week7

 

Player	Position	Injury	Wed	Thu	Fri	Game Status
	Josh Allen	QB	Left Shoulder	FP	FP	FP	(-)
	John Brown	WR	Knee	DNP	DNP	DNP	Out
	Jake Fromm	QB	Not injury	LP	LP	LP	(-)
	Dawson Knox	TE	Calf	DNP	DNP	DNP	Out
	Matt Milano	LB	Pec	LP	LP	LP	Questionable
	Tyrel Dodson	LB	Hamstring	DNP	DNP	DNP	Out
	Cody Ford	T	Knee	DNP	DNP	DNP	Out
	Cam Lewis	CB	Wrist	LP	LP	LP	Questionable
	Tyler Kroft	TE	Not injury related		DNP		(-)
	Josh Norman	CB	Hamstring		LP	DNP	Out
	Tre'Davious White	CB	Back		LP	LP	Questionable
	Jaquan Johnson	S	Back			FP	(-)

[Real McClappy]

10 hours ago, vincec said:

This would make a lot more sense if there was anyone remotely decent available to play MLB in his absence.

I snag Alec Olgetree right now off FA and bring him in for a workout.

[colin]

im of two minds on edmunds.

 

he absolutely gets washed way too often.  the rumblings cap of the end zone run to the offensive left where the right guard just shoves him and he falls down, that's basic MLB play.  if he keeps his balance and uses his hands to get off the block faster, he has a shot at a play, potentially stopping a TD.  he also over runs or over shoots w bad angles more than he should.

 

on the other hand, our d schematically has only 2 LBs who for the most part play the same position.  they have to take on blockers and drop back and run upfield w pass catchers, and their assignment has a lot of variance vs say an OLB in a 3-4 who covers much less ground and has much less to think about.

 

the biggest issue to me is our D is this kinda of rubicks cube of every part has to fit with somewhat small tolerances for it to work.  one thing of note vs the jets (and yes, it's the jets) is that even with the rookies and practice squad guys in there (including epensa im happy to say) the d seems to be much much better when it is aggressive, and more guys are moving forward.  aside from just bad DL play for about a month (and that's disgusting because of how much we spend on that) it really seems like being aggressive and gunning for a negative play on the first 2 downs setting up third and long is what we need to get back too.  the 3rd and way longs we have allowed are disgusting, but in part i think it's because the plays called have had the D play on their heels too much, instead of coming downhill and forcing the issue

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I would say no, it's not time to move on. He had improved steadily up until this year, he will be 23 for all of next season...

 

What everyone is suffering from is prospect fatigue... it happens a lot in baseball. Guy is hyped up in the system for a long time, so people get their hopes up.. he doesn't perform right away and because they've known about him for a long time they just think he's a bust and want to cut bait. I promise you it's a mistake with this type of player... he is still learning on the job. 

 

Say we were to replace him in the draft... Dylan Moses would be a popular option. Tremaine is only 23 days older than Moses and has 3 years in the NFL... as much as people don't think that's a big deal... it is. Chazz Surratt, Errol Thompson, Charles Snowden, Gabriel Cox are some of the other top LB prospects and they're all older than Tremaine.

 

I don't think people realize we have a unicorn here.

 

 

I get that he’s still young. But that doesn’t change the upcoming decision on him.  He was drafted 16th overall two and a half seasons ago.  His 5th year option decision is due this upcoming offseason and if that’s declined then a decision on him staying a Bill is due by the following one.

 

Right now I can’t imagine that his 5th year option will be picked up but I can see the team sticking with him through his rookie deal to see f the light goes on.  But remember that the bar is high for him to remain a Bill.  He was drafted 16th overall and the second contracts that players drafted in the mid-first get from their teams are big ones.  We are talking top 5 or top 10 at his position big.   So we aren’t looking for acceptable play or splash plays interspersed with missed assignments and mistakes.  We are looking for consistent and sometimes elite production.  If he is going to stay a Bill and earn that top 5 or 10 MLB deal, then we need a top 5 or 10 interior/coverage LB.  Fans are right to question his play in general, but when looked at in that light he’s so far away from where he needs to be I just can’t see it happening.  We should give him the chance through next season, but we should be looking at contingencies too.